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Hey K,

First,

please realize that we know this isn't easy and it can get confusing, until if & when you have a fairly clear (but always flexible) Game Plan.

At this point, you still lack one. I HIGHLY recommend you hire a DB coach, for clarity if nothing else.

Okay now, a few things I noticed herein...


Originally Posted By: koalada
25yearsmic, I thank you for being honest with me.

I do not want to give her the impression, that I am not interested in her stuff. If I am too short with words, she might think, that I am cold or rude or bitchy.


This is mostly about HER PERCEPTION of you, which is about her and Not you. Let's get back to You...b/c once again, you are all you control.

Simply be authentically interested to the point you can safely be interested in the mother of your children WITHOUT attaching any expectations therefrom

I said ^^ "simply be...", not b/c it's easy - but b'c it's Not always that complex.

In this post are some examples of you NOT being detached from her or the outcome of interactions with her, which is key to Detachment.

(SO is GAL and I need to hear a whole lot more about your GAL, btw, and a lot less about her perceptions or words or feelings OR your perceptions of those...)


Yes, you are right! I have lost the path again. In moments like this, I get the impression, that I am just not able to make it.


Been there^^, done that. I told my sisters there was a "90% chance h & I would be divorced" by the summer's end. My feelings changed. So will yours and so will your w's. Nothing Is written in stone.



I had some good days and I have thought, that she became a bit warmer and BANG she tells me again ILYBINILWY.



Do Not monitor for results so often or so soon! (And Do Not take the temperature of the R, even if you are only doing so internally--Not helpful to you)

Your patience level must increase 10 fold...literally. Just be the best YOU that you can be, and let the cards fall where they will.

STOP looking over your shoulder to see if she noticed OR if she might be "warmer" or looking at you differently. OR wanting to throw in the towel b/c last week she made eye contact and this week she said she is angry at you...

get off the roller coaster.

Aside from the reality that she's probably on to you doing all that monitoring (and it's SO much more noticeable than you realize),

and aside from how needy it looks,

it also makes ANY changes you are demonstrating, Look Fake

(as if they are "tactics" just to get her back) so that IF you two reconcile,

you will of course revert to your old ways - b/c your "changes" are Not real or permanent.

Do you get what I'm saying? In other words, you're hurting your cause with all this monitoring and getting so frutrqtied with HER reactions to changes you are supposedly making -

b/c

IF YOUR CHANGES WERE AUTHENTIC,

(& YOU DID THEM TO IMPROVE YOURSELF & TO PLEASE YOURSELF) -

YOU WOULD NOT NOTICE OR CARE WHAT HER REACTION WAS.... never mind whether she is "warmer" or

SAYS ILYBINILWY

b/c you're not supposed to listen to ANYTHING she says and only half of what she does.

I know you have heard all these^^ "mantras" before.

Start applying them to yourself.


I pick up myself and try to be unimpressed, work on my stuff and I get the impression, that she is less distant and BANG, she tells me, she is still planning the D. I am hopeless right now.

Part of our marriage problems was, that I was emotionally distant for a long time. If I am distant right now, she might think that I am back into old patterns. "Yeah, I know this look on his face. He is not interested in that what moves me."


I understand. So you have to handle being detached differently.

The "rules" are merely guidelines that are meant as GUIDES. When Sandi wrote them she mentions that some won't apply and no one needs all of them.

If your issue was not being connected with her at a deep level (not listening to her) and lacking empathy or she felt that you lacked it there are things you can do and should do regardless of the marriage.

ALL people want to feel heard and validated. So LISTEN to her.

Re-cap what she tells you so you know you got it right. "W, let me see if I got this right, you're saying the children hate the basketball coach BUT They love the team -- so they only want to play on the team he's NOT coaching, correct? I don't know how that affects driving them to practice, etc. How do YOU feel about that?"

(That ^^one is fairly easy yet you'd be surprised how many people do NOT re-cap b/c they think their time is so important that they cannot verify what their spouse said, let alone show they care about it.)

When she speaks to you, LOOK at her and don't be distracted

By example, ---IF your wife were to look you in the eye and tell you that she is "in love" with you, you would probably be very moved.

What if she told you she is "in love" with you, while she's looking at her watch??

