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A Message from Michele
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Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #3 #2521399
12/29/14 04:38 PM
12/29/14 04:38 PM
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HPoirot Offline OP
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HPoirot  Offline OP
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Day #15 in the condo.

My first day on antidepressants. I have never taken them before. I used to be of the mind that one should tough out sadness. Exercise, eat right, that type of thing instead of medication. Another thing I was wrong about. In my M I never went for help with my depression. My periods of depression now come up often when my W cries about our M problems. So I'm getting help... medication and therapy to grow my inner happiness and self-love. A big 180 for me.

Doctor has me on Lexapro. Said it could take a couple days to a few weeks to kick in. Or could be today. The drug is supposed to dial back my emotions... anger, sadness, even my sex drive. Which would be great. Feeling horny is especially painful for me.

My head definitely feels different physically right now. Something is definitely happening.

I was emotional and shaky this morning after W sent me text and VM asking to pick up S11 and lunch to take him to a doctor appointment. She said she'll have him back by dinner. She asked if I wanted to come along on to the appointment which I won't. I simply replied... "Hello W. That's fine. Also, please give me at least 2 days notice about things like this. Thank you." I think that response was OK. Acting like she's a co-worker. She then texted back saying "Thank you so much HP," and asking about paying tuition and the movers.

After that, and talking with my long time doctor about my sitch... He asked and I told him everything... I let myself get in the very bad shaky place again. I've since taken the A/D not expecting any change. Now my head feels different... maybe a numbing? The tension behind my eyes is almost gone as are my shakes. It's not a smooth comfortable feeling which would have been nice. More like the near absence of the painful uncontrolled stuff in my head that gets replaced with nothing. Like a "not all there" feeling.

If this is what it's going to be... I'll get used to it. But yes my emotions seem dialed back. I don't feel sharp... but I don't feel horrible. I feel like I could be even in conversation with W. Like I could think and act accordingly instead of simply reacting angrily. I would have to decide to look and act contented though. Not a magic pill.

So this will help. I'm thankful.

So I'll keep going on my 6 month plan. I still think of filing a fault D almost everyday. No matter how W sees my part in our M problems... I don't deserve what she's doing now and I am prepared to act accordingly. I also saw in other sitches how the filing was the hitting bottom needed to get the W talking and moving to R. Just want to make sure my waiting 6 months does not affect any fault benefits.

Also, my W is still has access to living comfortably in our old home and still driving the rental I helped pay for. After next week, when the home goes away, is when her real separation journey begins. She says she'll be staying at her aunts. She won't be able to keep S11 until she gets an apartment and her own car. I may also have to call her on any lies she tells. So I have to give more real life consequences time to happen.

At this point, though, and with help from this drug and therapy, I believe I can get back to the place where I see my W as sad, lost, hurt, and confused. And I'm just calmly being better me showing strong in her vicinity while still focused on my own thing and happiness.

Yes.. I took an action I never have before and now I'm in an OK place.

Just keep doing that.

Just keep going.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #3 [Re: HPoirot] #2521420
12/29/14 05:41 PM
12/29/14 05:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
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HPoirot Offline OP
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HPoirot  Offline OP
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Just a question... I've said before I've read sitches here where the LBS does spend time with the wayward WAS. Around kids mostly. Just a time to create a positive interaction. Painful to do... no expectations. Jan just did that successfully.

I have another opportunity to do this. W just came to pick up S11. I sent him down... did not see her.

She then texts... "Hey... any chance we can do lunch together for S11's birthday?"

So... my goal is to create a new, stronger more happier me while maybe creating a new M with my W. Each of us new better people in a new M as we did discuss in one of our R talks long ago.

Right now, I've gone pitch dark. Only responding to her S11 messages.

She has called me a mofo/avoider and I called her a F*cking B!tch as recently as a few days ago.

She would be happiest if I was just friendly nice guy/BFF accepting her A and her choices like good TV husbands do.

The easy answer, as I am pitch black dark, is to ignore this request. I can't be friends with her while she's behaving this way. I also let her feel the consequences of her actions.

