I have discovered this forum 2 weeks ago. And at this point in my life it is a great help for me.
My W (45) and I (46) are married for nearly 20 yrs. We have 3 great kids (S16, D14, S10). On the 01/07/2015 she told me, that she wanted a separation and a divorce (although she never used this word). Due to financial problems, I could not afford to move out. So we lived together in the same house. Guess what I did the first weeks? Begging, bribing, bargaining, talk about the financial consequences of the separation, wrote songs and poems, bought flowers and tickets for a concert and so on. She tried to avoid talking to me and I could accept it for 20 hrs, before I started the begging again. I was a wreck. As long as I did not mention the relationship, everything was fine, but when I started begging again, it got louder.
10 days ago I left home and started to follow the 37 rules (plus GAL and detachment). We see each other on a regular basis (2-4 times a week), due to car sharing and our kids. I have noticed, that she no longer avoids me, and that she even follows me (to the garden or kitchen), to start a conversation. We even laugh together quiet often. I go to french lessons now once a week, got a new therapist and even went to a selfhelp group for depression. I am afraid, that she is just kind and open to make herself feel better about the separation. “Him feeling better, will make the divorce much easier.”
The last yrs of our marriage I was a hard person. Me and my wife have always given everything for this family. She worked full time and got a nervous breakdown as a result, I work 19hrs and took care of the kids and the household. She wanted me to work fulltime, so that she could become more stable, but I was afraid of working fulltime, because I was mentally close to a breakdown. The family life and work ate all of my energies. I used every quiet moment to draw back from the kids and my wife, because I was desperate. I had no energy left. My wife often said that she was unhappy with our intimacy and the relationship, but everything I've heard was: „Do more, give more, try harder, although you give 150%, it is not good enough.“ There were moments in the last year, when I thought about leaving the family behind. I opened a new bank account and planned to leave (I never did but at this moment it comforted me). In December 2014 she went to a clinic because of her breakdown and I guess that was the time when her decision got definite. When I look back to those month and years, I have to say that I did become a terrible person. Emotionally hard, grumpy and a manipulating martyr. We were both overwhelmed by our life. I really wanted to be a good father and husband and gave everything all those yrs to the point of self denial. Even the thought of doing something for myself exhausted me.
The entire world was on my to-do-list. And my marriage and me were on the last place of it. I thought, that we would work our way through this mess together and took our marriage for granted.
She told me, that she fell in love with a person, she never met (Internet?). But there would be no contact at the moment. And that she loves me, but does not love me and so on. She bought new underwear and shoes and got her hairs in a new color, lost weight, she spends time in front of a huge mirror to “get in touch with herself”. Every time I wanted to talk about counseling, she said „only under the premise of getting a good separation for the kids. No more marriage. It is finished!“.My wife is an art therapist herself and she goes to therapy twice a month. Every time she came back from therapy, she was even more convinced, that a separation is the only way. She gets angry, when I tell her that I still want this marriage to work (so I don't). She wants me to accept this decision. There is real defiance(?) on here side.
We went to the „separation-counseling“. The counselor opened up our childhood and I cried a lot (for the first time in many years). I got abused as a boy (my elderly brother), my father left when I was 12 and my mother was an alcoholic. My step-mom treated me like s***t for yrs. It was a time full of humiliation (24/7) and my father did nothing to support me. I can see many reasons, why this marriage ended up, where it ended, but for the first time in many yrs, I have hope, that this marriage can become a great marriage. Despite everything that happened.
I get medications for depressions and those medications ruined my sex drive completely. She wanted closeness, I wanted to save the rest of my energy to survive the everyday life. To me physical closeness was something full of expectations (Sex was one more “work order”). I have supported her therapist training for years in every possible way. She has a dysfunctional family background too. Her Mom suffers from a religious kind of schizophrenia and her father was emotionally not available, although he is a nice guy.
Right now, she is willing to accept every negative result of a divorce. She would be in deep financial trouble but is sure she will make it (she is unemployed right now). The kids would suffer but “they are resilient“. She would have to leave the house (rented) and so on. Everything seems to be better than living together with me. It is, as if she thinks that a life with me would kill her and that Mr. Perfect is waiting around the corner, eager to get into a relationship with a single parenting mom of three kids.