See the difference? Same words very different meanings. LISTEN ACTIVELY

ALSO AND THIS IS KEY

IF she revises an event and makes it all your fault, if that is AT ALL accurate

(like if you really did drop the ball & cause some of her pain)

THEN YOU SAY

"W, I remember that & I'm sorry I hurt you. If I had it all to do over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently."
Say this sincerely.

IF SHE revises an incident way out of proportion or you truly really do NOT recall it at all

do Not argue with you (you won't win, you'll just confirm her reasons for leaving)

you say

"Wow I sure don't recall it that way, BUT I'm sorry you were hurt. If I could do it all over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently.""


This ^^ response does Not escalate; it does NOT lead to another argument and in fact it usually diffuses a situation (so use it that way)

it's honest, AND it shows that you would like to change some things - which is a change in itself. It's Not the time for you to say "and YOU have to change too"...you say nothing about HER; just you.

And it's not a doormat answer either. I'd memorize it if I were you.

FTR, there was an event I simply had NO recall of and I kind of thought h was going nuts.

In fact I was so mad that I almost called him a liar to his face, but right before I did, as I muttered about it, my d9 heard me.

She piped in that SHE recalled the event, and had details that finally jogged my memory (maybe I blocked it out??)

but man, our recall of a lot of these incidents is NOT that great - so we cannot always assume our WAS is nuts.

Just saying...




She feels bad. She has told me about her doubts regarding her ability to ever work again. She told me, that she thinks she is gullible. Today she told me, that she has been desperate for hours, that she would be overwhelmed by life. (This has been the first time in month, that she has spoken that open about her emotions, without talking about R).

This^^ is valuable Data!! Keep gathering it like you are a spy getting "intel" on a recon mission.

I wish you'd hire a DB coach (what are you exactly waiting for, just so I know)? They'd tell you how important it is to listen for clues.

Mine was a Godsend!

She saId when h was sharing about himself or his work or anything NOT related to our marriage

that I should "Listen like a Lover" and validate and actively listen,

and Do Not judge, do not advise or 'Fix" (men in particular do this a lot, and often the woman wants to be HEARD and NOT repaired).

When a man makes a suggestion to a woman about a painful problem, SOMETIMES it comes off as if the man thinks he's fixed it now, so why is she STILL talking about it?

"Why is she whining now? I TOLD HER she could quit the job"...(never mind that they need the money or she loves the people or the job or loves the prestige, )

when a man makes a 2 sentence suggestion to an emotional problem his woman has,

to most women, it does NOT feel as if he is showing he cares.

The priority is her airing her feelings to someone who is listening and cares. 9/10 of the time she'll solve it herself after being heard.

So LISTEN to her and do not fix it - and do not make it about you.

Make sense?


Obviously if she asks you for something, that is different. If it involves the kids or her safety, do it without hemming and hawing.

Otherwise just run it by here and we can give feedback if you want.

I feel selfish, if I do not take care of her emotional situation, if I do not support and encourage her.

I am really confused and messed up. So I go back to the book and your posts and start again. Yes, I still try to please her and to impress her and to manipulate her. Most of the stuff I do is for her and not for me.


Read those 2 highlighted sentences and think about them.

I try to please her...to impress her...to MANIPULATE HER...

for her and not for me...

[u][/u]

Koala, it's really all about you wanting to manipulate the outcome of this,

and while that is true of most DBers, to an extent

your mistake is the constant deflection from simply wanting to be the best man you can and ought to be

for the sake of self actualization (meaning, for the sake of being your best)

without regard to the path your wife is on.


Period.

Paradoxically
that detachment from the results,

i.e. the leaving it in God's hands, (or the universe's or whatever you call it)

happens to be the most likely way of re-attracting your spouse back to you.

When I truly GAL & finally could Detach

I did not care nearly as much about what my h was doing or thinking or feeling

b/c my life was about ME and my children, being content (and I was more content and continue to be)

and so, when he had his awakening and wanted back into the family, I was hesitant.

So Stop challenging her choices and she might stop defending them so much; she might even begin to look at them.

But your task is Not about her or what she does.



Can you tell us what YOU wish to work on in your life starting NOW?

Time to Get back on your path.

