where do I begin?

[twinmom]

So sometime in mid March my H hit rock bottom. Like "wtf has my life come to" kinda thing. He started seeing an IC that specializes in addiction, he did so without me even knowing. He has told me numerous times he doesn't want a divorce but will let me go if that's what I choose. For the past few months I have seen him make some huge changes (without me asking/even giving verbal indication I still wanted our marriage)

He no longer talks to me about his family/pressures me or makes me feel like the "bad guy" in situations with his family.

He makes it a point to tell me how much he respects me for staying at home and taking care of the kids AND bringing in an income.

He talks about work, not just saying "everything's great" but actually talks about what's going on.

He has actually shared his fears with me, this is something he always kept to himself and never showed vulnerability.

He asks to spend time with me and the kids BUT respects my decision when I have said I wanted alone time with them. Or just time to myself. There is no longer this feeling of "he got his way again"

He has asked me, "is there anything I can do to make this up to you and not loose you and our family?"

I'm cautious, it's only been two months tops that he has been seeing the IC. But in that time he has stopped being "pushy" and really started respecting my space/wishes. No more kissing my forehead and although he stays here most nights he doesn't grab a pillow/blanket without asking me if I'm ok with it.

The nights he has ended up in bed with me have been because I initiated it (why do I have to enjoy sex so much?)


He has offered for me to look at his phone any time I want. A NC letter seems pointless as SHE ended it with him (almost a year ago)

Any thing I am missing/should look for? Is this the time for me to look back at my initial 180's and make sure they have become habit? We have been in limbo/weird roommate zone for so long I feel unsure of everything.

[Sotto]

Hi Twin, it sounds as though your H is very much trying to make things work in your M. Has that been a big change around since mid March then? It sounds as though you are still treading a little cautiously, which I can understand if it is a recent turn around.

Have you guys both positively decided that you are both 110% in and that you want to make the M succeed together? I can't recall from previously, but have you been to MC together at all? You say that there is still a limbo situation, is that because you remain unsure?

Sorry - twenty questions! It sounds like there has been lots of recent progress though. And it's good that your H has started seeing an IC of his own volition, and is talking more openly. It sounds as though you are headed in the right direction, but it is relatively early days and you are still cautious. What would it take for you to feel comfortable to move forward from 'room mate' zone?

Sorry to ask so many questions!

T :-)

[twinmom]

Yes, the change in attitude is very different for him. For the first few months after OW kicked him out he slept on my couch and cried/texted/pinned for her. He would randomly show me attention/affection but it was clear I was plan xyz......

Then I finally stood up for myself and kicked him out. He never hit rock bottom just used my desire for help (and my desire to keep my family together) to "worm" his way back to staying here and things got roommate weird..

We did that for a while then he wanted our marriage one day and the next he wouldn't. BIG time roller coaster.

FINALLY that ended when I was able to detach and really treat him like a roommate. I don't know if that's what did it or something else but it was like a lightning bolt. It was like the movie "a Christmas Carol" where he sees his mistakes and then sees the future if he doesn't shape up.

Yes, he saw an IC/marriage therapist before and that ended in disaster.

I don't know where to begin. What do I ask of him? How long does he need to prove himself? So many questions I don't even begin to know what to do.

[unbidden]

TW, How do you feel about your H right now? What is it that you really want?

[twinmom]

TW, How do you feel about your H right now? What is it that you really want?

I feel like I don't know how to put the bad memories side. The things he said, I don't know how to understand WHY he said things if he didn't mean it.

I know I still love him. I guess my problem is I am still trying to understand WHY the affair happened broken down into individual actions.
I think I have a hard time comprehending addiction and know that I have read addicts will lie, cheat, steal, do all kinds of crazy things for their addiction but do they really believe the lies they tell?

I have a hard time accepting that my H (in his mind) saw OW as this wonderful mother, GREAT person and overall had very few flaws. All while viewing me VERY negatively. And some of the things he viewed me negatively for she did and he was ok with. For example smoking, I would smoke randomly when I was stressed (NOT while pregnant) and OW smokes every day (She is pregnant now and I saw her smoking while driving)....

It's just torture to think about those kinds of things.

I guess I just want to find a way to make sure this doesn't happen again but I don't know how.

[alpha99]

Hi Twinmom,

this would seem a very positive turn of events for you. You say you still love him, and I'm sure your emotions are all over the place about exactly what you want, but now is the time to decide exactly what you want. You have a H who appears finally ready to begin undoing the damage he has caused. Should you want your marriage to work then over time you are going to have to work out how to forgive him for his actions. This won't be easy.

The only thing I can suggest is to really think about what you want, how likely your H's actions are likely to last, and then set out to him some ground rules/boundaries over what you'd expect from him and from a R going forward.

good luck!

[CaliGuy]

TW, How do you feel about your H right now? What is it that you really want?

I feel like I don't know how to put the bad memories side. The things he said, I don't know how to understand WHY he said things if he didn't mean it.

I know I still love him. I guess my problem is I am still trying to understand WHY the affair happened broken down into individual actions.
I think I have a hard time comprehending addiction and know that I have read addicts will lie, cheat, steal, do all kinds of crazy things for their addiction but do they really believe the lies they tell?

I have a hard time accepting that my H (in his mind) saw OW as this wonderful mother, GREAT person and overall had very few flaws. All while viewing me VERY negatively. And some of the things he viewed me negatively for she did and he was ok with. For example smoking, I would smoke randomly when I was stressed (NOT while pregnant) and OW smokes every day (She is pregnant now and I saw her smoking while driving)....