The last weeks, I have discovered the books „divorce remedy“,
So here I am, a newbie, who wants to keep his family together. Due to the fact, that I don't have an internet connection for the entire week, it might take a day or two for me to answer and post. I thank you all for reading and I appreciate any advice. I never want to go back in the old marriage. It was a mess. I want a new marriage with my wife. Real and lasting changes. I am thankful for this crisis. It has been the wake up call I needed to turn around my life.
Last edited by Cristy; 03/09/1507:15 PM. Reason: per forum agreement, do not mentione other books, authors, websites or forums
Me 46 W 45 S16 D14 S10 M 20 yrs in June T22 12/14 sleeping in different rooms 01/07/15 she said she wants a separation 02/26/15 I moved out
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thank you cadet for welcoming me. Yes, I have plenty of questions. The most nagging ones are: *Should I continue to go to the separation conseling? *Is it normal , that I am full of hope on one day and totally desparate on the next day? Sometimes it even changes in hours. *Can a detachement backfire? Are there any dangers in it? Right now it feels strange to "not check her moods". She seems to be totaly relaxed with the situation. And that frightens me. How can she be so relaxed while our family breaks into pieces? Sorry for beeing such a whimp. But it is an emotional roller coaster.
Me 46 W 45 S16 D14 S10 M 20 yrs in June T22 12/14 sleeping in different rooms 01/07/15 she said she wants a separation 02/26/15 I moved out
I have read Sandis thread about the wayward wife and the idea of “tough love” scares the s.... out of me. My wife sometimes complained “I want a marriage in which we can fight for the right decision and argue hard about stuff. Other couples can do that.” But when an argument started she either got quiet and drew back (because she was not used to me being upset and/or talking straight) or she got away from the facts and went the emotional road, talking only about feelings, even if it was about real life stuff like money (and then she got really stubborn and left).
Next Monday it is my sons birthday. We usually start the morning together with singing and cake for breakfast. I am on a tight budget and have just enough money to buy some food and household stuff. I can not afford a real gift for him. She is on a tight budget too, but can always ask her parents. I am ashamed to show up without any present and I don't want her to say that the present she bought was from both of us. I am thinking about writing a song for him as a gift, but his wishes are more tangible (Nintendo 3DS).
Right now, my wife hopes, that we will be best friends and help each other with life's struggles. She wants it as smooth as possible, because she can not stand confrontational situations. She wants “the best for the kids” (well than work on this marriage!) and hopes that I am the same soft and caring person I've been the last yrs. Should I miss the birthday, so that she can notice how weird family life is after a divorce? She is convinced, that the kids will be ok and a divorce is not a big deal for them. The separation counselor told her the opposite. He explained the trouble the kids would experience and the lifelong wounds. She just ignores it. It seems that she has designed a fantasy future without any problems. “She became a successful art therapist, is independent, but has a great looking husband with the perfect character. The father of her children is a close friend. He and the new husband spent much time together. The kids are thankful for the separation and this new life full of opportunities. The XH has married again, and his wife and me can talk about everything.”
When I read the above, I notice that it sounds confusing. Well, it is confusing right now. There are thousand thoughts and ideas in my head. I don't want to mess this up.
So my questions are: *What do you think about the birthday? *Was it a good idea, that I left the house? Should I move back into the house? Or would it be more efficient to stay detached physically?
My strategy at the moment is: Detach, GAL and follow the 37 rules. I am working on 180's (that is hard). What do you think, am I on the right path?
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I am really glad, that I found this forum and I really appreciate your ideas. It already helped me a lot to see, that I am not the only person in a situation like this.
Me 46 W 45 S16 D14 S10 M 20 yrs in June T22 12/14 sleeping in different rooms 01/07/15 she said she wants a separation 02/26/15 I moved out
Cadet, I seriously think you should add that thread to your standard threads in your welcome posts. It was incredibly insightful. I will have to come back to Sandi's post again and again. I wish I had that insight sooner.
Thanks again for all that you do, BTW
Koalada,
I am very sorry for your sitch. We are similar ages and we both have relatively young children involved. You have come to the right place. You will find support and advice here. Best of luck. I will try to follow your sitch, but if you check my thread out, you will find that I am pretty overwhelmed right now. Just know that you are in good company.
She is convinced, that the kids will be ok and a divorce is not a big deal for them. The separation counselor told her the opposite. He explained the trouble the kids would experience and the lifelong wounds. She just ignores it. It seems that she has designed a fantasy future without any problems. “She became a successful art therapist, is independent, but has a great looking husband with the perfect character. The father of her children is a close friend. He and the new husband spent much time together. The kids are thankful for the separation and this new life full of opportunities. The XH has married again, and his wife and me can talk about everything.”
