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A Message from Michele
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Re: Complex #4 - D talk started / Detaching continues [Re: Mozza] #2534260
02/04/15 03:58 PM
02/04/15 03:58 PM
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Complex Offline OP
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Just read an article about the difference between love and infatuation.
What if the love between me and my W was just infatuation?
I'm sure that's what she is thinking, which makes it very real. And there's a lot of truth in it. She is right smirk
But then I made her the promise and married her. Didn't take enough care of her, and the love died fast and through all the pain I realized what went wrong, what I did wrong. Then when she was gone already I recommitted to my M, started to love my W the way I should. But it came too late and maybe her love really was just infatuated.
True or not, as long as she thinks that I have zero chance to save my marriage.
She basically first has to feel like I'm a good friend and then fall in love with me again.

Painful insight...I don't know what to think, it's a serious though, or if this should change my plan. Phew..


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


Re: Complex #4 - D talk started / Detaching continues [Re: Complex] #2534312
02/04/15 05:38 PM
02/04/15 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Complex
Just read an article about the difference between love and infatuation.
What if the love between me and my W was just infatuation?
I'm sure that's what she is thinking, which makes it very real. And there's a lot of truth in it. She is right smirk
But then I made her the promise and married her. Didn't take enough care of her, and the love died fast and through all the pain I realized what went wrong, what I did wrong. Then when she was gone already I recommitted to my M, started to love my W the way I should. But it came too late and maybe her love really was just infatuated.
True or not, as long as she thinks that I have zero chance to save my marriage.
She basically first has to feel like I'm a good friend and then fall in love with me again.

Painful insight...I don't know what to think, it's a serious though, or if this should change my plan. Phew..



Learn how people fall "in love". But remember you are not the problem here, she is. Perhaps you where always more infatuated with her than she was you. Some of this info will help you in current or future relationships.

Re: Complex #4 - D talk started / Detaching continues [Re: Complex] #2534324
02/04/15 06:11 PM
02/04/15 06:11 PM
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Starsky309 Offline
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It's a legitimate question, and I'll take only a slightly different angle on it, but I think it's an important thought to consider at this early stage in your relationship:

It's perfectly natural -- even typical -- for the endorphine-fueled, "in looove" infatuation to wane after 2-3 years. I think what you have to ask yourself is, "Is this a woman of quality and with sufficient emotional maturity that when infatuation wears off, she is capable of joining me on a marital walk where we take it to the next level (deepening emotional bond, increased shared memories and experiences, children, grandchildren, etc., etc.) and face life's challenges with me . . . or is she going to cut and run and seek the next 'high' in the rush of another affair? of drugs or alcohol? of some other short-term 'fix' of excitement?"

THAT to me is one of the underlying things about affairs you have to deal with: the whole "when the going got tough, what did she/he do?" thing.

Not easy questions to ask yourself, much less to answer I'm afraid.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Re: Complex #4 - D talk started / Detaching continues [Re: Starsky309] #2534409
02/04/15 09:06 PM
02/04/15 09:06 PM
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Yes. Not easy. Thanks for your point of view. The thing why I haven't given up yet is that W has a lot of depth in her thinking.
Everyone says that she IS different, mature, a very good soul. She has all the deep qualities.
But she just simply thinks we don't match. I didn't understand her well enough. I didn't let her be herself. But on a certain level the true HER might actually not fully meet my needs of a relationship. She knows that and it's supporting her thoughts. Hard to describe.
After all she definitely is worth fighting for. There is no doubt. If we can really make each other happy...that I just don't know. It'll be work on both sides, and right now I'm the only one doing any work. And it's not going to be easy, but I wanna know I've done everything I can, I want to love her, no matter of the outcome. And I know I'll be fine one day.


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


Re: Complex #4 - D talk started / Detaching continues [Re: Complex] #2534445
02/04/15 10:30 PM
02/04/15 10:30 PM
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Start by realizing that one can never "MAKE" another person happy. That's enmeshed, co-dependent thinking.

