Jim0987 #12 - testing out Mk8's new features

[jim0987]

Thread 11 locked and so on to thread 12. I think now might be the time to accept my situation won’t be resolved with a quick apology and promise to do better.......

Here is the link to the last thread. At some point I'll put together a post that has links to all the previous ones

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2535860&page=1

as is sort of customary this thread starts with the 10p tour of my situation to bring you up to speed without having to go through the 1100 (ish) posts on my previous threads. If you do you'll find some really good advice, though not all of it I was ready to hear at the time.

Relationship situation as it stands
My wife moved out 3 weeks ago into a house she has purchased, with the money I gave her as part of a (hopefully) final financial settlement. We share custody of our 2 young kids with a pattern that gives me 6 nights out of 14. In everything except the legal paperwork we are divorced.

There are a few child related issues to be resolved, that aren’t big but at same time could become really contentious points (for example where they are registered for doctors etc.)

we have limited contact although we see each other for child handovers twice every 14 days. and if the kids swimming lessons are on that leads to 2 more handovers each week. A few text message exchanges but they are to do with a couple of practical separation issues otherwise its pretty low contact. A couple of logistics things to do with handover times, a medical thing for D3 and a few seperation 'issues' to resolve. In all maybe 10 brief and unavoidable text conversations.

My wife seems to have a preference for as little contact as possible and feels quite cold and/or hostile when I do see/speak to her. I’ve tried to be friendly and positive but this may need to change to be more distant.

I do know that my wife blames me for her unhappiness and feels that I have not been fair in the financial settlement (not my view). From what I know of what she has said to others it paints a very unpleasant picture of me and unsurprisingly one I don’t agree with.

Throughout the period since BD there has been an on/off thing with OM1 (OM1s choice) and at this time I don’t know whether this is currently on or off.

Background
BD was 5 months ago, though my wife says she made her decision a few months before that but knew she was going to leave me for almost a year before. Either way she has been pretty miserable at home for getting on for 3.5 years out of a 6 year relationship. I will say that I was also not satisfied in our relationship as I felt my wife was very distant and closed off.

There are various reasons for this which I’ve explained at length in my previous threads but the short version is that we went through a really rough period in the year after D3.5 was born and we never recovered from that. I would say that there were a couple of huge errors followed by a lot of misunderstanding, poor communication, assumptions and unmet expectations (of the kind described in so many books), she would say that its entirely my fault.

Me
I’m doing ok, I’m trying to be the best dad and best man I can be. I’m slowly making my house my own and am fine on everything domestic (not that domestics were ever a worry).

Plenty of changes that I need to make to me which are all previously documented, but I cant say if that’s everything because I still don’t fully understand some of my wife’s complaints about me or possibly even know about some of them and so worry I missing something massive. I’m making progress on some of my changes but some are easier than others.

I do still have a fair bit of anger which is mainly a mix of hurt ego, a sense if unfairness about it all, loneliness and frustration at the helplessness I feel. I’m trying to let it go but it is still there.

I am finding that just being more aware of my emotions is helping as is the reading I’ve been doing. IC is also helping quite a lot.

I’m still way too attached to my wife and her moods and spend far too long thinking about her and my situation. I still want to reconcile with my wife but that feels increasingly unlikely and so I’ve started thinking more and more about my future without her.

I will say that outside of my relationship and the impact this situation has had, I’m pretty happy with my life. I’d like to be fitter and I’d like to be less financially constrained but I’m doing pretty good.

So that’s where I’m at. Anything else you want to know let me know.


Thank you for continuing to read and offer your thoughts and advice. Also thanks for sharing your own situations on your own threads because I take a lot from those as well.

[Mozza]

Thanks for the new thread. I always look forward to any development in your sitch. What I like most about this update is you starting to think about what you life would look like without your WAW.

[Vanilla]

What I would like to know is Jim and his GAL plans for this thread!

Humph

V

[Dawn70]

Thanks for the update, Jim! I am playing catch-up again as I was gone for a travel show last week and have been feeling poorly the last couple of days.

Positive thoughts and prayers are always directed your way from here.

[Sotto]

Hope you're doing okay Jim....you've been quiet for a couple of days my friend?

[jim0987]

Hi all,

I've been a bit quieter than usual (though still reading around the boards) - i've found i just havent got as much to say but i think thats reflective of my reflectiveness.

I'm doing alright.