Did she really write this or are you guessing that is what she wants?
Originally Posted By: koalada
When I read the above, I notice that it sounds confusing. Well, it is confusing right now.
Let me be clear. It is confusing. She is completely confused. I would go a step further and say she is completely detached or dissociated from reality. A "great looking husband with the perfect character" would not have an A or break up a family. Also haw could she know about this other person's character if she never met him? Are you sure they have not met? It is not clear from your original post - is this OM real or imagined?
Originally Posted By: koalada
There are thousand thoughts and ideas in my head. I don't want to mess this up.
It is ok and normal to have these thoughts in your head. You life has been turned upside down. But please, Do NOT share any thoughts with her right now. The best thing you can do right now is give her space. She seems to have a lot to sort out. I would defer to the other heavyweights on this site, but I think you should stop facilitating her fantasies and stop "sepearation counselling" it is not helping your sitch at all, and you need to start working on yourself. Just my opinion.
Divorce is a big horrific terrible deal, but you will not be able, nor should you try, to convince your wife of this. I tried it and it was a waste of time. She is very out of touch with reality right now.
Well to be honest I have no idea what really is going on inside her. It is all guessing and interpretation of her words, how she behaves and so on. I am not a mindreader so most of it is my thoughts running around in circles, trying to bring some sense into this mess. Regarding the OM she told me that they have never met and would not be in contact. Again I can only make a guess. When we meet it is civil and friendly, although I am quiet angry sometimes. I follow the 37 rules and write the anger in my diary. It might sound weired but the situation helps me to learn new things about myself everyday. I will read your story. Do you have a link to it? So far many thanks for your reply. I am glad that I have found this forum.
Me 46 W 45 S16 D14 S10 M 20 yrs in June T22 12/14 sleeping in different rooms 01/07/15 she said she wants a separation 02/26/15 I moved out
Don't make the mistake of discounting OM because they've never had any physical contact. For many people, and women especially, the emotional component is more important than the physical. My W and OM never did anything more than kiss. She cut off contact with him a couple of months ago. She is still pretty preoccupied, although I see improvement in that area. She still tries to tell me that he's not really a bad guy, despite his two previous A's before her. Keeping my food down is tough sometimes.
People in an A are NOT in their right minds, especially early on. My W was convinced for a while that her married OM would swoop in like a knight and save her from her suddenly miserable life. She says she was miserable for a long time, but it's funny how she never became miserable enough to leave until he popped up. Throughout our marriage my W couldn't fathom living more than 80 miles from her mother and was convinced that putting her children through a move would scar them emotionally. After OM showed up, she was suddenly ready to throw away her marriage, her job of 20 years that she loved, her friends, and take her kids 800 miles away to be with him. Of course there was the minor issue of his wife and sons, but true love conquers all, right? Fortunately her fog has cleared a lot, but she still is quite attached to OM.
Do what you're doing. Be polite, friendly, upbeat, apply the 180s. You will NOT be able to convince her of anything or "snap her out of it". My W almost destroyed her relationship with her best friend of 38 years because the friend (God bless her)refused to cheerlead her involvement with OM.
It's vital that you get your anger under control. I still struggle with this. Work on YOU. Be the man any woman would be a fool to leave, for YOU. Don't do it for her.
Last edited by Rzrback; 03/12/1506:23 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Here is a link to my first thread. It just locked today, so you will not be able to post on it. I am starting a new thread. Just need to come up with a nifty name. Suggestions anyone?
One thing that a lot of us do here is mind-read. It is not helpful. I understand why we do it - we are trying to make sense of someone else behavior. Nevertheless, you should avoid doing it because it only makes you more reactive to the bizarre things your W will do. It also prevents you from focusing on yourself - which is your main priority right now. I have wasted a lot of energy mind reading when I could have been doing other, more productive, things. Accept that your W is not behaving in a rational fashion. Believe half or what you see, none of what she says, and keep your distance. Then, work on yourself.
Have you read DB or DR yet?
yours in strength,
RAI
P.S. try to stick to the facts in your posts a bit more. That quote you posted really gave me the heeby Jeebies. Avoid over-interpretation of events. It will help others when they are trying to advise you.
Fortunately her fog has cleared a lot, but she still is quite attached to OM.