SunnyB | It's me who should thank you for your openness. I'm glad that you shared your own struggle. You ask how is it that I make it look so simple. I don't have an answer, and anyway it's not that simple in real life, but here are a few thoughts that cross my mind about it.
a) I accept that some relationship might be mutually satisfactory and short term. Is this an option that you might consider or is it important that your next partner have the potential for lifelong commitment? How does that influence your assessment of them?
b) I am building confidence that I can meet and attract the woman of my dreams. My biggest hurdle would be to approach her if we ever meet, so that's what I'm working on, on all fronts: IC, reading, practice. What makes you doubt that you would meet such a person? Any internal hurdles for you?
c) How much do we know someone early on? It is possible to enter certain relationships and let them evolve over time. It is possible and common that we realize we're meant for someone after several months or years. Do you feel rushed in making a decision with this man?
d) What kind of person do we seek? On thing that DB especially has taught me is that we can't fix people. But I'm a fixer and I'm attracted to people who have issues because I want to be the Nice Guy that solves them. As I wrote before, WW had immense trust issues and I came as the white night of Loyalty to her. Some of the women I've met in the last few weeks have their own issues and I can feel myself wanting to be the right guy for them. I'm trying to step back and remember that I can't fix them, and that I should rather choose someone with the right balance. How about the shortcomings of your suitor? Are they deal breakers? Are they a problem for you or for your image with others?
e) It might look simple because I'm the beginning and not yet entangled in multiple relationships with women who think I've duped them and who react badly to my lack of commitment. Joking aside, could it be that you're afraid to hurt others or just yourself?
I'm happy to continue the conversation on this.
Wonka | Nice try
raliced | I think we're on the same page, and so is the author. The conclusion is "For some, there is little innate temptation to cheat; for others, sexual monogamy is an uphill battle against their own biology." So it's not that the genes make you do it, but that cheating might be more attractive to some. It's the same for food, alcohol, addictions, etc. It seems to be a plain fact of biology and mating is so deeply ingrained that I'm not surprised some of the genes would influence our behaviors — among many other factors that you listed and all dependent on our free will.
As for the tests, I'm impressed that you remember your results! I think the "green" one put me almost squarely in the center, but with a tendency to become analytical under stress, which is quite accurate and explains in part why the worst fights with WW devolved into crying on her part and cold logic on my end. One thing that I've realized is that during any fight, the real message is "Tell me you love me" and I promised myself to show more care, which I've applied successfully with the kids.
I'm glad my path is of interest to you and truly appreciate your involvement, although I suspect that more of us are following it, just not sharing it so openly here where it's frowned upon (some have said as much). But it's also part of my therapy to learn to follow my desires without seeking to please others. In real life, I also have to defend that yes, maybe I'd consider taking WW back despite what she's done.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
On Saturday, I had the kids and I was in the swings, in a park nearby. I always loved it and I enjoy singing while doing it — yes, even as a grown man — even though it makes me dizzy for days afterwards. My best friend was there and I told him: "This is a good day" and he replied "Very good", so I said "No, I mean in the grand scheme of my life, this is a good day" meaning not just good by the standards of the sh!tty last nine months. I was very happy to realize that I could not just survive a day, feel not-so-down, ignore my sitch for a few hours, etc. but to really have a good day, like it never happened. Earlier that day, I had a good morning with the kids practicing their biking skills, I had a pleasant text exchange with a woman, my friend had come with his family, the weather was gorgeous, and the plan for the evening was a barbecue. It was just a great day.
So life can be good, not just "good despite...". Know hope.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Hi Mozza, I just wanted to chime in and say I really appreciate you openly sharing your dating adventures here. I find your approach very interesting and thought provoking.
I really like your analytical and experimental approach. It's inspiring me. I myself am not really dating per se, but I am open to meeting people and figuring out what I want for future relationships. But I am having a bit of a tough time navigating these new dating waters. Perhaps I can take some of the experimentation in your approach and apply it to me own situation.
Please keep up the updates! And glad to hear you are doing so well! Hugs, Lisa
CaliGuy | Thanks again for your idea. I went with it and let WW choose the mediator. I'm interested in your stories where the WW turned around at mediation. It seems very unlikely to happen to me. WW does not seem very emotional about the whole thing, simply going through the motion long after her final decision was made. Still, I try to convince myself that I shouldn't come across as dragging my feet, but rather show her that I take the lead for my part, and make her reflect a little on how we both come out of this situation.
Mozza
I felt the same .. especially the last round this March. Granted my wife is full blown MLC so there is a level of crazy one just becomse numb to. Like I said I have been in that Mediators office 2 different rounds, once in Mar13, again this least Mar14. First one I just pulled the typical DB approach, "Its not what I want but I respect your decision" This threw her ... that and I know she was not so sure she wanted it at the time.
