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A Message from Michele
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Re: I thought everything was okay.....(Part 3) [Re: MCS] #2526795
01/14/15 05:16 AM
01/14/15 05:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 545
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MCS Offline OP
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Here's the email..

_______

Thank you, W. I brought up stuff today that still really is causing me pain, as you could see. I've never had a chance to discuss that stuff with you, but have been holding it in since all this happened.

I meant what I said today that I will support you in whatever you would like to do in this. I'm not sure what would give me closure. I've accepted where we are as a couple. I'll tell you, I'm still not even close to acceptance with what this means with respect to only being with our kids fifty percent of the time.

I'm trying to be better and I've tried to work on keeping things separate between us as a couple and us as co-parents, but I backslide as I get upset about the kids and then I bring our relationship into it.

That brings me to what I tried to make the main point today, but failed. Our interactions with the kids. It is so important to me that we develop that. I feel we both need to be patient with each other.

I find it perfectly acceptable for you to leave if you are uncomfortable if I take our discussions off topic.

What triggers it for me is when we are talking about the kids or the logistics of our Separation and I feel that there is avoidance working through a topic because it's difficult emotionally. You've accommodated me on some of these areas, so I appreciate that. But there's things we need to discuss in our separation and about our kids that are going to be really tough on both of us.

Today was the picture [S5 made a picture of us together as a family], it wasn't fair to you for me to bring that into the conversation, but the topic I was trying to address was how we are going to support our kids emotionally. It's a huge concern of mine.

Last edited by MCS; 01/14/15 05:17 AM.

M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Re: I thought everything was okay.....(Part 3) [Re: MCS] #2526796
01/14/15 05:29 AM
01/14/15 05:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 288
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JCred Offline
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Quote:
Drop the rope


I think the answer is....

Stop the pressure.. If she is feeling pressure and we know pressure doesn't work... then take off the pressure...

don't make this more complicated than it is... first take off the pressure..

The key here is how do you do that? Give me some ideas on how you think you can take off the pressure she is feeing from you?


Justin Credible
Re: I thought everything was okay.....(Part 3) [Re: MCS] #2526802
01/14/15 05:46 AM
01/14/15 05:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 288
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JCred Offline
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MCS..

Here is my take....

I believe women are attracted to emotionally strong men..
Men who show "I can handle it for us honey.. don't worry, I'll take care of it"...

Emotional strength in times of stress. When a woman is in times of stress..(and you better get used to that happening often when with a woman because most women are emotional beings) she needs her man to be a rock of strength to lead her through the issue...

When he is emotionally weak (shown by your walking out today which could easily be viewed as a tantrum.) then she loses her attraction..

So, you can't attract her back when you are demonstrating emotional weakness.. By you telling her that you "are worried about the kids this and the kids that" she FEELS it as your emotional weakness in times of stress.....

Emotional strength would be telling and showing her things like..... "Tell me what your ideas are to make this work for OUR kids honey"

Then shut up and LISTEN.. really listen...

It's coming across almost in my view as role reversal here..
She is trying to reassure you that "things will be all right honey"......

You are now in the more feminine position because I hear you saying things the woman normally says... like.. "yea but I'm worried about this and worried about that, and you won't talk to me and I am hurting, and I need closure"

those are normally female type emotions..women aren't attracted to men who demonstrate those qualities.. Haven't you observed that in your life? Women LOVE emotionally strong men in times of trouble...

Last edited by JCred; 01/14/15 05:48 AM.