But accepting her wishes and feelings is important too right? It seems not at this point. She knows exactly how I feel. She won't act like my W... she doesn't get me at all. We're not friends. She gave me his birthday and S11 knows that.

I get stuck here. After everything I've done... she keeps saying I'm not acting like and adult and I'm the avoider b/c I don't respond to her, don't see her, and don't accept her invitations to hang out together as a family. Though I know I'm doing what I'm supposed to do... that bothers me.

Hell.. why would she even ask this again? It is the same as before... for her guilt and so she can have happy family and her dreams. Making me the bad guy b/c I'm not tolerating her truth.

So I'll start answering these. I think Starsky has something better than "No thank you W."

Do I keep ignoring or denying these pokes from her, keep hitting her with truth darts, or do I just go and fake it. I want to stop pushing her away. I don't want to be at all like the hurt guy anymore.

I'm thinking... "No W... I already have plans for lunch with S11. Thanks." No truth dart. Just truth.

How's that?


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #3 [Re: HPoirot] #2521433
12/29/14 06:31 PM
12/29/14 06:31 PM
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Wonka Offline
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HP,

I've been MIA due to being waylaid with illness and didn't want to make any comments for they probably would have been wonky.

Alrighty. Listen up, HP. You must realize that DBing isn't one size fits all when one takes the context into consideration. Let's take your example along with Jan's. The first question to ask yourself is: what are the differences between your sitch and Jan's.

You are a male LBH whose wife is in an active affair with OM
Jan is a female LBS whose wife is in active affair with OW

You may ask: shouldn't we apply the same principles when DBing regardless of who the players are?

The answer is no. Please allow me to explain further.

When it comes to a WAW in an active affair with the OM, she loses all respect for LBH who goes all wet noodle on her out of fear that he will lose her. Well, he's already lost her with all wet noodle behaviors such as sleeping in the same bed, acting as a babysitter while she goes off with OM, kissing/being affectionate, using marital funds to finance her affair, etc.

In this case, it is critically important for the LBH to assert his leadership by establishing boundaries of no OM and not acting like a gay boyfriend to his WAW. Going dark and using LRT after all other measures have been exhausted is the way to assert his leadership in the M. For a straight woman, this shows her who the boss is and she will clearly see what life will look like without the financial security of her husband. Straight women are generally wired like that.

Contrast this with Jan's sitch. One would think that she should go hard-line on her wayward wife who has OW. Not the case. I encourage Jan to accept about half invitations from her W to interact with her and the kids. Why is that? Here's why I do for gay women with kids.

Gay women, generally speaking, come together based on deep/intense emotional connections. They are not as driven by financial security as straight women are because gay women have learned to be financially independent themselves. In Jan's case, it is critically important for her to interact with her WAW and their kids together because it touches deeply in a gay woman that draws out their feminine and mothering instincts out. For the most part, gay women relationships are fairly egalitarian in sharing finances, household chores, etc.

This is why the DBIng approach is different between your sitch and Jan's. The interplay between gay women marriages and straight marriages are a bit different. I wouldn't say vastly different because we all have the same dreams and aspirations.

Bottom line, in every sitch it is vitally important to be polite and respectful in our interactions with the WAS without being a jerk. It can be done.

Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #3 [Re: HPoirot] #2521435
12/29/14 06:40 PM
12/29/14 06:40 PM
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JCred Offline
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You will start to see some headway when you are a HAPPY, CONFIDENT, MATURE, EMOTIONALLY STABLE man..

I don't see any of those qualities in you at the moment.
I would bet your wife isn't seeing or feeling them either.


Those are the qualities that are attractive to women. This is what women tell us again and again and again.

I believe that your wife is seeing an unhappy, unconfident, immature, emotionally weak man...

If I am correct, then how can you expect her to be attracted back to you into a relationship?

She should be seeing that you seem happier without her, more confident than ever and an emotional rock that can handle anything life puts in front of him... "I can handle it.. Life is good."


