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Originally Posted By: Complex
The way things went the last few days also caused sth bad. With the snooping etc. I actually might have done the final push for her to be out.
One of her last texts was "things are becoming very real now".
Since then she went dark on me.
Is that a good thing or no? It feels horrible to me bc even with what was going on she seemed to care about me and texted me on a daily basis.
Is that script how things just usually go down?

Sure I can also use it to focus on myself but it feels like I lost my power over the situation - which I probably never did.
But it's just like "now she's completely gone and I helped her"


Having the information IS power. Because before you were being fooled. Today you are learning more and more what you are really dealing with. Like what we said about intel, it's best not to reveal intel.

You might alert her family know if you are friends with them that there is some trouble in the relationship, but don't try to get them to take your side.

Take care of your physical person and appearance and be responsible in your life. Right now the current wife is dishonest and is not working with you. You might get small nuggets here and there from her, but you cannot count on it.

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Complex,

please notice that I asked you a lot of questions (before and herein).

Try to answer the questions asked, okay?



Originally Posted By: Complex
The way things went the last few days also caused sth bad.

Can you elaborate on this^^? I am not clear on your meaning.


With the snooping etc. I actually might have done the final push for her to be out.


That's always a risk with snooping. Did you say you had read the books, Divorce Busting and or, Divorce Remedy?

The books explain why snooping can be a bad idea. What do you think now? Can you STOP Snooping? Seriously, can you? I'm not being sarcastic.

You already knew of the affair, so what is the point, now, of MORE snooping?



One of her last texts was "things are becoming very real now".
Since then she went dark on me.
Is that a good thing or no?



Well, if you dig a little, you can probably see that it's not "good" thing when the WAS pulls away even more. But no, it's not fatal. I can't say what she means by "more real". What was the context of that comment?


Complex, You need to actually USE the Div Busting tools and Not just read about them. This approach to helping marriages in crisis, and it is Not something you just think about doing.

You have to DO it. Or resign your marriage. Figure out what you want to do, and then ask yourself a harder question.

What are you willing to do,
to save your marriage, knowing that all your efforts might still fail?

From where I sit, you have not done any of the Div Busting techniques. So you cannot say that DB is not working.

Are you willing to try the techniques? What do you have to lose, that you're not already losing?

It feels horrible to me bc even with what was going on she seemed to care about me and texted me on a daily basis.
Is that script how things just usually go down?

You snooped and you got caught. THAT piece of it isn't that 'usual" b/c a lot of spouses do not snoop. And many who learn of an affair, Stop snooping once they know.

You kept on snooping and I still don't think you know why you do what you do. That needs to change.

What are the traits of yours, that YOU WANT to change? Let's start there.


Sure I can also use it to focus on myself but

Newsflash...you can ONLY focus on yourself b/c there is no one else you can control. You must only focus on yourself b/c you have to let her go for now.

The word "But",^^^ means the next piece of your sentence is nonsense. You are negating the first clause.

Meaning, you use the word "but" -- to contradict what you just said. That's because you do not want to focus on yourself,

and you keep on making this about what SHE is doing.

But now, this is all about what YOU are doing. Did you really read the book?
It puts the burden on us to change ourselves. That's the biggest single reason that divorce busting CAN work.

Because it's about us working on the only people we ever had control over; ourselves.


it feels like I lost my power over the situation - which I probably never did.


Since you never ever had control over your wife, that's not an actual loss.

As for the "Situation" , well, you were provided some options, but you did not use the DB techniques. You snooped and pursued.

Did you do any of the behaviors listed in the Newbie "rules"? (They are not "rules" so much as guidelines. All based on Michelle Weiner-Davis's books. And not all of the guidelines fit all situations, of course. But they are a good start).

I'm not trying to scold you. I'm trying to get you to focus your energy where it belongs and where it will do the most good.

Complex, if you become a man only a fool would leave, that helps you no matter what your wife chooses to do. Do you agree?

So let's get that program started.