Last edited by Cadet; 05/09/15 12:08 PM. Reason: fix quotes

M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 117
K
koalada Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc


First,

please realize that we know this isn't easy and it can get confusing, until if & when you have a fairly clear (but always flexible) Game Plan.

At this point, you still lack one. I HIGHLY recommend you hire a DB coach, for clarity if nothing else.


First let me say, that I am thankful for your reply, that you take time to help me. I really apreciate it. Here is the first part of my reply. I am busy tonight, so it might take me till tomorrow to write part II.

I do not have a real plan. I am on a tight budget and just can not afford the DB coach. I'd love to, but it is just not possible.




Originally Posted By: koalada


I do not want to give her the impression, that I am not interested in her stuff. If I am too short with words, she might think, that I am cold or rude or bitchy.


Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

This is mostly about HER PERCEPTION of you, which is about her and Not you.

I said ^^ "simply be...", not b/c it's easy - but b'c it's Not always that complex.

In this post are some examples of you NOT being detached from her or the outcome of interactions with her, which is key to Detachment.


[color:#009900]On one hand I should be aware of "important informations" and on the other hand I should not bother about her moods. How can I know what is important and what not? I am confused about that. I never know what she is doing next. I always expect some weird "move". How can I become peaceful and confident, while there could happen anything?

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
(SO is GAL and I need to hear a whole lot more about your GAL, btw, and a lot less about her perceptions or words or feelings OR your perceptions of those...)


My GAL so far:
Counselling
Once a week I go to the movies
Started songwriting again
Started playing guitar again
Reading selfhelp books
Sit in Cafes, while reading
Try to get more contact to old friends and relatives
New haircut
Wear nice clothes and bought new after-shave
Beekeeping course (honey harvest soon)

My 180's
Do not interupt her
Do not finish her sentences
Make decisions
Don't do the whole job of the divorce (just move out, sign any paper she gives me, give her as much money as I can). That would have been me, following my old patterns.
Be firm as a father
Apply for a fulltime position
Do not accept disrespect (man up)



Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Do Not monitor for results so often or so soon! (And Do Not take the temperature of the R, even if you are only doing so internally--Not helpful to you)

Your patience level must increase 10 fold...literally. Just be the best YOU that you can be, and let the cards fall where they will.

STOP looking over your shoulder to see if she noticed OR if she might be "warmer" or looking at you differently. OR wanting to throw in the towel b/c last week she made eye contact and this week she said she is angry at you...

get off the roller coaster.


Again, as I have mentioned above: On one hand I should be aware of her "important informations" and on the other hand I should not bother about her moods. How can I know what is important and what not? I am confused about that.

Regarding detachment: I have difficulties to imagine detachment "in action". I have the impression, that I am running out of time. Do I really need to let this marriage go, in order to (probably) save it?

So far part I.



Last edited by koalada; 05/09/15 05:42 PM.

Me 46
W 45
S16 D14 S10
M 20 yrs in June T22
12/14 sleeping in different rooms
01/07/15 she said she wants a separation
02/26/15 I moved out
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 117
K
koalada Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 117
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Aside from the reality that she's probably on to you doing all that monitoring (and it's SO much more noticeable than you realize),

and aside from how needy it looks,

it also makes ANY changes you are demonstrating, Look Fake

(as if they are "tactics" just to get her back) so that IF you two reconcile,

you will of course revert to your old ways - b/c your "changes" are Not real or permanent.

Do you get what I'm saying? In other words, you're hurting your cause with all this monitoring and getting so frutrqtied with HER reactions to changes you are supposedly making -

b/c

IF YOUR CHANGES WERE AUTHENTIC,

(& YOU DID THEM TO IMPROVE YOURSELF & TO PLEASE YOURSELF) -

YOU WOULD NOT NOTICE OR CARE WHAT HER REACTION WAS.... never mind whether she is "warmer" or

SAYS ILYBINILWY

b/c you're not supposed to listen to ANYTHING she says and only half of what she does.

I know you have heard all these^^ "mantras" before.

Start applying them to yourself.




I am conflicted with looking for "sign posts" and "let her do whatever she wants to do" AND change my own life for myself. It feels like emotional plate spinning.

MWD is talking about "sign posts", that I have to look for. Btw. I have goals. I have just forgot them.