It's just torture to think about those kinds of things.

I guess I just want to find a way to make sure this doesn't happen again but I don't know how.

I could and very well may have written every single red lettered word here.

I am not caught up on your sitch but this post was like a thunerbolt as I struggle with the same thing.

I have begun to process it, your H has asked .. what can he do... now is the time to figure out what you need, day to day, what you need for closure, and both of you must realize this wound will take time and tenderness to heal, you both need to repair it.

About a month ago my W was over at my place, we were talking and she brought up that I stated I wanted mo more secrets ... over the past couple years just felt like she was living 2 separate lives, granted our M was not all roses, but it was not "Go and find a OP for the fix" bad either. So she told me she would be open and honest, there was a question in my head about how it started, knowing this guy was not going to repeat that ever again.... I thought it might be a 4 year thing, turns out much much shorter, she timelined it for me, and it meshed with the times I had ... I believed her, that was a step.

Have you thought about MC together>? I seen I think it was Bond state that when it gets to a point MC is required, we have alot of hurts and issues that need to be adressed, and its not something you would want to tackle by yourselves.

Regardless it appears your H is putting himself out there, thats scary, you may want to think about what you really need and actually communicate this to him to start building that lost trust back.

[unbidden]

TW, I don't think that there are any hard and fast answers except to realize that it's all projection, what he thought of her or you changes because our amygdala gets fired up and we create a story around it. None of it was actually true. It was just a perception that changed based upon his state. The most helpful thing I did was to just realize I was never going to understand what happened in my R but that I could choose to forgive, and so I did. It was so incredibly freeing. I think I may have sent you MWD's article on forgiveness before but in case I didn't I'm pasting it here again. It really is the answer, I think.

Forgiveness Is a Gift You Give Yourself

By Michele Weiner-Davis

Are you someone who walks around feeling angry with your spouse or loved one much of the time? Do you have a little inner voice that constantly reminds you of all of his or her wrongdoings? Have you become expert at remembering all the minute details of past injustices just so that you can keep score? If this describes you at all, you better read what I'm about to say and take it to heart.

Lack of forgiveness imprisons you. It takes its toll on your physical and emotional health. It keeps you stuck in the deepest of relationship ruts. No matter how justified you feel about your point of view regarding your partner's insensitive behavior, you still are miserable. When you wake up each morning, a gray tint shadows your life. You walk around with a low-grade depression. You can't feel joy because you're too busy being angry or feeling disappointed.

In the face of these fairly obvious disadvantages, you hang on to your belief that, since you feel let down, you must not "give in." To you, giving in means forgiving, letting go, making peace. To do so, would be tantamount to giving up your soul. So, you keep your distance. You interact in perfunctory ways, never allowing your partner to step over the emotional line you've drawn. And though the distance often feels intolerable, forgiveness is not on your short list of solutions to your dilemma.

I have worked with so many couples who say they want to heal their relationships. And yet, when they're offered the tools, they can't seem to move forward. These are the couples who, instead of finding effective ways to get beyond blame, continue to repeat their mantra, "Our problems are your fault and you must pay." As long as they maintain this mindset, they are doomed to failure. How very sad. Even sadder are their children who, on a day-by-day basis observe their parents being "right" but "miserable." What lessons are they learning about love?

If any of this strikes a chord with you (and you wouldn't be reading this if it didn't), you need to internalize that forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. Letting go of resentment can set you free. It can bring more love and happiness into your life. It opens the door to intimacy and connection. It makes you feel whole. Forgiving others takes strength, particularly when you feel wronged, but the fortitude required to forgive pales in comparison to the energy necessary to maintain a sizable grudge. The person most hurt by holding out or blaming is YOU, no matter what the circumstances.

"All this sounds good," you tell yourself, "but how can I ever forget what my partner did to me?" Good question. You don't! Forgiveness is not the same as forgetting. You will probably always remember the particular injustice(s) that drove you into your corner. But what will happen is that when you forgive, the intense emotions associated with the event(s) begin to fade. You will feel happier, lighter, more loving. And these renewed positive feelings won't go unnoticed. Others will be drawn to you.

Just keep in mind that forgiveness isn't a feeling. It is a decision. You decide that you are going to start tomorrow with a clean slate. Even if it isn't easy, you make the determination that the alternative is even harder, and that you are going to do what you must to begin creating a more positive future.

So promise yourself, that no matter what the reason, you will not go another day blaming your partner and feeling lonely. Make peace. Make up. Make love. I promise you that the benefits of deciding to forgive go far beyond anything you can picture in your mind's eye at the moment. Your decision to forgive will create a ripple effect of exponential changes in your life.

[twinmom]

Thank you, I struggle with forgiveness. I think I need to read this every day.

[Sotto]

Hi Twin, I think forgiveness is difficult and is a choice and a process, and we make progress and we backslide. As others have said, we all need to forgive in order to truly heal. Some of us may be lucky enough to forgive and heal with our S and others may do it alone. But either way, we need to find it within us in order to live a healthy and full life.

It sounds as though you are making progress, because you are thinking about it and recognising it is hard for you and taking advice. All of that is positive, and you won't get there over night. But, know that it is possible for all of us to reach a place of forgiveness, even for things that have hurt us a great deal.

Keep posting and take care (((Twin)))