But it's just like "now she's completely gone and I helped her"



You gave her reason to detach and distance herself more. True.

That doesn't mean she won't approach you again, later on. When she does, you must NOT snoop or pursue. Can you restrain yourself from doing that?

I'd use the guidelines for your guidance and FINISH reading the Div Busting book or the Div Remedy book (I prefer the second one, but have read both, more than once).

What's the present situation from a Legal standpoint? Has anyone filed anything? What are your citizenship issues, if any?

What is happening now, between the two of you and what did she say last?


I'm not clear on all of that, so I can't be more specific til I know.

But nothing is over and done. Besides, even if it were, there are still paths to follow.

Meaning, I have two family members who actually divorced each other, and then later on, remarried their former spouses.

So yes, it happens. (It was not "fast". It took a few years and they each changed and worked on themselves in the mean time. IF I recall correctly, none of them expected to reconcile. But they DID make changes in themselves)

You need to do at least 3 things now.

1) Read the book(s) to the end. Process it, take in the information and suggestions.

2) GAL. Meaning, start something, join something, explore something, DO something new and different, that you enjoy, for you.

You cannot detach, without GAL. GAL starts out to help you heal, and then to detach, & to become a happier, more upbeat person.

Even though this is for YOU, the fact is that a happier, more upbeat person is also a more attractive person.

3) Do your 180s. What are they?

We know you want to restore or rebuild your new marriage. We get that. That's your over all "big picture", goal.

There are steps along the way to achieving that goal. Some short term goals.

What are yours? The 180s are nice and simple, though not necessarily "easy".

One short term goal of yours (and most LBSers) is to:

CONTRAST the negative images your wife has or used to justify leaving,

with new different positives images of you.


So if she used to believe you were "always late", you will now be "Mr Punctual"!!

You will arrive early or on time for everything.

That^^ is a simplified example of a "180," that could be used to change the image a spouse has of their spouse. What are examples of yours?

You want her to believe that there is "new data" about you. OR that her data wasn't that accurate to begin with,

(but it's usually easier to convince someone of your changes & new behaviors, than to convince them that their views of you were never valid. )


Either way, the point is that you are NOT the way she believed you were.

So, if she were here, what would SHE SAY if she were here, about you?

Try to use specifics, & it'll be easier for us to help and advise. Okay?

Just b/c she SAYS something about you needs changing, may not mean it does. But whatever her complaints were, IF there are some that YOU yourself want to change, that's a great place to begin your changes.

Again, remember, Becoming the best man you can become, is the FIRST GOAL b/c no matter what else might happen, that's a victory for you.


Div Busting is different from most marriage problem approaches in 2 important ways.

1) it's solution based, so they focus on what helps you today, not what happened years ago or in childhood.

(Those issues can be important but they do not matter in terms of what you may need to do TODAY, to help your marriage. And they can best be solved with therapy for those issues, not your behavior right now)

Don't get bogged down in asking "WHY??" so much as WHAT YOU MUST DO, for now.

Plus, usually asking a lot of questions that have no "good" or satisfying answer, detracts from where you should be focussed, which is on yourself.

2) Div Busting puts the primary focus on OUR OWN GROWTH and improvement.

That often leads to us becoming better partners and that helps our relationships. It's something with a definite "pay off" b/c no matter what our spouse does, or chooses, we are better people for having done this work.

Do you understand? That's why we often say "save yourself first, then the marriage".

You can do both, and I know that is what you want.

But you cannot save the marriage without doing your own personal work. Start with yourself.


Make sense?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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I will sit down and answer ALL questions when I'm back home. I'll sit down with a pen and take myself a lot of time with it.
I'm just out of town for work and super busy. Very long days. Maybe tonight at the hotel.

The question how to deal with family is just a technical one. Because I basically don't know what's right to do with FIL.

Another actually important question came up today, which I need an answer for:
What IF my wife actually completely opens up when I get home and tells me th full truth? (She might bc she knows I snooped and might know more than I actually say)


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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Full truth meaning "I got feelings for OM for long time, really love him, want to be with him, that's why I want D. I don't wanna cheat on you and I want to wait until we are D because it is very serious between him and me".