*I want to celebrate our 21st anniversarry as couple.
*Me and W are talking about "saving the M"
*We start a therapy with the goal of becoming strong as a couple.
*W puts the D-plans on hold

The sign posts I am looking for:
*She would look out for opportunities to spend time with me.
*She would talk about herself without talking about R
*She would call or send a text, just to say Hello
*She would question her decision
*She would ask about my life without searching for traces, that help her case.
*She would mention differences, that she might have noticed.
*She would not avoid me.

All those signals were more clear, when I have lived apart from her. From time to time I still see those small changes, but her mood changes everyday.

What do you think about the goals and the sign posts?

And should I ignore everything else she says and does?
Can you understand my confusion?


Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

I understand. So you have to handle being detached differently.

The "rules" are merely guidelines that are meant as GUIDES. When Sandi wrote them she mentions that some won't apply and no one needs all of them.

If your issue was not being connected with her at a deep level (not listening to her) and lacking empathy or she felt that you lacked it there are things you can do and should do regardless of the marriage.

ALL people want to feel heard and validated. So LISTEN to her.

Re-cap what she tells you so you know you got it right. "W, let me see if I got this right, you're saying the children hate the basketball coach BUT They love the team -- so they only want to play on the team he's NOT coaching, correct? I don't know how that affects driving them to practice, etc. How do YOU feel about that?"

(That ^^one is fairly easy yet you'd be surprised how many people do NOT re-cap b/c they think their time is so important that they cannot verify what their spouse said, let alone show they care about it.)

When she speaks to you, LOOK at her and don't be distracted

By example, ---IF your wife were to look you in the eye and tell you that she is "in love" with you, you would probably be very moved.

What if she told you she is "in love" with you, while she's looking at her watch??

See the difference? Same words very different meanings. LISTEN ACTIVELY


As a social worker, I naturally use this approach quiet often. In times of conflicts, it is important, that I understand the problem of the people in order to get a suitable solution. It is one of my 180's, I am working on.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

ALSO AND THIS IS KEY

IF she revises an event and makes it all your fault, if that is AT ALL accurate

(like if you really did drop the ball & cause some of her pain)

THEN YOU SAY

"W, I remember that & I'm sorry I hurt you. If I had it all to do over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently."
Say this sincerely.

IF SHE revises an incident way out of proportion or you truly really do NOT recall it at all

do Not argue with you (you won't win, you'll just confirm her reasons for leaving)

you say

"Wow I sure don't recall it that way, BUT I'm sorry you were hurt. If I could do it all over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently.""


This ^^ response does Not escalate; it does NOT lead to another argument and in fact it usually diffuses a situation (so use it that way)

it's honest, AND it shows that you would like to change some things - which is a change in itself. It's Not the time for you to say "and YOU have to change too"...you say nothing about HER; just you.

And it's not a doormat answer either. I'd memorize it if I were you.

FTR, there was an event I simply had NO recall of and I kind of thought h was going nuts.

In fact I was so mad that I almost called him a liar to his face, but right before I did, as I muttered about it, my d9 heard me.

She piped in that SHE recalled the event, and had details that finally jogged my memory (maybe I blocked it out??)

but man, our recall of a lot of these incidents is NOT that great - so we cannot always assume our WAS is nuts.

Just saying...




Thank you for sharing your failures with me. You are right. It is very tempting for me, to think in the categories of "right and wrong", "guilty and not guilty". I still have the score card in my hands. It is easier to blame W for everything and label her "crazy", than to look at myself, swallow my pride and work on myself.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

This^^ is valuable Data!! Keep gathering it like you are a spy getting "intel" on a recon mission.


How can I recognise the valuable bits, without getting sidetracked by her other words and deeds?

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

I wish you'd hire a DB coach (what are you exactly waiting for, just so I know)? They'd tell you how important it is to listen for clues.

Mine was a Godsend!

She saId when h was sharing about himself or his work or anything NOT related to our marriage

that I should "Listen like a Lover" and validate and actively listen,

and Do Not judge, do not advise or 'Fix" (men in particular do this a lot, and often the woman wants to be HEARD and NOT repaired).

When a man makes a suggestion to a woman about a painful problem, SOMETIMES it comes off as if the man thinks he's fixed it now, so why is she STILL talking about it?

