train, 25yrs, others who kept up on my sitch

[Jefe]

"The money issue has always been hard for us. We are both very independent and it's SUPER hard for me to not contribute equally."
^^^And? Let it go. Is this kind of pettiness worth damaging your marriage over, or any other relationship in your life for that matter? Whether you want to save your marriage or not is not the issue here. It was a cup of coffee and a tank of gas. Let people do things for you, even if your angry at them. It may not even begin to come close to repairing the damage he caused but it certainly isn't causing more.

"It's easier for me to get angry about something like this than to tell him "I'm angry AGAIN that you did those horrible things to me"" But thats the truth, and your complaing about his lack of honesty down to how a cup of coffee meant for you was purchased yet you refuse to be completely honest about your feelings. You're not playing fair. He deserves as mush honesty from you as you expect from him.

"Jefe, I am totally stand offish to him about it. I will snap that I don't know why he has to be a LIAR and I always find out so why lie?" But you're angry about PAST lies. We've already established that the 2 incidences you brought up were not in fact LIES. Acting gracious towards him is just as much about healing you as anything else. If you WANT to start moving forward with your anger I would apologize for the coldness about this issue, and this issue only, and thank him for the gas and coffee. YOU will feel better, I promise.

"I guess (right or wrong) I felt like I was at a place where I was no longer in full DB'ing mode where I needed to STFU and not let my emotions show. For me that can't be maintained this long. I give credit to those that can do it. " Here's the thing that drives me crazy about this place sometimes. DBing this, DBing that... If you want to REALLY lose weight or become healthier you make lifestyle changes, permanent ones. If you just go "on a diet" as soon as you stop, your life and body will go right back to where it was. "DBing" (ugh I can't believe I even typed that) is no different. We can't do it for just a season, we have to make lifestyle changes, permanent ones. Sure there are some specific techniques we use in the early stages to rapidly loose some weight or get a spouses attention that we wont continue, but as a whole we don't have the luxury of going back to our "old" selves.

I am by no means telling you that you shouldn't hurt or don't have a right to be angry, you do and you should be. Twin, you helped me through a really dark period not but a few weeks ago. Mirror some of that same advice you gave me back into your own situation.

Take a look at the advice that Hope414 gave me a few days ago on this very subject. It's very wise. The "Vision Chart" she recommended has been helpful for me.

[twinmom]

Oh, yeah, twinmom. Let's not be out looking for things to be upset about. You have plenty of real things to be upset about. But H buying you coffee and paying for your gas? Um, hellerrr? Acts of service. Take it with a smile. (As long as he isn't neglecting his share of the household bills to spend frivolously. And he IS paying household bills, right?)

You asked some questions about what you should do now that H says he doesn't want a D but admits he isn't "in love" with you. twin, you're a smart cookie. How does what H said make YOU feel? What do YOU think you should do? What are your goals? What do you want, sweetie? Spell that out for us.

And tell me: Are you comfortable being alone? Do you feel confident when you picture yourself being a single mom with limited help, and limited financial support, from your H?

Also, have you read 5LL? Have you and H ever taken the quiz to find out what your LL is?

Ok I have thought about this a lot. Could I be alone? Yes, if I had to I could make it work. Do I enjoy being alone? Nope, not at all. I have thought about this a lot. It's not the "in a relationship" or "not in a relationship" alone I don't like it's the companionship. I think I would be happy if I had a roommate (could be female or male) as I truly just enjoy having someone other than the kids to talk to/chill with.
What do I want from H??? This is going to sound HORRIBLE but I want him to hit rock bottom. I want him to own his mistakes and I want him to admit he has an addiction. I want him to think fu#!I really messed that sh!# up and be absolutely disgusted with his own actions. So yea forgiveness is something I haven't quite mastered yet........ (or even come close to)

I admit one of my faults is not being able to let go of past wrongs especially if a sincere apology/making amends hadn't occurred.

I should probably put a LOT of effort into that.

[twinmom]

Jefe, I get what you are saying about the lies but honesty isn't something my H is proficient at. As 25years once told me "I'd you had endless energy search for the one or two women on earth your H hasn't lied to"

I do owe him honesty for the simple fact that I believe being honest is the right thing to do. BUT with that said when I am honest and have told him something sparked a memory and I am having a bad day he just pulls away from me and it's so cold it's like he is angry with me. I have told him I need comfort in the form of physical touch when I am upset but anything other than a smile = cold/distant H

[Jefe]

"Jefe, I get what you are saying about the lies but honesty isn't something my H is proficient at. As 25years once told me "I'd you had endless energy search for the one or two women on earth your H hasn't lied to""

I'm going to keep circling back to you on this. Whether or not your husband is proficient in honesty has ZERO bearing on this discussion. He bought you a cup of coffee.

You, and rightfully so, jumped on my butt about wanting to "punish" my wife. Isn't this kinda the same thing?