Justin Credible
Re: I thought everything was okay.....(Part 3) [Re: JCred] #2526803
01/14/15 05:51 AM
01/14/15 05:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 545
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MCS Offline OP
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JCred,

So not sure if you read through my whole sitch. I'll summarize what happened and the phases of contact (outside of counseling when applicable) to put it in perspective

1) BD ~3 days (beg, plead)
2) W leaves ~3 days (text messages out to wazzoo)
3) MCS 'drops' rope ~2months (NC)
4) MCS sends stuff about kids school, no replies
5) W informs she bought house/wants D ~1 hour (single phone call)
6) MCS confronts about OM ~2 days (lots of calls as story unfolds)
7) R talk by W and MCS ~3 days (W 'hangs' out with Family for weekend)
8) W says schedule MC for Reconciliation ~1 week (NC)
9) W says @ 1st session, not interested in Reconciliation (NC)
10) MC (mediation) once a week for 30 minutes ~2 months (NC)
11) W says MCS witholding info about kids (Kids text messages)
12) MCS drafts 'temp' ground rules to S ~1 month (NC)
13) W moves into house ~2 weeks (NC)

So here's the stuff that I intentionally did not pressure her on:
So, no separation agreement, she bought a house, it took her from Oct to Dec for her to get her stuff out of house, take kids every weekend, she just separated out expenses and pull money out of our accounts w/o discussing at all.

So that's where we are. I don't see much pressure, its all been on her terms. The first piece of pressure is the kids schedule and maybe that's it, she's been used to none and then I dig me feet in about the first issue that she needs to interact with me on. But its about perception, I get it.

So, no pressure.........

Ummm, yeah. I'm literally blank w/o sacrificing things that I feel are best for kids. (like just telling her to do whatever she wants and make her own schedule)


M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Re: I thought everything was okay.....(Part 3) [Re: JCred] #2526807
01/14/15 06:15 AM
01/14/15 06:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 545
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MCS Offline OP
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MCS  Offline OP
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Posts: 545
Originally Posted By: JCred
MCS..

It's coming across almost in my view as role reversal here..
She is trying to reassure you that "things will be all right honey"......



Holy Hanna.....THAT'S IT. Although, I think opposite of what you say. Knowing W, we are both really driven, independent people before our M. Once we got M, I could see us falling into slightly different roles, even though I always felt we were equals, she has said she didn't.

I've always been the emotional rock in the M. Other than now, I hardly ever get rattled, never lose control, difficult emotional sitch? MCS would handle. W would not go to funerals, because she said she didn't like the feeling of being there...I digress.

This has been confirmed by a few close friends to both of us on things they saw in our M.

Bold statements, I know....but its what she said at BD that I see is what the key is....

"MCS, I feel like I've always lived under your shadow"
"MCS, I feel like you're the boss and I'm the employee"

Even a friend said to me "MCS, W put you on a pedestal in everything you did"

Well, post BD, wallowing MCS thought about these and never figure out what she really meant.

Well, I can see in our M, I did have that role; W even admitted it to me when we were working the 'reconcile' weekend. This was the time she said she got 'caught' with internet chat stuff (about 14 months ago.) "MCS, when S5 had problems at daycare, I had to send you, because I couldn't handle it. Everything was collapsing around me I realized that I wasn't focused in the right area, the kids." (well that led into the affair, so I don't get the second part of that statement) (but looking back this was the one time she told me she was unhappy an unknown to me were all of these things that I had no clue about)

Well, now she has taken her stand on it and left the M. She wanted to 'free' herself from MCS.

THEN.....
I look at 'how' she's doing things and feel she's making emotionally unstable decisions and not thinking things through (WAW, 1 BR appt, House, etc.) ......which when I comment makes her feel that I'm trying to re-establish my former role, pushing her away. or just not dealing with things that are emotionally difficult at all (going through house, discussing kids, not seeing MCS at all)

THEN.....
I use the guise of the kids emotions as a scapegoat for my own emotional stability (not fully, but sure lets go with it) W sees this and is still comparing herself to MCS and now she's the emotionally stable one. Its what she wanted all along.


So, maybe that's what happened tonight. She got the opportunity to get control of the whole situation because of me freaking out. That's making her feel good about herself (and that's really what I want for her.) I know in order for her to be happy (in our M or not) she needs to grow and this is the first step.

I hate to say it, but the blow-up was a little premeditated on my part. Once I got into it, I couldn't stop it; but I made a stand that I was no longer going to just try to accommodate her every move.