"Why is she whining now? I TOLD HER she could quit the job"...(never mind that they need the money or she loves the people or the job or loves the prestige, )

when a man makes a 2 sentence suggestion to an emotional problem his woman has,

to most women, it does NOT feel as if he is showing he cares.

The priority is her airing her feelings to someone who is listening and cares. 9/10 of the time she'll solve it herself after being heard.

So LISTEN to her and do not fix it - and do not make it about you.

Make sense?


Iam definitly guilty of this one. I am the one who thinks "do this and that and voila...problem solved". Because I have felt respnsible for offering solutions, not joining a "coffee klatsch" (do you have this phrase in your country?). It is painful for me, to sit and listen, without offering "mature advice". At my job, I can do this and I am usually good with detaching. With my W it is different.

And regarding the DB-Coach...I can not afford it yet.


Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Obviously if she asks you for something, that is different. If it involves the kids or her safety, do it without hemming and hawing.
.

Can you explain the "hemming and hawing" to me? Does it mean "immediatly", without waiting?


Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Otherwise just run it by here and we can give feedback if you want.


And I do appreciate your patience and your time.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
...you wanting to manipulate the outcome of this,

and while that is true of most DBers, to an extent

your mistake is the constant deflection from simply wanting to be the best man you can and ought to be

for the sake of self actualization (meaning, for the sake of being your best)

without regard to the path your wife is on.


Period.

I would love to control the outcome. In the beginning, I have thought about DB as a magical pill. I just do the right things and everything will fall into places. Well, I was wrong about it.

It feels strange to work on myself in a situation, while my M is on the brink of divorce. It feels like driving by a car accident, but as a reaction I just turn on the radio and drive on. Looking for a nice way to spend the evening.


Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc


Paradoxically
that detachment from the results,

i.e. the leaving it in God's hands, (or the universe's or whatever you call it)

happens to be the most likely way of re-attracting your spouse back to you.

When I truly GAL & finally could Detach

I did not care nearly as much about what my h was doing or thinking or feeling

b/c my life was about ME and my children, being content (and I was more content and continue to be)

and so, when he had his awakening and wanted back into the family, I was hesitant.

So Stop challenging her choices and she might stop defending them so much; she might even begin to look at them.

But your task is Not about her or what she does.


The car accident picture again, combined with the need to save, repair, fix and change her. Can I feel free to make myself the priority? Without looking like a jerk?

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Can you tell us what YOU wish to work on in your life starting NOW?

Time to Get back on your path.


I would love to live with self respect and dignity, becoming more stable emotionally and to be thankful for every moment of my life.

So far part II of my reply. It might sound a bit messy. It is quiet likely that I do not get the point of some posts, because of the process of translation and it is even more likely that I do not get the point of some posts, because I am a stubborn guy, who wants the world to massage his ego.


Me 46
W 45
S16 D14 S10
M 20 yrs in June T22
12/14 sleeping in different rooms
01/07/15 she said she wants a separation
02/26/15 I moved out
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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Koalada,

I'll quote you and then see if my comments can illuminate things more. I do understand the translation aspects of all this and of course there are typos to deal with as well.

Here we go. You said:


I am conflicted with looking for "sign posts" and "let her do whatever she wants to do" AND change my own life for myself. It feels like emotional plate spinning.

MWD is talking about "sign posts", that I have to look for. Btw. I have goals. I have just forgot them.

*I want to celebrate our 21st anniversarry as couple.
*Me and W are talking about "saving the M"
*We start a therapy with the goal of becoming strong as a couple.
*W puts the D-plans on hold

The sign posts I am looking for:
*She would look out for opportunities to spend time with me.
*She would talk about herself without talking about R
*She would call or send a text, just to say Hello
*She would question her decision
*She would ask about my life without searching for traces, that help her case.
*She would mention differences, that she might have noticed.
*She would not avoid me.

All those signals were more clear, when I have lived apart from her. From time to time I still see those small changes, but her mood changes everyday.

What do you think about the goals and the sign posts?

And should I ignore everything else she says and does?
Can you understand my confusion?


I think your confusion stems from the chronic focus on your wife, and not on yourself.

