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A Message from Michele
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Re: gan 7 - ants marching [Re: Vanilla] #2587374
07/13/15 04:37 AM
07/13/15 04:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,708
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Zues126 Offline
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Hey Vanilla. To me dating would be anything that I wouldn't do if I was in another committed relationship. To your point, I wouldn't go out with a lovely woman to have a coffee whether or not I felt she 'had a chance'. I could ask a woman for directions, exchange a few sentences should I run into someone I know at a social event, etc...beyond that, I wouldn't cross that line.

As for when I would be ready to cross that line...not for a while. First off, I am still married and I believe that's important. This has been debated at length on other threads so I won't rehash that, although it has since occurred to me that building a relationship with someone that wasn't bothered with my marital status might not be in my best interest. Anyway, status aside, I am not ready to date.

Gan, you very well might be. Just for me, I'm a long ways off.

See, as of 7/12 I feel more 'over' my STBX than I ever have. There is a spooky lack of emotion. I can still vaguely remember having felt differently in the past, but right now all I can think is "that was before you found out who she really is". I can't even imaging wanting her in my life again. Even still I don't trust those feelings (or lack of). Following feelings is what my WAW did that lead us here (and what I did during our M to contribute), I want to do what I believe is right these days.

I don't feel the need to be in an R. This is a big step for me. I remember hearing "if you need an R you aren't ready for one", but as recently as a couple of months ago I was really concerned about my next R. Like I wanted to learn from this and get to the part when I was happily married. Now I am not in a rush, and I think it makes sense to go slowly after a D. To put it another way, I used to do consumer finance and was always blown away at how people that just filed bankruptcy would go out and buy new cars right after their debt was discharged. I was shocked at how reckless they were with their finances, but then I'd remember that's probably why they had to file BK in the first place. So when we just get a D, it's like 'whoa, let's take it easy for a while'.

And while I don't miss my STBX, I AM still sorting through what happened. Shoot, I may no longer NEED a M, but now I'm at the spot where I'm not even sure why I'd want one! I mean, I'm taking care of myself, GAL, all that. I have been working on letting go of expectations and accepting reality. The reality is that my next R/M will probably be very dissatisfying, frustrating, and depressing at times. I still want to be M because I find value in sharing our time on this planet, and showing love to my partner, but it sounds more like a job than a vacation right now- except for the honeymoon period which frankly I'm half jaded about because all I see are the same superficial desires for romance/sexual fulfillment that lead so many of our WAS's to leave in the first place.

To recap, I don't think feelings for my STBX impact me but I don't know if that will sustain or if things will trigger that and I want to be emotion free for a good while before dating, I am still working through what just happened and what I think M is about, and I'm not sure it's even what I want right now because I'm still grieving the loss between how I thought love worked in this world versus the fragile/convenience based love that actually exists. Hopefully a year or two after the D is inked I'll be legally divorced, emotionally stable for 1+ years, have sorted through my R confusion, and will be back on top of my life and feel like sharing it with someone. But that's not right now.

But that's just for me. I take longer than most because I'm pretty analytical and I need to reflect longer on a lot of things. Gan, if you find value in meeting other people then I trust you're in good shape, you know who you are and what you're doing. This isn't criticism or persuasion, just me talking about me and some of the factors I'm dealing with on this front.

Take it easy all and goodnight!


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Re: gan 7 - ants marching [Re: Vanilla] #2587444
07/13/15 02:22 PM
07/13/15 02:22 PM
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gan Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Vanilla
So I ask what is dating? Is it going for coffee or a meal with some lovely lad who has no chance at all or is it being open to a new R if you get the right vibe?

So, funnily enough, V, I contemplaited googling this exact thing. I've noticed that I don't feel like I am dating OMUG for instance...but why is this so? Where is the line?

In response to your above definitions of dating - I am not going to go out for coffee or a meal with someone who has no chance. If my heart isn't open then I'm just not going to put a guy through that unless it's clear that we're both only after friendship. In regards to OMUG, I've been honest with where I'm at with things. It's up to him if he wants to still hang out. Actually I'm just back from dinner with him now...and we had some pretty frank discussion about our current situations. So we'll see what happens next. On my side this is a friends only thing and I have communicated that.

But yes, I am open to a new R if I get the right vibe.


H 37 Me 36
Together 15 years
Married 5 years
No kids
BD Apr 2014
H moved out 2 Jun 2014
Re: gan 7 - ants marching [Re: Zues126] #2587449
07/13/15 02:38 PM
07/13/15 02:38 PM
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gan Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Zues126
To me dating would be anything that I wouldn't do if I was in another committed relationship. To your point, I wouldn't go out with a lovely woman to have a coffee whether or not I felt she 'had a chance'. I could ask a woman for directions, exchange a few sentences should I run into someone I know at a social event, etc...beyond that, I wouldn't cross that line.

I've come to expect nothing less of you, Zues. And I think it is a quality in you that it to be cherished.

On my side, since I have started to feel what it is like to engage with members of the opposite sex again, I've started to question whether marriage really needs to be so all consuming. Maybe it is ok to give and receive what you can to/from your partner, but also enjoy interacting with other people as well - including those of the opposite sex - over coffee? I'm not talking physical needs here, I am talking about other forms of life enrichment. Sometimes my H didn't satisfy my desire to philosophise about things, for instance, whereas other men I've met could have. Should I have refrained from those interactions in fear it would get too intimate?