Last edited by MCS; 01/14/15 06:22 AM.

M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Re: I thought everything was okay.....(Part 3) [Re: MCS] #2526843
01/14/15 12:56 PM
01/14/15 12:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 545
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Posts: 545
So, it may look like I'm all over the place with this. But for the first time that I have seen, something changed the way she was approaching this whole situation. It's always been passiveness and avoidance about really anything that had to do with me, but yesterday she reached out and tried to resolve something that she saw was wrong. I'm not sure how this affects any DB prospects, but it accomplished what I was looking for. Some way to begin to establish some relationship with W as co-parents.

I realized in her message to me, it was the first time that she took accountability for what she did to me and was seeking what I needed to move on. Bad DB on my part, but it's one of the first times I've seen an action that wasn't selfish on her part.

Again, I needed to do something. Our relationship (even as parents) was getting farther apart as time went on and this seems to show me that she's realized that we can't be that way forever.

Thoughts? 2x4's?

Last edited by MCS; 01/14/15 01:00 PM.

M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Re: I thought everything was okay.....(Part 3) [Re: MCS] #2526853
01/14/15 01:26 PM
01/14/15 01:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 288
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JCred Offline
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JCred  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 288
I will get back to you.
I have some things going on.


We will help with a plan to get you back in track. I started a man cave thread. I want to invite you to stop over.


Justin Credible
Re: I thought everything was okay.....(Part 3) [Re: JCred] #2527016
01/14/15 08:52 PM
01/14/15 08:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 545
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MCS Offline OP
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Posts: 545
So, went to IC and also talked a little with MC today.

Both didn't think the letter captured how I felt. My IC said to me, why are you still trying to take a tact of her not harming you in this? Tell her what you need. I'm not sure what that is. A part of me wants her to say "MCS, I am responsible for this, I have been living this life for over a year and intentionally pulled the wool over your eyes. It was my decision to leave and my decision to split up the family" but that's just my emotions speaking right now


Interestingly, the MC told me W called and was actually telling him she wasn't going to go to counselling (mediation) anymore, so my assessment of last night was incorrect. He said he had to convince her that we need to be able to talk about the kids.

Ugh, I don't know...feeling pretty hopeless about our M right now. I know I'll be okay through all of this, I think it may be me being forced to detach more.


M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Re: I thought everything was okay.....(Part 3) [Re: MCS] #2527140
01/15/15 12:47 AM
01/15/15 12:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 288
J
JCred Offline
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 288
Quote:
My IC said to me, why are you still trying to take a tact of her not harming you in this? Tell her what you need. I'm not sure what that is


That may be a place to start.

Throw some thing out there. What are some of things you think you need right off the top of your head?


Justin Credible
Re: I thought everything was okay.....(Part 3) [Re: JCred] #2527170
01/15/15 02:11 AM
01/15/15 02:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 545
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MCS Offline OP
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MCS  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 545
So, have some more time to post now. A couple things that I learned today, probably one of my best counseling sessions

1) As you guys said here, IC put it in a different light, however they are both the same thing I'm struggling with. MCS is having trouble separating out our R and our roles as Parents. It's true.

2) happy with MCS that he is starting to express anger and also realizing that MCS had very little to do with the sitch and how it transpired.

3) That MCS catering to her emotionally is getting MCS nowhere (from a parenting perspective) and MCS has been doing that to try and hold onto our R

4) W feels M is over, but MCS doesn't

5) W is not acting mature about her decisions, but MCS can't force her to act that way with trying to apply logic and common sense

6) MCS is still trying to trivialize or explain away W's actions in order to protect himself that M is over right now

7) MCS is trying to grip at straws that W is uncomfortable with her decision to leave the marriage

Last edited by MCS; 01/15/15 02:13 AM.

M:36 W:37
T: 15 M:11
S6 D5
BD: 8/10/14
IDLY: 8/12/14
S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids)
D Mentioned: 10/15/14
Confronted about OM: 10/15/14
EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13
She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Page 5 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11

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