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Re: This can't be the end! [Re: edz] #2527841
01/16/15 03:31 PM
01/16/15 03:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
UK
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Barry Offline OP
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Barry  Offline OP
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Posts: 194
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Thanks for your reply Edz.

I was actively looking for this type of forum where i could get some advice, support, and general suggestions from like-minded people on how they coped with what's going on and what worked for them/what didn't. I've read some helpful suggestions so far (GAL,Detach,180 etc)...it's putting them into practice that i'm currently struggling to do even though I know that they're all good advice.

I know what my faults have been and what part I've played in how we got here so I know what things I need to work on, but my mind is reeling from it all so much at the moment it's hard to focus on myself.
I'm just trying to work on the smaller attainable goals at the moment.

I'll take a look at your thread shortly. I was hoping someone would come along where there isn't evidence of an OM. I do think that that applies to my situation too. I've had a few replies where people have suggested that there is an OM or of cheating already, and although I concede that I need to try and prepare myself for the possiblilty (which i'm struggling to do as well), I honestly don't think that's the case at the moment.

No offence to the ones that did say that, I'm sure that in a lot of cases it IS true and I'm sure you're only trying to get give me a reality check.

I'm sorry, i don't know how to put the proper quote box into a post, but where you said...

You need to detach, a word you will hear again and again and then again then you'll hear it again.

This doesnt mean giving up, not caring, not loving her, not wanting to be back together or the 100 other things you will tell yourself as to why you're not detaching. It means you will do all of the above but you wont make drawing every breath in your day about missing her.

That is exactly what i need to do! I don't want to give up but I do miss her litteraly every minute of the day - even though she's hurt me so much. I can't help loving her.

You're right that I am worrying about what's in W's mind and it is driving me round the twist. I'm trying not to let it but it's the most difficult thing I've ever experienced. I'm sure that's the same for anyone going through this.

I haven't read DB/DR yet, I'm going to order them as it seems like they are a must for a LBS!

I have made enquiries for counciling and I'm also going to attend an emotional wellbeing course (doesn't start until February 26th though) which sounds like it may be up my street too. I'm in the UK, i've added that to the sidebar.

Again, thanks for the response.

Barry


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
Re: This can't be the end! [Re: Barry] #2527855
01/16/15 04:00 PM
01/16/15 04:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,942
UK
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edz Offline
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edz  Offline
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No worries Barry,

I'll catch up on your thread this evening still in the middle of bits of work this afternoon.

As I said no evidence of OM in my sitch, wife could of course announce she has one and he's moving in at any minute, think the guys are trying to get you to understand that we as lbs will be the absolute last to know their intentions behind friends, family and probably people they meet at the shops. Also, as Cadet says above, if there isnt the reality of it all may take longer to appear than if its a case of being drawn away by a fantasy, if ever it does.

When waw/wah go they have already decided upon their actions and prepped themselves for it, part of that is isolating us from their intentions, not to hurt us - in my w's case she kept saying she didnt want to hurt me - but because its a necessary step in their plan or script, thats a truth its hard to get your head wrapped around but its important you do or detaching will be much more difficult as you tie yourself in knots wondering why they havent told you something.

Definitely get and read DB/DR in my view they have been very very useful (NB I have not resolved my sitch either way, w and I are living apart so I am not a veteran so temper my advice with the knowledge im a reative newbie at all this) but Ive found the forum invaluable not just for advice but also the emotional support it offers.

Ah you're in the UK ok cool, helps to know so I dont tell you something regarding, say the NHS, and find you're in antarctica!

BTW you can book councelling through your doctor surgery via NHS how long it takes to get it will depend on where you are etc. Also if you have, say, bupa healthcare etc through work check if they offer emotional councelling, in my case they did and it was extremely helpful.

Take it easy.


M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
W coming closer, talking 4/2015
Piecing 5/2015
Moving in again 6/2015
Re: This can't be the end! [Re: theoden] #2527929
01/16/15 07:00 PM
01/16/15 07:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 63
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Vince H Offline
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Vince H  Offline
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Originally Posted By: theoden
Barry,

Sorry you are here.