The more recent one ... she had started up prior to the holidays and with the way she is she wanted it to be processed for the new year (2015) I got to the point, I was tired of the rollercoaster ... so I honestly did my research and finacially I would be much better off than where I was ... sure it would $uck that my M was done but like I told the mediator in the first session, I am a great father and will fight to get everything I can not for me but for S, This whole thing was not my idea nor did I deserve it .. nor did he. That being said I also feel I am a good Husband and if W needed this to move on and be happy, I want that for her, just not at MY andS's expense.
The pain and suffering I was over, I was living my life and got to a point I looked at myself in the mirror and I know I did all I could to save the M. If I could describe it ... it was lie a movie scene where you have known the person holding the gun to your face your whole life ... I just looked at her and said .. ok .. pull the trigger, if THIS is what it takes for you to be happy .. go ahead.
I had no idea what was going on in her head nor on her side as far as the paperwork ... My side of the street was clean, all docs submitted ... she kept rescheduling the joint meetings (We both completed the single ones) due to either some medical issue, or she had something going on. This went on for a month or two .. then she finally told me she did not want D, she wanted to work on the M and the family ... but she has a ton of things to work on herself ... that gift of time we get .. we are allowed to do the work so I figured I am WAY ahead of her in that regard and she is currently trying to catch up.
Anyways that's pretty much what went down in Mediation for me, I know Nitty had a very similar thing happen, I think my WAS had to know I dropped rope and though I did not want D I was going to be more than good regardless. All the GAL, 180, PMA I did to that point no doubt got me 'here' ... I am not out of the woods yet ... but I am in a much better spot ... even before BD to be honest.
I've really only skimmed through the last couple of pages here. I've not been around much but it really sounds like things are going well for you in your life. That's good man, you deserve it. As I've said before, I'm a huge fan of yours and you really helped me out when I first came here.
Take care mate.
Barry.
Me 40 W 38 T 23 M 21 S21 S19 D16 S14 BD 19/12/2014 D mentioned 27/2/2015. I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
Last night, D7 started to talk about lovers (no direct translation, but obviously not in the sexual sense). She mentioned that WW has a lover and asked me if I did. I mumbled no and busied myself as I was in their room, preparing them for bed time. I think she asked twice before I answer. Then she said that her mom has a new lover and is name is [OM], and... I snapped and told her: "Enough. It's not nice." And she looked at me in silence, kind of puzzled.
I left it at that but now I'm wondering if I should explain to her why I was upset. She's left wondering about something important. I'm thinking of telling her that I'm sad that her mom left with someone else, that it is not something that I like to talk about because it's painful for me, but that it has nothing to do with her.
Should I bring it up or leave it at that?
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Mozza, I'd bring it up, but not for the reason you said. You don't want her to think there are things she can't talk to you about, that's a dangerous precedent to set. You don't need to tell her why you were upset, just apologize for being short and emphasize that she can talk to you about anything. That message is way more important than anything you might want to convey about lovers.
Thats a tough one, and there is a line I think on what we talk to our kids about and what we leave out. Shame D7 knows OM is mommys lover ... shame mommy has made that mistake and exposed D7 to this ... again not much we can do. My S8 also knew, but he did not care for it and the R between him and W paid a price, one she will have to fix .. thats all her and not my circus.
Its a tough question because you do not want to paint W in a bad light, and its a critical point because none of us wants our children to have marital issues later in life due to what we the parents exposed them to at this stage, regardless of who the WAS and LBS are .... but it does seem a bit unfair being the LBS and knowing we have to fight fair while the WAS can paint the M as bad as possible and the 'reason' they just had to leave.
To answer your question, this is just me, I would apologize for snapping and just calmly explain this is not what you wanted for her nor the family but regardless of things outside your control you will be there for her, the rock .. no matter what.
Others may have a much better approach on this, I would just shy away from making anyone out to be the 'bad guy'
I asked D7 if she remembered asking me last night if I had a lover. She said she did so I asked her if she remembered what I replied. She said "Yes" and I gave her a look, so she went for "I don't remember". Seriously! Anyway, I told her that the answer is no (and in fact it will be for several months after I met someone that I envision for the long term). I told her that I got upset last night when she asked, but that it's okay to talk about it. She nodded. End of conversation.
I completely avoided the topic of WW and OM, even though it was the point at which I had told her it was enough. I doubt she noticed. Thanks SunnyB and CaliGuy. Once again, my reaction was inspired by the feedback on these boards and I'm very grateful.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Joking aside, could it be that you're afraid to hurt others or just yourself?