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Sometimes, somethings just need to be said.

And for now his answer has you feeling a bit better which is a wonderful thing.

Here is the thing that I see that bothers me the most (and I see it because I have experienced it)...neither of you were really ready to reconcile. When that is the case it makes the work that much harder.

You were never really detatched, you had only begun to feel better about your situation and that was due more to some external validation than anything else IMO. (Which isn't always a bad thing.)

So if neither of you were ready, and problems weren't resolved or really even begun to be worked on by either of you, then after the honeymoon period was over, it easily went back to the way it was pre bomb.

So more than anything, I urge you to continue to work on your stuff and let him work on his stuff and give the marriage the time it needs to heal. And understand more than anything that it is going to be one step forward and two steps back for a while. And that is ok.

I am not saying be a doormat. What I am saying is day by day.

A friend of mine had a mantra that he used every day and others borrowed over the years...I think it is appropriate in this situation...

Today is not the day I quit.
No matter what, I can handle whatever happens today.
Tomorrow, I might change my mind, but today I do not quit.

(nickle bonehead smile )



"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
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Quote:
Today is not the day I quit.
No matter what, I can handle whatever happens today.
Tomorrow, I might change my mind, but today I do not quit.


Thanks for this Cat.

TO: As I mentioned I am hanging with you this week. As Cat mentions, you might not have been ready to reconcile nor H. I can tell you, I thought we were ready back in 2008 and we did start the path and bc we had 6 years of personal turmoile (miscarriage, baby death, family illness) we had great years...the heaviness of our life actually brought us together. But when it settled, the same issues came up again...we applied DB during our un happy times and it was natural, but happy times we went back to our old ways.

Nothing is more important now to me (and maybe H) to get this right and break the cycle. I am trying to give him all the space he needs, which includes him staying at another place every night, which I trust is our other home 2 hours away. He says it is, but I am not asking. Killing me--you bet. Behind the scenes: I am also hoping that H calls our DB Coach and then we will have a joint call with DB coach. I am not re-asking if H has scheduled with DB Coach. Again, these are hard for me as I am very impatient and H and I both like to fix things. I now know the true hard work is beginning.

One thing I am working on, what is what is needed, to let him have an equal voice in this relationship. I do this with H as much as I can, which is not that much right now.

Quote:
So more than anything, I urge you to continue to work on your stuff and let him work on his stuff and give the marriage the time it needs to heal. And understand more than anything that it is going to be one step forward and two steps back for a while. And that is ok.


Let us know what you think about if you came back too soon and what you think of the above advice from Cat.

Last edited by happy1; 01/17/15 04:17 PM.
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Thanks for always checking on me Sandi

I know everyone has said do nothing so I'm trying to find that balance. As many of you can see it's really not my personality to be walked over. With the changes I've made I've tried to approach things differently than I have in the past. For ex: coming home the other night and saying nothing

But he needs to know that I am not going to be treated like this for ever. It's time to shape up. I am trying to be compassionate and understanding to his feelings.... It's hard. I think I could be more understanding to the stress and depression if he was treating me with respect.

So in regards to me telling him I don't know how to help him and I would if he asked. I'm tryig to figure this out because I see what you're saying that I believe he knows he 'has' me and can treat me like crap and here I am still wanting to help him. But a HUGE gripe for him that be brought up over and over in Mc is that I said his debt was his debt his problems where his I didn't want to be apart of fixing things that he created during our S. Which his EXCUSE for taking care of things on his own (or lack there of) and not involving me because I told him in the beginning it was his sandbox. However we've had concersations since and he still uses the excuse of I said I didn't want a part of it.

The MC definitely called him on his stuff during C. Saying that I deserve him to be honest with me and I deserve him to be sleeping next to me every night with the phone off and on the nightstand. I deserve to be able to go through his phone and no it shouldn't be for ever but it's going to take time. He said if it's still going on a year from now then we have something to talk about.


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Cat -

I think our biggest mistake was just being happy and feeling everything would fall into place. We went to MC 3 times.... In our sessions we were just talking about everything that happened during S. It was a lot of trust, current plans, discussion of should H move back in, etc

We should have continued going. At our last session the beginning of October he said next time we need to talk about what got both of you to the point of separation so that we can avoid it again in the future. He wanted to figure out what are big issues were with each other and how we could fix them.

So MC for is just talked about S and trust issues and we hadn't gotten to the big long issues that we needed to work on.