1. If your wife isn't cheating, then you will have an easier go at this.

2. That being said, it sounds like she's cheating. The ILYBINILWY speech usually means she is in love with someone else OR she wants to be soon. It means that though you may be a good provider and father, you aren't the LOVER/PARTNER that she wants. And if she doesn't already have a new boyfriend, she's going to get one soon. She's putting her romantic happiness above the well-being of your children. That's what ILYBIMINWY speech REALLY means.

3. DO NOT MOVE OUT YOUR HOUSE. Why should you move if SHE's the one who wants to end the marriage? This also will work against you in custody hearings if you get a divorce. Let her get her own flat. She needs to feel consequences for her actions. Why are YOU paying the consequences for her decision to leave you. If she's leaving you, she needs to be doing the leaving. Let HER leave. Why should you leave?

4. Go see a divorce lawyer immediately. This doesn't mean you are going to file. It's to know your rights, and also to get advice on what not to do (like move out of your own home).

5. Give her space, work on yourself. Get some exercise and some hobbies. She needs to know that you are ready to move on IF SHE LEAVES.

--Theoden



Best post ever, especially #2.

Follow the 37 rules, work on yourself, and GAL. That's all you can do my friend. Stay strong and be positive.


Me:39 Her:35
Daughter: 6
Married: 11
Together: 13
D-day: 5.7.14
She left: 1.26.14
Status: Separated
Re: This can't be the end! [Re: Vince H] #2528289
01/17/15 06:29 PM
01/17/15 06:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
UK
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Barry Offline OP
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Barry  Offline OP
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Ok, so I've decided not to think about there being an OM. It serves no purpose but to make me feel like crap and I can't focus on myself if that's the case.
If it ever turns out there is one, I'll deal with that then, but not when he's only a fictitious character in my head. I still don't believe there actually is one anyway, I just think the W has got to a point in here life where she isn't sure if she wants to be in ANY R, and feels like she's lost her identity as a person rather than as a wife and mother. Only she can figure out what she wants.

I still believe I've done, and am doing the right thing in me moving out whilst we are S and need to use the gift of time wisely to sort myself out, for me and my kids.
If in doing that, my W sees the man she's loved for many years returning and wants to give in a shot (or more of a fresh start), then great, I'll embrace that and see where it leads. If she doesn't, I can't control that and although it's not what I want, I'll more than likely be in a better place to deal with it.
I'm sure the pain will still be intense, it wouldn't be worth trying at all if I didn't love her so much.

I saw an old friend last night, who has also had a tough time during his life with relationships although the circumstances are very different to mine. He got me to lay it all bare to him, right from the start and asked all the right questions at the right times to really make me think about things more clearly. He's missed his calling in life, he should be a councillor!! He is also looking to GAL a bit more too so we've arranged a few things which is really going to help me.

I woke this morning for the first time since BD feeling a lot more confident about how this is all going to pan out, but also in a moment of clarity, realised that I'm actually going to be ok no matter which way it goes.

I'm sure I'm on a long and rocky road, but long may this feeling continue.


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
Re: This can't be the end! [Re: Barry] #2528303
01/17/15 08:14 PM
01/17/15 08:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
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Sotto Offline
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Barry, just wanted to say Hi (as a fellow Brit) and welcome to the board. Good to read your last post - you're sounding more positive. Nice to have a friend to GAL with, and I'm sure that will help.

The folks on this board are not where we would have chosen to be. But that's just the starting point, it's where we go from here that matters.

Good luck to you! Toots :-)


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Re: This can't be the end! [Re: Sotto] #2528323
01/17/15 09:44 PM
01/17/15 09:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
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Train Offline
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Hey, Barry!

I've debated, after reading through your thread, if I wanted to pitch in. But I'm going to go ahead ...

