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Old thread about to lock: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2522449&#Post2522449

Yesterday she revealed a 7 month affair to me. Says OM ended it 2 weeks ago. She has apologized, is mum on our M. The wound is still fresh to me, and I know I need time, but right now I don't know if I could ever lay down next to her again.

She is swearing up and down now that it didn't get physical with OM until after the last time we were intimate. This is contrary to what she told me last night (that they had sex in Paris on their international seminar...we were intimate a couple of days after she returned). Maybe I misheard her or she misheard me last night. But I don't believe her. I mean, they were in Paris together, at the beginning of their A. They probably hooked up every night.

I was snowboarding today, my mom was watching D2. WAW was supposed to pick her up this morning. She didn't wake up until almost noon, after I left for snowboarding. Probably took some meds last night with wine or something. Mom said she was really upset when she showed up. The only person I've told and plan on telling about this is my sister on the other side of the country. I love my mom but telling it to be is almost like posting it on FB. She can't help but call a couple of her sisters, they tell a couple of my cousins, and it's out there. They all thought she was cheating all along, anyway.

Anyway, I had some rough moments today but snowboarding was a great GAL activity today. Plenty of danger and pain to distract me!


Me 38, WAW 30
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Card29 Offline OP
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The main reason I don't think I could stay married to her is that she is so so broken. She has SO much work to do on herself before she is ready to build a stable M. She didn't seem willing or capable to do that, and hasn't in a long time. I do love her and want her to be happy, but she has cheated on me, I no longer feel obligated to stand by her, and I don't know if I want to risk the next decade of my life waiting on her to get herself together. I cant fix her.

Just go watch Brene Brown's Power of Vulnerability. WAW is the epitome of the non-whole-hearted person Brene describes. Self loathing, medicated, numb, full of shame (and that was before the affair). She's been like that for years, before I ever met her. I feel like choosing to stand beside her would be a codependent decision. I also know it hasn't even been 24 hrs since she broke the news to me


Me 38, WAW 30
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Card,

I am sorry about the latest revelation from your W. It will take some time to process this information.

Originally Posted By: Card29
The main reason I don't think I could stay married to her is that she is so so broken. She has SO much work to do on herself before she is ready to build a stable M. She didn't seem willing or capable to do that, and hasn't in a long time. I do love her and want her to be happy, but she has cheated on me, I no longer feel obligated to stand by her, and I don't know if I want to risk the next decade of my life waiting on her to get herself together. I cant fix her.


^^^^ I have a puzzled look on my face. Who made you The Lord High Executioner??

Have you discounted the huge role your porn played in the disconnect your own M?

Have you completely disregarded GoatGal's eloquent explanation as the wife in a porn-filled M and its effects on her?

If I am reading you right, you're so willing to discard W in less than 24-hours of the A discovery, BUT expect your W to stay in a marriage with you where she feels "used" and devalued as a person by you?

I don't understand your thinking at all.

You have some serious perspective adjustment to do here, Card.

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Card, I'm sorry to hear about the WAW's affair. I get it, I've been there, still am.

GAL and keep snowboarding until you can figure out what you can do. Vent to the board if you have to.

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Originally Posted By: Wonka


Originally Posted By: Card29
The main reason I don't think I could stay married to her is that she is so so broken. She has SO much work to do on herself before she is ready to build a stable M. She didn't seem willing or capable to do that, and hasn't in a long time. I do love her and want her to be happy, but she has cheated on me, I no longer feel obligated to stand by her, and I don't know if I want to risk the next decade of my life waiting on her to get herself together. I cant fix her.


^^^^ I have a puzzled look on my face. Who made you The Lord High Executioner??

Have you discounted the huge role your porn played in the disconnect your own M?

Have you completely disregarded GoatGal's eloquent explanation as the wife in a porn-filled M and its effects on her?

If I am reading you right, you're so willing to discard W in less than 24-hours of the A discovery, BUT expect your W to stay in a marriage with you where she feels "used" and devalued as a person by you?

I don't understand your thinking at all.

You have some serious perspective adjustment to do here, Card.


I'm sorry, but what? Have to agree with Wonka here. Now that the tables are turned, how indeed are you the high executioner?

If having a PA is your line in the sand (it is for me in my relationship), then I can understand. But this whole "she's broken, she cheated on me, I no longer feel OBLIGATED to stand beside her!?!?" And then you go on to point out the self loathing, shame, and medication.

Wow, it seems like you've hoisted yourself up onto a pretty high pillar there. How's the view looking down on her?

She stood beside you in a M with porn, despite feeling devalued and used. She had an affair, and now that the shoe is on the other foot, you could never lay with her again?

I don't get it, I really don't. I understand it's not a tit for tat situation. But I would urge you to yes, get screened for STD's but to really take a look at the whole picture and how you both contributed to the situation your M is in, not just from the perspective gained in the last 24 hours.


I am truly sorry to hear this revelation. I know it has to be hard. But take a step back man.


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Card29 Offline OP
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I have owned and owned and owned my porn problem as well as the damage it did to our M. I have continued to own it in the last 24 hours. And of course I would not expect her to stay in an M where she felt used and violated. It makes me sick to think I made her feel like that. But a lot of that comes from within her. She pressured ME into sex when we were dating. I wanted to wait for marriage (she'd already been with multiple partners, including one in her dorm bed about an hour before we made out in the same bed, just before we were official dating). She seduced me for weeks before I gave in. It was not sweet, affectionate seduction. It was dirty talk, telling me all of the things she wanted me to do to her. Then she had me go buy a sexual positions book so we could do different things. But it's all my fault that our sex didn't have intimacy? I wasn't ready and knew it, but eventually I agreed. And I didn't even know books like that existed, yet suddenly I'm studying advanced rear entry positions with her, per her wish. Now I have a new porn fetish to look up...exotic positions! But of course it's all my fault that our sex life lacked intimacy.