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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Posts: 561
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And YES I won't focus on W or OM or whatsoever anymore but myself.. I know by now if I don't get a real 180 done, I have zero chance.
BUT I need some technical advise how to respond to certain things and how to properly DB handle certain situations.
Thanks


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 561
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Another thing 25yearsmic:
I can not thank you enough for your help!!!


Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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Originally Posted By: Complex
And YES I won't focus on W or OM or whatsoever anymore but myself.. I know by now if I don't get a real 180 done, I have zero chance.

So, what actions(not words) are you going to take, to do a 180?
Starting when? Why?



BUT I need some technical advise how to respond to certain things and how to properly DB handle certain situations.
Thanks



A whole lot of those circumstances will either never come up (so your time spent on worrying is wasted. Time that should have been spent on the changes you want to make)

If you finish the book(s) most of your questions^^, will be answered.


As for what your wife says...okay, So, when your wife says

{{WHATEVER SHE SAYS}]

YOU LISTEN... and see what you can learn about HER perceptions and HER hopes and HER dreams. Maybe she will tell you what was missing in the marriage, maybe she doesn't really know, but whatever it was, she feels she has it now.

You validate what she says. That's NOT to say you must agree.


Validating does Not = agreement.


Validation means you attempt to understand what she is telling you. You can re-cap it, repeat back to her what you hear her saying. "So w, what I hear you saying is that 'x' is important and you feel that need is met. Is that what you mean, w?" Show her that you really want to understand her wants.


IF she says "OM really gets me. HE knows what I like and WE have so much in common!...."

You can say "I can see how that would make you feel good".

It's not about you; it's not about OM; it is about HER.
You do Not argue with her about what YOU have in common with her.

No arguments.
You cannot argue your way back into a marriage or love.

As I asked earlier, what has she told you, specifically?

If you can't answer that, I don't know how helpful my words are going to be.

I know you are busy at the moment but something tells me you have the urge to take short cuts here.

This isn't the place or situation for shortcuts. The only way past this pain is through it.

But things do get better. I know that.

So, back to YOU...


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
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Originally Posted By: Complex
Another thing 25yearsmic:
I can not thank you enough for your help!!!


No problem Complex. When I was here there were some VERY helpful people.

They were noble people as far as I'm concerned. To this day, I'm grateful for them. Anything I do here is but a token of what they did for me and my m and children.

Good luck, keep posting and learning. The only good thing about this ordeal is our personal growth, but that is no small thing.



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 1
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Originally Posted By: Complex
Is that a good thing or no? It feels horrible to me bc even with what was going on she seemed to care about me and texted me on a daily basis.
Is that script how things just usually go down?

One thing you've got to understand is that things will get much worse before they get better. Most successful reconciliations around here took 8 to 24 months. During that period, things that you don't like at all will happen. The EA might turn into a PA. She'll tell you it's over. She or you might move out. She might move in with OM. She might move out of state. Her family may support S, or not care, or may have no influence even if they oppose S. Your WAW is going full speed ahead out of your M.

I'm telling you this so that you can start to be more patient. Don't wonder every day if this is the final straw, the nail in the coffin. You won't know. People who reconciled have often gone through D for instance. I know I'm headed there and I take it as part of a normal sitch.

Remember: we're already dead. It's not like your W is still M to you in her head. She's moved on and she's convinced. She has a rationale that explains why she no longer wants to be with you. It's awfully hard to understand because you think you're still in a R with her.

Try to imagine a reconciliation scenario, but make sure to include a part where things get worse, much worse. You need to build the patience and strength for when that happens. Do not imagine that, for instance, next week her parents will find out and she'll repent and come back to you right away. Remember also that the only thing that will bring her back to you is love. Not shaming, not pity. Love. That's why we tell you to work on yourself, to become a more attractive man.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Honestly, that was beautiful, Mozza.

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