Instead of having personal goals YOU can try to achieve up^^ there, you only have goals that involve action or emotion on HER part. And since you have zero control over her, the list involves nothing you can do.

That belief is false and has to change. There are things you can do on your own.

Otherwise it's almost as if you are choosing to be helpless b/c only if SHE does/says something, then what?


To me, that ^^ list mostly looks like a list of ways your wife will/can save you.

It's time to take charge of your life and your own happiness, don't you think?

Also SIGN POSTS and Personal Goals are Not the same.

Sign posts are things you'd monitor for, AFTER you have made the improvements in yourself and the changes and 180s (i.e. your personal goals) have had a chance to make an impression.

The phrase that comes to mind is that you are "putting the cart before the horse". Another way of saying this is that

You are putting things out of order.

Make Koalada the best man he can become and THEN, down the road, look for some of the sign posts you wish to find.

Make sense?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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Offline
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Let's try this another way.

You wrote:



I am conflicted with looking for "sign posts" and "let her do whatever she wants to do" AND change my own life for myself. It feels like emotional plate spinning.


First, what's with "Let her do"? Koalada, She CAN and WILL DO whatever she wants.

You never had control over that and you still do not.

So spend NO energy on "whether" you should b/c you cannot. Period. Okay?



MWD is talking about "sign posts", that I have to look for. Btw. I have goals. I have just forgot them.



So you forgot your goals? Well that's interesting b/c it relates to your happiness. Let's make that a priority and you Start remembering or recreating your goals, b/c it's very important you set goals. VERY IMPORTANT.

Again, SIGN POSTS usually come after the changes and goals get achieved, by you and only you.

Here's an example of what I mean when I say to set a personal, achievable goal:

1) I will get in shape & feel/look better BY walking/running 2 miles a day, 4+ times a week.

2) I will work do work towards a promotion at my job - BY staying late on Wednesdays and doing extra work on Mondays...

Notice that in terms of my personal goals, the only person who can achieve them is ME.

I might not get the promotion at work BUT I Can stay late, do extra and at least know I have improved my work performance.

There's nothing in those^^ 2 goals that my spouse would need to do.

Hypothetically, later on,

I might list as a signpost, that "H compliments my improved appearance".


Does this help clarify anything for you?


*I want to celebrate our 21st anniversarry as couple.
*Me and W are talking about "saving the M"
*We start a therapy with the goal of becoming strong as a couple.

These ^^ are all things you can hope for or set as signs of "piecing" the marriage back,

AFTER you have made the changes in yourself that you need/want to make.

They are down the road from now.


*W puts the D-plans on hold



This is a marital goal - not a personal one-- and while it's fine as a marital goal, (and also a "signpost" actually), here, it's not related to any 180 or change in you.

But obviously if she did this (delaying or reversing the Divorce filing) then you'd know you had made a lot of progress.

It's just that you are not doing anything to make it more likely by all this analysis.

Another idiom we have is "Paralysis by analysis".

Think about that^^ one okay?


The sign posts I am looking for:

Almost all of the signposts below are far far down the road from here and

they are ALL ABOUT HER,

which is truly missing the point at this stage of things.


*She would look out for opportunities to spend time with me.
*She would talk about herself without talking about R
*She would call or send a text, just to say Hello
*She would question her decision
*She would ask about my life without searching for traces, that help her case.
*She would mention differences, that she might have noticed.
*She would not avoid me.

IN TIME,


you can hope and look for ^^^ these to happen but it's not as if staring at her will make them more likely.

You will KNOW if she texts you just to say hello, or looks for an opportunity to spend time with you. You'll know.

No point in waiting for those to happen.


So, Back to YOU and YOUR WORK on Yourself...


All those signals were more clear, when I have lived apart from her.

From time to time I still see those small changes,but her mood changes everyday.


Why are you looking for changes in HER and not in yourself? What are the traits you wish to change in YOURSELF and let's go from there, alright?

Otherwise you'll spend your life waiting and hoping your wife will do or feel something for you,

rather than walking a path that others would enjoy sharing with you.

What do you think about the goals and the sign posts?

And should I ignore everything else she says and does?


Hard to explain why some things are more important than others. Sometimes it's just obvious.