GAL wise could be better. the limitation imposed by the foot is starting to annoy me but i've also noticed im drifting back into old habits of procrastination and delay. I need to get back into this better. Really tired though so am going to spend the weekend sleeping and tidying the house.

today was another day with the kids which was really nice. D3 was exceptionally well behaved all day (apart from a minor disagreement over the eating of lunch) and as a treat i let her stay up and watch a movie with me (bit selfish because it just meant i had an extra 90 odd minutes of snug with her). Maybell, no idea if you read my thread but if you do ^^^^^ this is why i just dont get your H.

I'll drop them off tomorrow at nursery then i have another of the 5 day stints without them, so we will see how that feels.

I've not heard from my W since sunday evening and dont expect to. There are a couple of logistical bits i need to discuss with her but they arent urgent so I've decided that i will leave it for this week and so we should end up with the only contact being handovers on sunday.

The redirection thing she hasnt sorted yet (like she promised) but i've not chased her, I've simply lodged the dispute which means the mail will be held until its resolved. If she does what she agreed to do then there is no issue. This is more principle than anything else - I'm not going to just let her make changes regarding the kids without speaking to me AND if we agree something then i'm going to hold her to it.

triggered by questions people have asked elsewhere I've been wondering what an earth standing for the marriage means. In practice i'm stood passively to one side just quietly doing my thing while my wife moves on and is maybe with OM1 in the hoping that she
1) ditches OM1 (if that is still a thing)
2) is prepared to forgive me
3) finds respect for me,
4) decides she wants to work on the relationship with me
5) is able to tell me this (without SIL or PF changing her mind)
6) is prepared to do what it takes on her side

All so we can start the, by all accounts very difficult, process of piecing. and given that we are now seperated is that going to do more or less harm to my kids (especially if we cant get through piecing)

and then what? (in either direction)

So been mulling this over and trying to understand what i'm standing for, why i'm standing and what not standing would look like and to be honest the only difference in not standing to me would be dating.

Toots asked a while back why men seem more ready to date sooner, im making the sweeping generalisation that its a combination of the following
- we are more impatient
- we have more fragile egos
- we need to fix whatever the problem is (in this case we're lonely)
- we're more competitive (need to win, either wife back or the breakup contest)
- we put more of our worth in being a provider/protector so we need someone to provide for / protect
- we are more prone to deal with issues by distraction/replacement etc.
- we over estimate how ready we are

That may all be nonsense but my feelings on why that might be

So pondering all of this and where it fits into my own personal (and recently updated) values, and to be honest was drifting toward a '&%$£ it - I might as well start dating because at least it would be more fun and feels like a better option than trying to reconcile with someone who has made me pretty unhappy'

Then today i came accross this quote which was attributed to John Stewart

'If you dont stick to your values when they're being tested, they're not values, they're hobbies.'

that felt like poignant timing to me.

[Mozza]

So pondering all of this and where it fits into my own personal (and recently updated) values, and to be honest was drifting toward a '&%$£ it - I might as well start dating because at least it would be more fun and feels like a better option than trying to reconcile with someone who has made me pretty unhappy'

I've also started a reflection on flirting and dating recently (around the 5-month mark) so I'll follow yours closely. I find interesting your list of reasons why men seem ready earlier than women (I'd be curious to see actual data, especially knowing my WAW has a head start of at least 5 months...). You haven't included a more pressing physical desire, why?

Then today i came accross this quote which was attributed to John Stewart

'If you dont stick to your values when they're being tested, they're not values, they're hobbies.'

that felt like poignant timing to me.

Let me share an idea that my IC told me months ago and that I haven't been able to get out of my mind: I have desires but I find excuses not to meet them because of interdicts/fears that I carry in me. He asked me, very early on, why I didn't want to seek other women. I told him I was afraid it would get in the way of R. Again, he challenged me saying that I was perhaps making up that excuse because I was afraid of my desires, especially now that the S had made them a possibility. Subjecting myself to rejection from women in whom I'm interested is now a very real possibility, so to avoid even the thought, I say that only my W is of interest to me. Or that I stand for my M. Or that it would push her farther away. Etc.

You're a self-described Nice Guy so it's also likely that you have a hard time acknowledging your needs and shamelessly seeking to meet them. Also, you often put your WAW on a pedestal in your posts, suggesting that she was too good for you, that you'll never find another woman who nearly as good. So, is it possible that you're actually very afraid of dating, of exposing yourself to judgement and rejection from a plethora of women?

Also, what are those values that make you "stand for your M" in the context that you described? Where do they come from?

[jim0987]

Hi Mozza, Some good questions there.

I was responding to someone elses observation about comments on these boards so i couoldnt say what the actual data says.