If you could look through my posts from the first time I was here 9 years ago, you would have seen a vet named kml drop on my thread and be the first to say: "Your H is having an A." And you'd see my response was: "I guess that's always possible. But I am 99 percent sure he's not. That's just not the kind of person he is. He isn't a womanizer."

And I kept on about my DB efforts, gobbling-up ANY scraps my H would throw at me as I continued trying to be his warm, validating, supportive "friend."

Boy, did I feel stupid when I found out, just a couple months later, that H *was*, in fact, cheating.

I'm not telling you that your W is 100% having an A. I don't know, and you don't know. But you asked what clues you had given to make people think your W is cheating. And that's what I'm going to address here:

Actually, Barry, the good news is: Your situation - as is usually the case here - sounds JUST LIKE everyone else's story. The bad news is: In probably 99% of those stories, an OW/OM is either known about or later discovered.

What we know through lots of our own experiences - and also through reading stories here for years - is that "ILYBINILWY," 9.5 times out of 10, actually means: "I'm cheating." We call that "script" because it is what they allllllll say when they're cheating and abandoning their Ms. Even through my own pain, I've always found it almost comical how they all say the very.same.things, even a country away. It's almost a science!

Why does it matter whether she's cheating? Because, well, it does. And, IMO, in pretty big ways if you want the best chances to save your M.

In DBing without an active A (with exception of the LRT), you are encouraged to become the kind of man your W likely feels she lost during your M: Attentive, validating, warm, loving and supportive. If your W is simply bored or angry or disconnected with you, then making those changes is likely, over time, to create a positive difference in your M, even if you're S.

The problem is: If you become that person while W is having an active A, my experience has been that it doesn't only NOT help your efforts to re-attract your W ... it actually pushes her even further away.

IF your W is in an A, then she's in what we call a "fog." She's not at all in love with you. In fact, you repulse her right now. Her brain is pumping out all kinds of chemicals that make her feel literally addicted to OM. He's like a drug. And if you're being all nice and sweet and warm and kind and validating, it's likely going to turn her off. Because in her mind, you look pathetic ... mainly because she's comparing you to someone else who is a lot more assured and confident.

In more detail: If she's in an A and you choose to "Plan A" her (if you try to be her friend ... if you take-to-heart her complaints about you and try to "fix" yourself only to show her you're changing ... if you placate her and act sweet as syrup around her to "show" her your new-found "changes"), she's GOING to be even more repulsed by you. Because she's looking at YOU, scurrying around to make changes FOR her and practically begging to be her "friend" - when you're actually her HUSBAND - and then, on the other hand, she's looking at a manly, attentive, confident man who showers her with affection and attention. And, what's more, she's "in love" with him.

Now, which of those two men sounds more attractive? (Surely I don't have to tell you.)

So the SHORT answer to why an A is relevant is: Because before you would be able to get to work on busting a D, you'd need to work on busting an A.

SOME of the work is the same. But, IMO, a lot of it isn't.

This is all from my own experience (which includes busting two As, 8 years apart, and now piecing with my H):

Fighting against an A takes A LOT of backbone, willpower and determination. And NO FEAR. It takes you digging deep to find your (ahem) testicles and your strength. It takes you being willing to firmly tell your W that you will NOT live in an open M (if, in fact, you're not willing to) and then being willing to back that up with actions. (And it.is.not.easy.)

Simultaneously, you have to incorporate all those "normal" DB principles: be confident and upbeat and, yes, even neighborly, and put forward the BEST Barry you can be. You DO need to listen to W's marital complaints about you if she offers them. And you need to work hard on fixing those things in yourself and *for* yourself because you want to be the best man you can be for - God willing - your W when she comes around. Or for the next woman you meet.

And, no matter what - affair, or no - you have to be willing to let your W go and start facing a possible future without her, as bad as that hurts and as impossible as it feels right now. GAL will help you A LOT with that ... and with detaching from W's words and actions while she's wayward.

Your goals: GAL and detachment. Those are life-savers right now.