But what I would expect is her to TELL me she felt violated. I had no idea. Yes, I was naive. I was ignorant. I was unskilled. I meant the best for my W. I always wanted her to be happy but I didn't know how to help her there, nor how to see just how desperate she was. But if she had just told me, "I feel violated when we have sex", that would have shook me to my core, and maybe I would have learned years ago what I've learned since BD. I am not a sexually demanding H. I did not pressure her into sex any more than the obligation she felt as a W pressured her. I just thought she didn't like sex (all of that crazy sex talk ended like 6 months after we started having sex), so I thought I was a good H for her since I was happy with her even though we'd go weeks without sex. Oh, and for the last several years, I was the one who tried to kiss her during sex, but she just wanted me to "get it over with". I was too ignorant to see the gravity of her words.

Yes, I know what role porn played in our M. I know she didn't just up and decide to cheat on me. And I have done EVERYTHING I can to eliminate porn from my life once and for all. So far it has been successful (August 2014). I feel sexually healthy for the first time in my life. But I don't know if I want to invest the next chapter of my life in her.

I'm not making any rash decisions. I am just spilling my heart. Swing 2x4's as you see fit, but also maybe give me a break. I just found out I was sharing my wife. This whole time I thought she was simply depressed, trying to find herself, out of hope for us. I did not believe she was in an affair. Everyone else saw it, but I didn't. Oh, and this isn't the first time she has cheated in an R. She had a whirlwind engagement when she was 18. She cheated on that guy 6 weeks in. And I mentioned her having sex with a guy in her bed when she was 19, knowing full well I was coming over later to make out. I would really feel like a fool if I wasted all of this suffering, discovery and work, not to mention the remainder of my child-making (?) years, only to be cheated on again in the future. Yes, I know so much more about how to "affair-proof" a M, but even IF she wanted to reconcile (to which she had given zero indication), she's not ready to do the work to get there.

I'm just being honest. This is where I stand TONIGHT.


Me 38, WAW 30
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Yep. This is the time to be upset and angry about new information.

The porn conversation has made rounds on a few different threads now, so hopefully we can remember that at this moment you are in a state of disturbance, not in a position of reasoned learning as in some of the other threads.

Process your anger.

Had you disclosed this stuff about your W and the early sexual experience before? Because that stuff is kind of disturbing to me. Personally.

Feel better, Card.


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Card29 Offline OP
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I really don't understand everyone throwing the porn stuff back in my face. I've owned it. I cannot have owned it any more than I have. I guess whenever I become the absolute perfect, flawless husband, that's when I will deserve to not have to share my wife?

This is not tit for tat. I would not be this upset had she admitted to masterbating to porn. I would not like that, but it's not the same thing. For arguments sake, let's say forget the sex she had with him. She wasn't a virgin when I met her, what's the difference? I got over that, I could get over this. She intended to replace me with HIM as the dad for half of D2's childhood. She introduced him to D2, and she told me that she intended it to be a lifelong R/M with him. Half of D2's childhood is GONE from my life. And to put into perspective how much that means to me, 3 years ago, when I was looking for a new job, I took a $25K paycut to work 15 less hours per week JUST so I could spend more time with my child who was 3 months away from being born.

I know I'm emotional right now. I need to wait until I'm calm and strong to make a decision. I just don't know if I could ever trust her again, and I don't believe she is capable of doing the work, even if she is willing. That is just how I feel tonight.


Me 38, WAW 30
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Backburner the porn conversation for tonight. As I say, it's a conversation that's been making the rounds and it's easy to lose track of a thread when elements show up in different places. Find it in you to detach from just that for the next day or so while you deal with the current body blow. Even awesome people like Wonka can occasionally miss the mark in timing.

I'm not going to address your other frustrations. You've been treated unfairly. Most of us have been. You're going to have to process that and as you know, the only way out is through.

Letting go of your W is where you have to be. At least for now. So work on doing that without apology.

Hugs to you, Card. It's no good. But growth and pain are hand in glove. You'll be good.


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As a LBS who's W cheated on him five years ago and is now sleeping with a colleague 10 years my junior, I'll side with Card29 at the moment. I've known of the current episode for over two months and it still wakes me up at night, giving me crying fits that I can't calm down without help.

Everyone is different, but we can't underestimate the impact of finding out your W slept with another man. Given that Card29 wanted to wait to be married, I'd expect him to see physical sex with someone else as special, as much as we discussed his "porn problem" here.

(Controversy alert) By the way, it is a problem in as much as his W decided it was -- there's nothing illegal about his behavior and there are people who are ok with their spouse leaving them alone and finding satisfaction elsewhere without touching or getting involved with other people. The problem is the misunderstanding between them, not that he was watching porn. So to me, this is not: "You were watching so much porn, you have to repent." It's: "You have failed your W sexually in very hurtful ways by not communicating with her." On that point, by the way, she seems to share part of the blame, not to mention that she dropped the big words (violated, cheating, etc.) AFTER BD and while she was being dumped by OM. It's still possible that she was inflating her reaction to prepare the stage for confessing her A. Card29 suggests as much when recounting how she reacted to porn years ago.

This is in the end a question of morals between two individuals. It is for Card29 and his W to deal with, without any external moral judgement as to how much what kind of porn is reasonable in a M. Our role is to help him find the contours of his W's morals and the impact of his behavior, but not to project our own limits or morals on them.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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