Sweetheart, fight the battles that need fighting, don't create new ones.

[twinmom]

Oh I agree Jefe, I do feel a sense of wanting to punish.

I don't know how to move past that feeling. It feels as though he has had no consequences for his actions and I am the one who gets screwed for his actions. I guess (and maybe this makes me a bad person and I need to change this about myself) but I want him to have consequences for his choices.

[unbidden]

"Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself" by MWD.

I found this article to be incredibly helpful with the kind of feelings you've been expressing --

By Michele Weiner-Davis

Are you someone who walks around feeling angry with your spouse or loved one much of the time? Do you have a little inner voice that constantly reminds you of all of his or her wrongdoings? Have you become expert at remembering all the minute details of past injustices just so that you can keep score? If this describes you at all, you better read what I'm about to say and take it to heart.

Lack of forgiveness imprisons you. It takes its toll on your physical and emotional health. It keeps you stuck in the deepest of relationship ruts. No matter how justified you feel about your point of view regarding your partner's insensitive behavior, you still are miserable. When you wake up each morning, a gray tint shadows your life. You walk around with a low-grade depression. You can't feel joy because you're too busy being angry or feeling disappointed.

In the face of these fairly obvious disadvantages, you hang on to your belief that, since you feel let down, you must not "give in." To you, giving in means forgiving, letting go, making peace. To do so, would be tantamount to giving up your soul. So, you keep your distance. You interact in perfunctory ways, never allowing your partner to step over the emotional line you've drawn. And though the distance often feels intolerable, forgiveness is not on your short list of solutions to your dilemma.

I have worked with so many couples who say they want to heal their relationships. And yet, when they're offered the tools, they can't seem to move forward. These are the couples who, instead of finding effective ways to get beyond blame, continue to repeat their mantra, "Our problems are your fault and you must pay." As long as they maintain this mindset, they are doomed to failure. How very sad. Even sadder are their children who, on a day-by-day basis observe their parents being "right" but "miserable." What lessons are they learning about love?

If any of this strikes a chord with you (and you wouldn't be reading this if it didn't), you need to internalize that forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. Letting go of resentment can set you free. It can bring more love and happiness into your life. It opens the door to intimacy and connection. It makes you feel whole. Forgiving others takes strength, particularly when you feel wronged, but the fortitude required to forgive pales in comparison to the energy necessary to maintain a sizable grudge. The person most hurt by holding out or blaming is YOU, no matter what the circumstances.

"All this sounds good," you tell yourself, "but how can I ever forget what my partner did to me?" Good question. You don't! Forgiveness is not the same as forgetting. You will probably always remember the particular injustice(s) that drove you into your corner. But what will happen is that when you forgive, the intense emotions associated with the event(s) begin to fade. You will feel happier, lighter, more loving. And these renewed positive feelings won't go unnoticed. Others will be drawn to you.

Just keep in mind that forgiveness isn't a feeling. It is a decision. You decide that you are going to start tomorrow with a clean slate. Even if it isn't easy, you make the determination that the alternative is even harder, and that you are going to do what you must to begin creating a more positive future.

So promise yourself, that no matter what the reason, you will not go another day blaming your partner and feeling lonely. Make peace. Make up. Make love. I promise you that the benefits of deciding to forgive go far beyond anything you can picture in your mind's eye at the moment. Your decision to forgive will create a ripple effect of exponential changes in your life.

[Train]

I want him to have consequences for his choices

There's somebody around here - it might be 25 - who often says something like: You can't teach your H lessons. Life will teach the lessons.

[Sotto]

Unbidden beat me to it, but when I read your recent threads, I wondered whether you have done much reading/thinking about the area of forgiveness? There's a real sense of you feeling your H doesn't 'deserve' that - but of course it isn't for him, it's for you..x

[twinmom]

Unbidden beat me to it, but when I read your recent threads, I wondered whether you have done much reading/thinking about the area of forgiveness? There's a real sense of you feeling your H doesn't 'deserve' that - but of course it isn't for him, it's for you..x

You're so right. I need to totally back off and work on my idea of forgiveness without any strings attached.
I am not (yet) am awesome person who can forgive without feeling like they earned it.

This is what I needed....... The outside choices pushing me to think in different ways and analyze my own thoughts.

[Ggrass]

I think some of us and our partners get caught up in thinking forgiveness is saying

Your forgiven, and it's forgotten. My h did, he thought you say done and it was not that it is a process. That can take time, more time with repeated large indiscretions on their part.

So repeated cheating is huge. They say it can take 6 months, to forgive. Let alone if the person who wronged you has no desire to change. I get the picking at a scab thing you do your self, but in my h case he kept picking that wound open on my. Behalf.

He made mistakes forgiveness was maditory
Gg made deal breakers and no forgiveness reall came forth.