In some ways, I'm starting to think it is healthier to consider yourself fair game....and thereby make a decision not to pursue others...rather than considering yourself and your spouse automatically off limits.

Provocative thoughts....but something I've started to ponder.


H 37 Me 36
Together 15 years
Married 5 years
No kids
BD Apr 2014
H moved out 2 Jun 2014
Re: gan 7 - ants marching [Re: gan] #2587455
07/13/15 02:48 PM
07/13/15 02:48 PM
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Hi Gan, WFH today and just taking a little break. Interesting debate and a tricky area. Shirley Glass has views on this in her 'After the Affair' book. She suggests that very clear boundaries should be kept on friendships with people of the opposite gender. Absolute transparency. Is this person a 'friend' of the M? Has your S met them? and so on. So for me it isn't about ruling out those friendships, but being very clear on boundaries and standards for myself.

To me, if I start not telling my partner I met someone for coffee. If I start moaning about my R with them, or vice versa - these things are a line crossed. I've had my fingers burned of course. My H started 'lunching' with a group from work. They had a regular lunch club once a week. Mix of women and guys. That then morphed into lunch or after dinner drinks with one or more of the women and then that became an A. Those lines are so easy to cross I feel....

But I'm not commenting on your own choices just now. I'm not dating just now, but in our sitches - a year+ since BD - I don't have a problem with a little light dating. I just don't feel I'm ready for it, you know?


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Re: gan 7 - ants marching [Re: Sotto] #2588521
07/16/15 08:01 AM
07/16/15 08:01 AM
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gan Offline OP
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Toots, I think I always had a similar perspective to you. If I was open with H about who I was hanging out with then it wasn't an issue. If for some reason I felt a need not to be honest, then that meant the line had been crossed. ATM he doesn't seem to give a [censored] about what I'm up to so there is no need for disclosure on my end (not that there's much to disclose). I can see though that it will get tricky if I start dating all the while not intending to file. That's a hard one to explain to another person. I'm starting to ask the question of why I am not filing.

So I added a new GAL activity to my repertoire this week. I signed up for an 8-wk burlesque dancing course with a new girlfriend! We had our first class last night and it was soooo much fun. I can move ok but when I have to combine thinking (about the choreography) with moving I'm a total klutz. Lady V, do you have any tips on how to master this?


H 37 Me 36
Together 15 years
Married 5 years
No kids
BD Apr 2014
H moved out 2 Jun 2014
Re: gan 7 - ants marching [Re: gan] #2588749
07/16/15 07:03 PM
07/16/15 07:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
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Sotto Offline
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Burlesque - ooh la la!! Good for you. I enjoyed the bit of Ceroc I did, but it clashes with yoga, so I haven't been for a while. I also seem to be terrible at remembering the moves.

Yes, I agree it's a funny one about dating and not choosing to file. Fine if things are at a very light level - but if you start to want more? I don't know the answer - only that you are very wise, have integrity and I'm sure will decide on the right path for you.

In the meantime......enjoy!! xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Re: gan 7 - ants marching [Re: Sotto] #2588784
07/16/15 08:24 PM
07/16/15 08:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
UK
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Vanilla Offline
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Vanilla  Offline
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Gan

The only suggestion I have is that eventually with practice comes muscle memory. The same with Ceroc, it's about letting your body learn. I think of the moves as letters of the alphabet, or shapes.

In other words relax and just move. I found it easier to de focus my eyes too. If you remember learning to drive then everything is marionette but after a while the body just 'does it'.

I learned burlesque and pole dancing, it was tough for about 6 weeks but after than, just a great giggle. I also completed a Bollywood class.

V

Last edited by Vanilla; 07/16/15 08:26 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Re: gan 7 - ants marching [Re: Vanilla] #2591104
07/24/15 02:45 PM
07/24/15 02:45 PM
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gan Offline OP
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Well it's been a crazy freakin week. On Monday my research got published in a pretty high profile journal. Since then my former student and I have done several media interviews, including with the BBC. All the while it's been one of my most intense teaching weeks of the year. I'm glad it's the weekend!

At one point in time I could have been accused of being too absorbed in my work. Not so this week. While all the above has been going on, I've been out every single night this week with a different person(s) to a different place.....catching up with an old friend, having a celebratory champagne, attending burlesque class, entertaining a visiting colleague or dining out at a fancy restaurant with yet other friends.

Part of me wishes I could be sharing the excitement of it all with my H. The other part of me just thinks he's a fool.


H 37 Me 36
Together 15 years
Married 5 years
No kids
BD Apr 2014
H moved out 2 Jun 2014
Re: gan 7 - ants marching [Re: gan] #2591106
07/24/15 02:51 PM
07/24/15 02:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,807
Rhode Island
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HeavyD Offline
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Congrats on the journal!!!! So happy for you and for all the GAL that has resulted. Keep up the good work!


Was made a better person by DB'ers
Re: gan 7 - ants marching [Re: HeavyD] #2591115
07/24/15 03:06 PM
07/24/15 03:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 977
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mahhhty Offline
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Congratulations!

Don't fret... He is a fool.


Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2
M - 8/2008
W is not happy - 1/2014
W wants D - 9/2014
W moved out - 11/2014
D filed - 1/23/2015
D'ed - 2/25/2015
Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
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