Justin Credible
Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #3 [Re: Wonka] #2521438
12/29/14 06:44 PM
12/29/14 06:44 PM
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Wonka Offline
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HP,

I wanted to circle back and comment on some issues that have cropped up in your posts.

1) Your W is pushing your buttons with the avoider comments. Remember to stay calm and not be reactive. Just file away the info in your mind. I don't agree with all of your W's analysis. She's frustrated that she cannot reach you when you have s11. I think you did a good job with the reminder that you don't reach out when she has s11 and that you'd like for the same courtesy extended to you.

2) You CANNOT afford to ignore all of W's texts. Pick your battles wisely. If you would recall, W blows up when you don't respond at all with ugly spewing of swear words. You did an excellent job of not responding to them. She knows how badly she behaved. It is all on her. However, you can respond politely without being a jerk.

3) Regarding s11's refusal to respond to his mother's texts, it is important to stay out of their relationship. It is for him and W to figure out together. No kid wants to feel "forced" to communicate with a parent that essentially abandoned them. Hell, he has every perfect right to be angry at his Mom. Stay the hell out of their relationship. It is for your W to experience for herself the consequences of her choices....and this is one of them.

Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #3 [Re: Wonka] #2521443
12/29/14 06:59 PM
12/29/14 06:59 PM
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HPoirot Offline OP
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Thank you Wonka. I see what you are saying. Although I do want to have good interactions with W... how things are now is very different than how they were before when I wet noodled and didn't know better.

And thank you for explaining the difference between Jan's sitch and mine. I was so excited for her I wanted the same. I also saw, in Jan's case, her W told her some positive things like "I miss us." I like that and know I am far far from there.

Clearly, then, the polite and respectful thing to do is to continue to respond to her S11 texts and VM. Not immediately, but promptly. I ignore all other communications and invitations like this one. (But is ignoring any of her texts polite?) I stay my course to recover from her abuse, learn to be single and happy, and to get my mojo back.

One thing about our hand offs... I'm I doing right by not going to she her? She's right that in our M like many men I avoided and dismissed what I felt were her more difficult emotions. Even though she may have said this in anger to hurt and manipulate to get control, I'm sure she really feels that way. Isn't, then, LRT more of the same from me?

I know LRT is all there is to do and I have months of it to go. But I do see she is looking at my behavior. And S11 told her I went to the doctor today. I never made doctor appointments before and she will wonder why I went. So, while I'm still getting stronger, I just want to make sure I'm not making anything worse in our few interactions.

Thank you again.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #3 [Re: HPoirot] #2521478
12/29/14 08:30 PM
12/29/14 08:30 PM
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HPoirot Offline OP
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Hello again Wonka... I see you answered my questions as I typed my last post. Thank you again so much. I'll get better at the handoffs I'm sure as I go through the therapy. The goal there is detachment so a part of that will be letting go of my anger. I can't get there soon enough.

Just really trying to focus on me again. Trying to work but I still make it difficult. I have to do better there.

The initial effect of the Lexapro has worn off so now I'm a little shaky and tense again. So I see this will take days maybe weeks to really start working which is what it is. Just another battle to win.

This is challenging... not doing anything directly to change or fix the biggest pain in your life. There's no fixing it... just dealing with it.

My son will be back soon from a few hours with his mom. Time to take care of him and show him strength.

Keep going.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #3 [Re: HPoirot] #2521488
12/29/14 08:49 PM
12/29/14 08:49 PM
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Posts: 7,319
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Wonka Offline
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Everyone,

Saw a great post by Linda from Andy's thread so am re-posting it here.

Originally Posted By: RosaLinda
I'm hoping the new year will be a better one for you Andy. I am on MWD's mailing list, and just read an email she sent out entitled "10 New Year's Resolutions for Your Marriage." They really are great, I am going to copy and paste them here in the hope that they will be of some comfort and help to you.

1. Envision a positive outcome
There is no way that you can begin to accomplish positive change your marriage if you don't believe it is possible. Start by imagining what your life will be like when your marriage truly turns a corner. The more you can picture every detail, the easier it will be to eventually step into this picture at some later date.

