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Well I conquered a wobbly crow. I still need to work on it. For now though, it's time for a new thread. Time for a new goal.

One of my biggest weaknesses remains communication. At BD H said that I don’t listen. On further reflection I’ve come to think that this is more to do with the fact that I don’t hear the meaning behind his words. He also used to say that I made him feel like he couldn't be sad. I come from a wonderful family with a "she'll be right, mate" attitude. That's been a valuable asset post-BD as it contributes to me knowing that I will be OK regardless of the outcome. But it makes me crappy at validating others when they express their feelings. So before the end of this thread, my goal is to make some progress towards developing my empathetic listening skills and improve my ability to VALIDATE others.

The title of my thread is in reference to Non-Violent Communication (NVC) which I have read and will return to for direction. If anyone has any other recommendations for resources on communication I am all giraffe ears.

Old threads here.

Continued thanks to all who stop by to post on my thread.

... ... ... ...
Quick summary for those just joining: limited contact punctuated by awkward meetups where I show off PMA and he brings up the R. Key conversations and phrases below:

(2 June, H moves out)
- 28 June, he says "he doesn't want to be alone but that he doesn't want to be unhappy either." He seems stressed/angry. Thanked me for giving him space.
- 12 August, he seems emotional, said it makes him sad to see me, he brought up R and I reinforced my position that I still wanted M
- 28 Sept, he seems less emotional, says "it's nice to see me", "it's not you, its the relationship" and "IF we were to get involved again the R would have to be very different. Right now I don't see how that can happen."
(3 October, I move into my own place)
- 25 Oct, he says "it's nice to see me," "sorry, doesn't have much to say." No R talk.
- 22 Dec, he seems frustrated. He explains that this is not what he imagined - me going on holidays by myself and "not that he thinks things should be different" but just that it makes him sad. He says "maybe some day we'll get together and it will be fun…" but something to the effect that tonight was not that night. He says "People don't change”. I said (in a calm voice) it would be useful to understand more specifically what he thinks would need to change. He responded by saying he didn't want to sit there and make me feel bad and that "maybe we would talk about it later”. He says: "You're an amazing person" but "You're not a good match for me" "I'm not a good match for you.” Suggests we meet again in February.

While I generally have enough self control to not initiate contact unless I am deliberately testing the waters, I still struggle to detach emotionally some days. In part that is because our meetups tend to suggest that he hasn’t detached. There are still enough references to the future to feed my hopes, even if he can’t see a way back to the R right now. I need to trust in the process, work on my changes and demonstrate them to him when we meetup.

... ... ...

So my plan from here:
- Wait for him to initiate contact (likely February)
- Yoga 3X week, daily meditation practice (need to renew my commitment to the latter as I let it slip a bit over the holidays)
- Seek opportunities to practice NVC
- GAL


H 37 Me 36
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Married 5 years
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BD Apr 2014
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The whole meaning behind his words, he might be not such a good coumuncuator like my h.

Who insisted on double meanings hints inundo and complicated communications if I tryed to even remotely express any thing, I was yelled at and told don't intrupt me I'm talking. Not strictly true, yelling mono log mainly.

I take words at face value more, often get In stitches where I was just too literal. Trained by h. This means x and later when I re write history it will mean shite for clay.

Sorry, but I've been doing replies to the L. Bit meeeehhhhh. As it raining as well.


M 46 h54
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T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
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Just back from GAL with a high school friend I haven't seem in 15 or so years. It's funny how easy it is to pick up where you left off with some people. Nothing like a bit of dancing to Brazilian music to start the week off.

Gg, it's true, H is not a great communicator. But I can only control me. So my aim is to develop skills that make it easier for him (and other people) to talk to me...while also learning to hear the message rather than focus on how I intend to reply if that makes sense. I'm a bit of a feisty communicator. Through my meditation practice I've learned to be a bit more controlled and less reactive, but I need to take this further and learn to listen and show that I am listening.

Sorry to hear about your meh day. Looks like its going to a grey week here, which never helps. We just need to keep moving one step in front of the other.


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Yes, you can work on you. If they however are delivering a clouded or muddy message the best communicator will still end up confused.