Last week MC told us he wants to see us together weekly and individually weekly for at least 6 weeks and then we will reevaluate if we still need IC or just MC and if we can space it to every 2 weeks.

I think I have a lot to work on still but I have made some big changes and he hasn't really made any. I get frustrated that the person he was to come home seems to have disappeared.

I don't want excuses anymore - I want results! Lol

But seriously I am willing to do all of my part but I need someone that wants to do their half.


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I don't know your MC, T, but I like him.


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Me too ... And H likes him so it's a win win

Plus he likes H. .. The first time he met him he said he believes H has struggled with depression and was just in a bad environment and didn't know how to cope with it and made poor choices- and he didn't say it in a way that he was excusing his behavior he was just wanting me to know he thinks H is a good person down under his mistakes. He said he's been doing his for 30 years and would tell me (this was during IC) if he felt I should run for the hills.

One of my friends used to see him - he told her after a few sessions to run for the hills. So glad she did! She is now happily married to a great guy and her ex is still cheating on every GF he has.

I don't know if you remember (I wouldnt expect you to) but the first MC we went to was terrible! My C wanted to call her himself. In our first MARRIAGE counseling session. She said it seems you two have grown apart instead of together. If divorce is what one of you wants I can help you get there. That's verbatim what she said. H started going to see her alone and that was that.


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Oh good Lord. I think I *do* remember that - or at least the nuts and bolts.

I'm glad you found a MUCH better one!

I agree with your MC, too: I think you can see a pattern of behavior in your H where he makes really bad choices when he's stressed or under pressure. And, no, that's certainly not an excuse for his bad behavior. It's an observation.

The rub is: Your H is the one that has to recognize he needs to make some changes in himself ... and then he has to make the choice to make them. And one of your 180s could be in how you support that. (Basically, letting H figure it out on his own and letting him clean up his own messes.)

As an aside, the whole thing about you placing a boundary on your/family money not being used to pay-off the poor choices he made during his A? You said that was one of his big gripes to MC. Not taking responsibility for his own actions - and instead pointing a finger at someone else for his own bad behavior - is *another* pattern I'm seeing in your H. "She's snooping on my phone, so I started sleeping with my phone in my pocket." (You wouldn't feel the need to snoop if HE hadn't cheated.) And he's griped about YOU leaving him on his own to pay off debt he created while he was in an A? (That debt wouldn't exist if HE hadn't cheated.) I know I'm probably preaching to the choir on that one, but it was just a thought that occurred to me ...

But back to the original point: One concern is just how much work REAL piecing requires. And how stressful it is. At least in my experience, it's been the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Again, I "pieced" in 2006 after H's first A that started in late 2005, but we did it wrong. I actually wrote on my own thread last night:

Quote:
That "reconciliation" felt so EASY and NATURAL. I've learned that should have been the first sign that we weren't doing it right.


THIS time has been brutal by comparison. And, from where I sit, the piecing process is a lot harder on the XWAS (in your case, your H) than it is on the XLBS (you). It has been very stressful for my H. He says the guilt is sometimes overwhelming. The shame, the internal/self-directed rage, etc. Then there's the stress of thinking *I* am going to leave *him* ... the stress of watching me cry and try to wrestle with my own demons and doubts and questions ... the stress of dealing with the angry outbursts I had in the beginning ...

I think - if your H is committed and determined - that he can pull it off. But he hasn't shown the best track-record lately of being committed or determined ... or being able to operate well or make healthy choices under stress.

It's very clear that you are willing to keep your side of the street clean, T. That hasn't been an issue since I started reading your sitch many moons ago. Your H has a lot of work to do. But he has to decide to do it. And then get it done, knowing it will be "progress, not perfection." You're a good reason for him to do it. smile

Oh, and just to add to sandi's mention of you "helping" H; one of my favorite quotes:

"Do not deny someone the dignity of their own struggle."

Think about that one. It's a short quote but PACKED with power and possibility and opportunity.


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Originally Posted By: T0324
Me too ... And H likes him so it's a win win

Plus he likes H. .. --

This^^ is huge. And fortunate.


I don't know if you remember (I wouldnt expect you to) but the first MC we went to was terrible! My C wanted to call her himself. In our first MARRIAGE counseling session. She said it seems you two have grown apart instead of together. If divorce is what one of you wants I can help you get there. That's verbatim what she said. H started going to see her alone and that was that.



Wait, what?? WOW...

That is the worst "advice" I've ever seen, which is saying a lot.