When you learn to view each other as the FROSTING on your own cake of life, full of your own passions, beliefs and interests . . . you will both be on a healthier emotional path. It took me a LONG time to learn this, and in some ways I'm STILL learning it, 8 years post-bomb and 7 years post-reconciliation.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Re: Complex #4 - D talk started / Detaching continues [Re: Starsky309] #2534487
02/05/15 12:33 AM
02/05/15 12:33 AM
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Good advice Starsky ^^^^.

I feel like I have begun to realize that I can only make myself happy a while ago and you are right that there is still a lot of learning to do.

I just wish my W was learning this also, Or worse yet maybe she is learning it and I am not going to be a part of her frosting. That would stink but it certainly is a great possibility.


Complex, stay strong!! It seems as if you are asking yourself some tough questions and I believe that is good. I did the same thing and it has helped me a great deal. I hope this insight you are working with will help you down the road.


Me 47/W 34
T 16 M 13
No kids
BD 6/2013
W asked that I move out 6/2013
I moved back and W is upset with this 12/2013
separate beds not much talking
Served D Complaint 5/2014
W moved out 9/27/2014
Re: Complex #4 - D talk started / Detaching continues [Re: Starsky309] #2534501
02/05/15 01:33 AM
02/05/15 01:33 AM
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I know Starsky, this is very true. It's something hard to learn. People always tend to depend their happiness on other people or circumstances.

The whole setup for me right now is just so frustrating but I think I got a good idea of what happened and what has to happen. I'm just still so in love with W.

I can't make a single mistake anymore feels like. And it's just becoming very technical what I have to do to postpone D in my own interest without looking needy. I'll get some attorney counseling soon. A friend of mine knows a woman, she's a mediator, he said she's an amazing person doing her job because she's coming from a heartwarming story of her own parents getting D. So maybe she can give me a good and legal view on things


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


Re: Complex #4 - D talk started / Detaching continues [Re: Complex] #2534536
02/05/15 04:07 AM
02/05/15 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: Complex
I know Starsky, this is very true. It's something hard to learn. People always tend to depend their happiness on other people or circumstances.

The whole setup for me right now is just so frustrating but I think I got a good idea of what happened and what has to happen. I'm just still so in love with W.

I can't make a single mistake anymore feels like. And it's just becoming very technical what I have to do to postpone D in my own interest without looking needy. I'll get some attorney counseling soon. A friend of mine knows a woman, she's a mediator, he said she's an amazing person doing her job because she's coming from a heartwarming story of her own parents getting D. So maybe she can give me a good and legal view on things


Right, you should not depend upon the other to make your happiness, but others CAN affect your level of happiness and satisfaction in the world. We do get to choose who our friends are.

Re: Complex #4 - D talk started / Detaching continues [Re: Complex] #2534632
02/05/15 02:48 PM
02/05/15 02:48 PM
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Starsky309 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Complex
I know Starsky, this is very true. It's something hard to learn. People always tend to depend their happiness on other people or circumstances.

The whole setup for me right now is just so frustrating but I think I got a good idea of what happened and what has to happen. I'm just still so in love with W.


Take this time apart to really do some introspection, and some reading on co-dependency, emotional enmeshment, and learn to grow comfortable in your own skin being alone.

Often us "Mr. Nice Guy"/pleaser/fixer/co-dependent types (and I am definitely one!) begin to conflate and confuse "love" with unhealthy "co-dependency." It's a deep topic that would take more time here than I have to give it right now, but I would urge you to really do some study and introspection on it.

LOVE is unconditional; MARRIAGE (or any other human interaction or relationship) . . . is not. At least it shouldn't be.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Re: Complex #4 - D talk started / Detaching continues [Re: Starsky309] #2534669
02/05/15 04:38 PM
02/05/15 04:38 PM
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Complex Offline OP
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I definitely will do that. It just sounds like me..
Thing is we still live under one roof. But she seems annoyed by it. Asking if I don't wanna rent a room somewhere. I told her I'm not leaving this place.
We can't even afford that but she is pushing physical separation and she might be right. I'm not sure what to do or say really..
She also is going to tell her parents this week...if she has the balls. I guess that's inevitable, maybe even a good thing compared to keep hiding to create a perfect exit plan by herself...!?


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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