I will say from my own personal purely anecdotal experience guys tend to talk about relationships in terms of fun, excitement and meaning, where as women seem more about family and happiness.

I know my support network (male and female) has all said - take care of yourself, but dont rush into anything and you'll find someone else when your ready to (plus a lot of jokes about my lack of dating experience)

I also know my wifes support network (all female) were all 'you deserve someone who will make you happy', 'you should date', 'pursue OM1 because you deserve it' 'there is a guy out there for you'

as for the pressing physical desire, I have no idea whether its more pressing or not, I can only comment on how I feel and to be honest i've been pretty unsatisfied in that department for over 4 years now (the route of a lot of our M issues.)

I have desires but I find excuses not to meet them because of interdicts/fears that I carry in me.

for me you can add to the word desires, words like ambitions, goals, objectives, potential and all manner of other things. Its something I bought up with my IC that i want to explore more

so this is what i said to my IC
'I dont try because then i cant fail (be rejected) or if i do fail then i have the exuse that i wasnt really trying.'

So, is it possible that you're actually very afraid of dating, of exposing yourself to judgement and rejection from a plethora of women?

Definitely. I know i've said this before but I have never asked anyone out, never been on a date. I've been engaged twice but only once asked someone to marry me. So its a big unknown for me and i do fear that i'm not good/attractive/interesting enough.

Its why one of my friends suggested going speed dating, not to meet someone but just to get some practice at striking up conversation and working out what interests me (beyond are they interested in me)

I do sometimes put my wife on a pedestal but then again i believe she has some amazing qualities.

Also, what are those values that make you "stand for your M" in the context that you described? Where do they come from?

The top of this list is both straighforward and to me interesting. I made a commitment when i got married and i want to honour that commitment others my commitments dont mean anything AND i want my kids to have a single household with both parents.

Some of it i think comes from my childhood and the impact my parents divorce had on me, but also its about the image of my future that i had.

I want a lasting meaningful relationship with someone who shares my humour and makes small moments more enjoyable. I truly believed that was my wife.

[Vanilla]

Jim

I am seeing Jim as active and not 'passively standing by', Jim if you were applying Sandi guidelines then that is a very active thing. Nothing passive about DB, working on Jim is an active thing.

Some one new?

Meeting someone and interacting with them is about proximity, not meat market. I said this to Gg and I say it you, you only need one person you like to like you and you are off and running.

I will say this in the kindest way I can, I really hope you never have to date, that if R with W is no more then that someone you like likes you and away you go. Friendliness is not so hard and it strikes me you are excellent at it. The important part is the R part, the DB part not the best bib and tucker bit. I am sure that if you GAL then opportunities will arise, friends have friends etc.

It may surprise you but even V gets asked to go for coffee sometimes and makes it clear coffee only. Start with coffee, or a beer, and friendship and see what happens. It does not have to be full on.

Take it easy Jim, sex can be self satisfying too. Being with someone just for pleasure will I would like to bet be unsatisfying and I think because you are a deep person leave you with no real self esteem.

I was looking at my black toenail which happened about the same time as your argument between foot and wall, and was wondering if that had healed yet?

V

[jim0987]

Hi Vanilla,

The foot is a lot better now, thank you for asking. I tried to run on it and that didnt go well but i can do yoga and the like without too much discomfort. I'm intrigued by my variable flexibility - some is really good but apparently i've got no elasticity in my hamstrings and no strength in my abs (though the beginnings of a six pack).

I'm going to attempt to play squash again next week as that is on the toes and feels lighter footed compared to jogging. Kick boxing is still a ways off.

I say passive as I dont feel like I did anything since BD that truly gave me a better chance of saving my marriage, and for the most part I feel like I just rolled over and let it happen with some shameful craziness thrown in for good measure.

I'm clearer about what needed to be different prior to BD so I know for the future, but in truth I wont really now how embedded this is until its tested by a meaningful relationship.

The whole thing about dating is just swirling around as part of the questioning of when do I truly accept wife is gone for good, what does that look like for me and what do I then do differently?

Right now I just feel stuck, very clearly unwanted by wife but not clear what to do instead. my ego also doesnt like this feeling at all. I want to get to the position where I'm not futilly waiting and I'm not being held back by fear.

My social circle is amazing but small (and all couples) and there is limited opportunity to meet new people through work. So i need to give some more thought to what really getting a new life looks like rather than do as i have been which is taking care of myself and keeping busy.

Suggestions welcome

For a start I needd a plan for this weekend beyond catching up on sleep