One way to protect ourselves from being on an emotional roller coaster with our walk away spouses (is to get off) and

is to pay no attention to their spewing venom words (crazy mean talk, for example), should be ignored.

If she berates you or speaks with disrespect and or a bad temper, in the same area as you, you walk away.


If it happens on the phone - you tell her you will talk with her when there is less emotion, and THEN you get off the phone, always always being CALM...

BTW - the person who loses their temper in an argument - is the person with less power.

The person in control over themselves, even when angry, is the one with the power to control themselves. They are the stronger of the two.


It is true that you might decide you don't ever want to reconcile with someone who acts that way -

but you cannot react to every nasty comment and you should not. Same goes for her moods.


IF SHE is reacting to something you did or said, take that information in so you can see if a "signpost" might be around.

But don't get beaten down by every little word or look from her.

By making yourself a more self confident, inwardly content man,

her words will roll off your back and perhaps in time make you a lot more attractive to her.

And this self confidence and inward contentment is all within your control to achieve.


Regardless of HER reaction to a more contented you, YOU will be more content & that is a wonderful gift you can give yourself for you.



Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 05/11/15 07:19 PM.

M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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Posts: 13,511
PS

Your GAL needs to involve meeting and interacting with A LOT MORE PEOPLE and not so many solo activities.

There are lots of reasons for this, but for now, please think about it.

Especially meeting new people, helps us obsess Less about our spouses or our situations, and helps us be happier, a lot faster.

I don't believe anyone can detach without GAL- especially having new and more people in our lives other than our walk away spouses.

Put another way,

GAL + Time = Detachment


and

Consistent change (in us) + sufficient time = change the WAS can believe in.

You need to make those changes, be consistent with them and give it TIME.

You must GAL with others, and give that time and Detachment will come.

You won't be on the roller coaster anymore.

And no, detachment does Not = giving up.

But you must Detach before you can really move forward in your life.

Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 05/11/15 07:24 PM.

M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 117
K
koalada Offline OP
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K
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 117
Wow!
!
!
!
Thank you so much for your reply. I do not have time to answer immediately, but be sure that your words are a gift to my situation.


Me 46
W 45
S16 D14 S10
M 20 yrs in June T22
12/14 sleeping in different rooms
01/07/15 she said she wants a separation
02/26/15 I moved out
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 117
K
koalada Offline OP
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Posts: 117
Before BD, I was working on an optimal body weight and on a "six pack". I had already lost 25 pounds. I have been really committed for eight month. Then I went into "panic-mode" and stopped going after this goal. So what about the following goals?

*I get my optimal body weight (about 10 pounds left)
*I get the first "six pack" of my life
*I get a full-time position till September
*I meet every second week with a friend and play guitar with him
*Once a week I go to a lecture or a concert or an exhibition (there are plenty of them in our region. "architecture of the post-war time", "the basics of gardening", "medieval songs"...and so on).
*Spend a good time with every child, everyday.
*See at least 2 movies every month.
*Swimming twice a month
*Post at least 3 songs on "soundcloud" every month.
*Phone my sisters once a week
*Say "yes" to the invitation of my sister and spend a weekend with them. She and her husband are living in a wonderful area with vineyards (Moselle).
*Struggle, get up and go back to my goals.

I also gave up meditation and think about going back to this habit.


Me 46
W 45
S16 D14 S10
M 20 yrs in June T22
12/14 sleeping in different rooms
01/07/15 she said she wants a separation
02/26/15 I moved out
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 117
K
koalada Offline OP
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Posts: 117
Yesterday I did my "six-pack" exercises again. My weight loss app is alive again. I went to a lecture about body cells and tonight a friend comes to play guitar. And I have received an invitation for a job interview.
The meeting with the friend had been planned since last week.


Me 46
W 45
S16 D14 S10
M 20 yrs in June T22
12/14 sleeping in different rooms
01/07/15 she said she wants a separation
02/26/15 I moved out
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 117
K
koalada Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
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K
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 117
I have also cancelled the phone and cable TV contract. If this ends in a separation, I have two contracts less to worry about.


Me 46
W 45
S16 D14 S10
M 20 yrs in June T22
12/14 sleeping in different rooms
01/07/15 she said she wants a separation
02/26/15 I moved out
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