And please listen to theoden and sandi. I've read their posts for a long time, and they know what they're talking about. sandi is as sharp as they come. And theoden's tough stance may come off as a little too edgy and harsh. But that's because he's been here a long time and has a lot of experience and knowledge about what works and what doesn't. (I remember when I came here in 2005/06 and vets were telling me to be tough. I was like: Y'all are asking me to do WHAT?!? ALREADY?!? I don't have the strength to do that! But I, like many others, wish I would have listened sooner. When I came back last year after ANOTHER A - because H and I didn't do "piecing" the correct way after the first one - I followed the advice of my friend Starsky, another tough-guy around here, almost to the letter. And my H's A was busted in less than two months.)

You've come to the right place, Barry. Sending you my best wishes ...

(Sorry for the novella. I'm long-winded.) smile


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Re: This can't be the end! [Re: Train] #2528360
01/18/15 12:15 AM
01/18/15 12:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 12,984
NY
Cadet Offline

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Cadet  Offline

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Posts: 12,984
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I'm not sure if you said that you're moving out of the house do not do that. It is the single biggest mistake you can make


Me-65, D32,S31
Re: This can't be the end! [Re: Train] #2528362
01/18/15 12:21 AM
01/18/15 12:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
UK
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Barry Offline OP
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Barry  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
UK
Hi Toots, thanks for reading and the welcome.

I do feel strangely more positive today? It's taken me by surprise a little?!

Nothing has changed between W and I, I think it's just that it dawned on me that over the last week, I've actually been doing what I should have been doing all along...GAL!!
Don't get me wrong, I wish none of this was happening, I love my W dearly and I hope we do survive this but if I just try to put that to one side for a moment though, and think about myself, it's true that I'm not the person I once was...confident, funny, popular......happy?

That's not all down to my marriage or my wife of course, there's lots of factors. Ultimately though, it's all just got to the point where I've turned myself into someone I'm not.
I've realised that if I want to be the very best person I can be, for me..for my kids..and yes hopefully for my W and M, I need to get my old self back.

This sounds all very Zen when I say it out loud, but it's sort of...only when I can love my true self, will anyone else be able to love the real me.

I sound like the bloody Dalai Lama lol!!

I'm sure to be a regular here for a while, as I said....long road!
I'll take a look at your thread as well Toots.
It does really help to know that I'm not alone in this.

Although I'm not happy to be in the situation, I'm glad I found my way here.

Barry


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
Re: This can't be the end! [Re: Train] #2528371
01/18/15 01:21 AM
01/18/15 01:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
UK
B
Barry Offline OP
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Barry  Offline OP
Member
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
UK
Hi Train,

Thanks for your input.
Don't worry about being long winded...I can be too lol.

I do understand that as much as I think/hope I know my W after all these years, it's a possibility that I don't and there's an OM. I get that.

All I'm really saying is that as it stands, I believe her.

I may be back writing on here one day that I got it wrong and she was cheating at the time or that there's an OM on the scene now, but as it stands, I believe her.

She's my wife, I love her, and there's no evidence of it that I know of (and trust me, I've looked for any).
If I let my mind convince me there is someone else and there actually isn't, all I'm doing is making myself illl for no reason. The stats may well be against me, but for the time being, I'll remain positive.
What'll happen if it ever does turn out there's someone, I don't know.

There's lots of good advice in your post and insight into what to expect if OM appears or comes to light so I thank you for that.

I'm going to really work on the detachment and GAL and see where that takes me, it's really all I have and it has been helping if not my M as yet, my own sanity!

I definitely think I'm in the right place. smile

Barry


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
Re: This can't be the end! [Re: Barry] #2528374
01/18/15 01:25 AM
01/18/15 01:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
UK
B
Barry Offline OP
Member
Barry  Offline OP
Member
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 194
UK
Hi Cadet.

Yes, I did move out already. I have heard a few people say that it was a bad idea but I'm going with my gut here and believe it's the right thing to do at the moment.

I hope I don't live to regret it. I'll let you all know!!

Barry


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
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