Not sure where I read it but often people get hung up on learning skills, when perhaps actions are required. If his message isn't delivered or he meant something totally different you having great skills isn't going to matter.

And crapola, I haven't explianed that very well.

My h was a very wordy talker, in fact h tatic was not to allow others to speak.
In this case validation and action, of simply taking it on board.
might have been more conducive rather than me offering to fix stuff, or trying to engage in better dialogue.


M 46 h54
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T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
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Interesting. H just replied to my birthday text from a week ago. Now *that* was unexpected.

Something to the effect of being jet lagged and only really feeling normal again today. Hopes I'm well.

Just sitting back and watching...


H 37 Me 36
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That's some jet lag!!!

I like the giraffe ears image.

What you said about hearing the message rather than thinking about the response is a really good philosophy. I too often am planning what I'm going to say that I only get the message a but later when I've caused more upset by responding to my angst rather than what was said.

So how wobbly was the crow pose?


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
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Hey Jim,

Yeah, I'm curious to know what made it occur to him to reply one week later, midway through a work day. WTFK. I didn't respond...but my mind fantasised about the amazing exchange we could have had. I'm clearly not detached enough as I was down all last week and with his response this week I am back on top.

Wobbly crow lasts about 3 seconds before I crumble or do a face plant. I'm cutting myself some slack though as a bunch of moooooses showed up at the end of my thread (in a nice kind of way - thank you) ;-)

So the giraffe image is actually pretty cool. I've been watching some of the NVC videos on youtube and the author uses puppets to explain his ideas. The giraffe (communicates "non-violently") is talking to a jackal (communicates "violently"). When he's talking about how to listen, he literately puts on a headband with giraffe or jackal ears on top! As someone who works in education, I appreciate the teaching approach. Definitely gets the point across and improves retention.

When we put our giraffe ears on all we hear are feelings and unmet needs. Not criticism or other things that put us on the defensive. With NVC the response is "Are you feeling [guess at their feeling] because you have a need to [guess at that need]?" The idea being that (1) you are showing empathy, (2) the person on the other end will try to explain their POV again if you've not quite got it, and (3) it fosters connection since you are seeking mutual understanding. All good in concept but I bet it takes a lot of practice. I think I mentioned that there are some NVC practice groups near me that I am looking into.


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BD Apr 2014
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Actually the videos are worth a look. Pretty entertaining in a LOL kind of way in some places.

e.g. (you have to picture puppets talking to each other)

Jackal: Do you love me?
Giraffe: When you say love, do you mean love as in the feeling - light and fluffy in the chest?
Jackal: Yes, of course!
Giraffe: I just wanted to to be sure I understand what you mean, because we giraffe's think of love as a need not a feeling*. But you mean the feeling.
Jackal: (annoyed) Yes - the feeling!
Giraffe: OK I'm glad I got that straight. Ask me again.
Jackal: (more annoyed) DO YOU LOVE ME?
Giraffe: When?
Jackal: What do you mean when?!
Giraffe: Well, if you mean the feeling then....feelings change....so I have to know when.
Jackal: (even more annoyed) Now! I MEAN DO YOU LOVE ME NOW?!
Giraffe: We'll, no.....

(in the above example the giraffe comes off as sounding annoying...but the point is really that the giraffe is coming from a position of seeking mutual understanding while the jackal is using "violent" methods to communicate and not the result they were hoping for)

* Interesting distinction, don't you think?


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But it still sounds like an argument is guna happen. Due them Both being on a different page.


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Relationship advice expressed through puppets definitely works for me.

I think its a big distinction but as GGrass says that still ends in an argument.

I feel (and there is me making a distinction) like that's one passive aggressive giraffe. In fact I think if you watch more closely that poor jackal is being gaslighted and the giraffe is using the jackals comparative emotional immaturity to manipulate him.

I bet he is an evil giraffe that eats all the leaves from the tree...

I think the giraffe would have been better to say

'Do you mean the light fluffy heart skips a beat feeling of love, or the committed to you and share my life with you deep connection love? Because although they are connected we giraffes see them as different.'


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
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