Can you get your money back, and then throw an egg at the office window?

Do a "yelp" review or something. Warn people away...

OMG


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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Originally Posted By: Train
Oh good Lord. I think I *do* remember that - or at least the nuts and bolts.

I'm glad you found a MUCH better one!

I agree with your MC, too: I think you can see a pattern of behavior in your H where he makes really bad choices when he's stressed or under pressure. And, no, that's certainly not an excuse for his bad behavior. It's an observation.

The rub is: Your H is the one that has to recognize he needs to make some changes in himself ... and then he has to make the choice to make them. And one of your 180s could be in how you support that. (Basically, letting H figure it out on his own and letting him clean up his own messes.)

As an aside, the whole thing about you placing a boundary on your/family money not being used to pay-off the poor choices he made during his A? You said that was one of his big gripes to MC. Not taking responsibility for his own actions - and instead pointing a finger at someone else for his own bad behavior - is *another* pattern I'm seeing in your H. "She's snooping on my phone, so I started sleeping with my phone in my pocket." (You wouldn't feel the need to snoop if HE hadn't cheated.) And he's griped about YOU leaving him on his own to pay off debt he created while he was in an A? (That debt wouldn't exist if HE hadn't cheated.) I know I'm probably preaching to the choir on that one, but it was just a thought that occurred to me ...

But back to the original point: One concern is just how much work REAL piecing requires. And how stressful it is. At least in my experience, it's been the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Again, I "pieced" in 2006 after H's first A that started in late 2005, but we did it wrong. I actually wrote on my own thread last night:

Quote:
That "reconciliation" felt so EASY and NATURAL. I've learned that should have been the first sign that we weren't doing it right.


THIS time has been brutal by comparison. And, from where I sit, the piecing process is a lot harder on the XWAS (in your case, your H) than it is on the XLBS (you). It has been very stressful for my H. He says the guilt is sometimes overwhelming. The shame, the internal/self-directed rage, etc. Then there's the stress of thinking *I* am going to leave *him* ... the stress of watching me cry and try to wrestle with my own demons and doubts and questions ... the stress of dealing with the angry outbursts I had in the beginning ...

I think - if your H is committed and determined - that he can pull it off. But he hasn't shown the best track-record lately of being committed or determined ... or being able to operate well or make healthy choices under stress.

It's very clear that you are willing to keep your side of the street clean, T. That hasn't been an issue since I started reading your sitch many moons ago. Your H has a lot of work to do. But he has to decide to do it. And then get it done, knowing it will be "progress, not perfection." You're a good reason for him to do it. smile

Oh, and just to add to sandi's mention of you "helping" H; one of my favorite quotes:

"Do not deny someone the dignity of their own struggle."

Think about that one. It's a short quote but PACKED with power and possibility and opportunity.




Great post^^...lots of gems there.

Piecing for me, was harder than everything else. (Which was an unpleasant surprise)

And it wasn't a picnic for my kids either. I had no idea that by not bringing them along the ride, they'd feel left out. THEY didn't see the Retrovaille retreat, and THEY didn't hear h's regrets, which were profound.

Today, years later, we are dealing with their perceptions and feelings and unanswered questions.

But I digress. T0, this^^ is good stuff.

Keep up your own work. As this^^ implies, it's all YOU can do anyhow. No small feat, and you'll be better off as a woman, regardless of what he chooses.

I am "sending" you chunks of patience b/c you will need it.



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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I wish 25...

Train - he feels that he's 'owned' his faults. He 'doesn't want to live in the past he knows he was an idiot and made terrible mistakes but he wants to move forward not backward.'

Ugh and I took the bait today.

He's been gone all day. I called him about kids and logistics. Asked him how the conversation with his boss went about getting me the money he owes.

He said they didn't have time to talk about it. They will talk next week (this has been the case since October) and that he doesn't want the headache. There's nothing he can do about it right now and basically were screwed

I was not having that. I said how is it fair that they just keep our money and we deal with it. There's nothing in writing (I KNOW). So I just have to suck it up and lose the money. That's something I haven't accepted yet

H told me he's sick of arguing with me. (Ummm okay.. We haven't talked about this since the text issue the other night and before that I've kept a lid on it). So basically I'm supposed to say nothing and just hope it gets resolved because he's stressed and doesn't want to deal with it.

I feel defeated and done. I just want a D. I don't want to live my life like this and with someone that could give 2 shits about my feelings.


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