2. Act as if you expect miracles to occur
Once you can imagine positive outcomes, reflect on how you will be behaving differently when they happen. Then start doing that right now!

3. Be kind, even if you think your spouse doesn't deserve it
You may be angry, disappointed, or even devastated by your spouse's choices and actions. However, rather than react to unsettling behavior, assume your spouse is lost and confused. Be patient, kind and steady and your efforts will pay off.

4. Focus on small, positive changes
Don't expect big changes overnight or you will be disappointed and it will make it hard to stay on track. Imagine the smallest change possible that would signal a shift in how things have been going. Then focus on that.

5. Promise yourself this will be a great year, no matter what
You can not control what your spouse does, but you can control what you decide to do with yourself and your children , if you have them. Take a deep breath and envision how you are going to make this a good year regardless of your spouse's choices.

6. Exercise your worry away
The most popular New Year's Resolution is to join a health club and exercise to become more fit. That is well and good. For you, exercise will be a lifesaver. It will help to assuage worries, feel good about yourself and increase feel-good hormones like endorphins. Go for it!

7. Do one new thing you enjoy
Don't become stale just because you are having a shaky time in your marriage. Novelty will stimulate your brain and maybe even your heart and help you have a more positive outlook about the future.

8. Make sure you have quality time with your children or other loved ones. Be present.
Many times, when people are teetering on the brink of divorce, their pain makes them become self-absorbed and staying the moment becomes and challenging task. You will never be able to do your children's childhood again, so do your best to be with them mentally when you're with them.

9. If you get off track, get back on quickly without self-blame
What separates the winners from the losers is not whether or how many times you get off track, it's how rapidly you get back on track. If you've veered from the Divorce Busting plan, hop right back on track without self-recrimination.

10. Do activities that help you rediscover serenity
Meditate, pray, hike in the mountains or watch a sky full of shooting stars. On a regular basis, do whatever it takes to bring you back to yourself. You and everyone around will benefit from your peacefulness.


I love how MDW sees things which is in line with my general spiritual beliefs. She's a smart cookie!

Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #3 [Re: Wonka] #2521513
12/29/14 09:47 PM
12/29/14 09:47 PM
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Posts: 841
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HPoirot Offline OP
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HPoirot  Offline OP
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Thank you so much Wonka for reposting RosaLinda's great post here. This is exactly what I've needed. Like item #1... sometimes I envision what it would be like to be in MC with W. What we would say... how we could heal. It makes me smile to do that.

On #3... being kind. My W again called and texted about having lunch together on S11's birthday tomorrow. She made mention of and sounded tired of me not responding to her contacts on her VM. Said it would be fantastic if we can have lunch. She won't have a car tomorrow so she suggests I could drive with S11 and meet her downtown. Talked with S11 and he said he feels sad but understands why I would not want to have lunch with his mom.

Also, W did talk with S11 about what is going on today. Told him she spends time in the old house at night feeling guilty and crying. S11 says he now trusts his mom more after their talk.

So I can text her kindly... "Hello W. Please go ahead and have lunch without me. S11 would love to see you. I can drop him off at your office at 12:30. How does that sound?"

And leave it at that.

Am I wrong? Would the kind thing be to give her this and play happy family?

Answer is no. I've gone pitch black dark. This is challenging. Part of me wants to go but it would be terrible. Boundary test right? She's done that so many times.

Last edited by HPoirot; 12/29/14 09:54 PM.

Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #3 [Re: HPoirot] #2521517
12/29/14 10:01 PM
12/29/14 10:01 PM
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Posts: 7,319
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Wonka Offline
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HP,

I think it is encouraging to hear that s11 and his Mom are having some convos. Continue to stay out of their R. You and s11 have a R too. Just remember not to put a burden on him that he feels he must save the M or make you and his Mom feel better.

Originally Posted By: HPoirot
So I can text her kindly... "Hello W. Please go ahead and have lunch without me. S11 would love to see you. I can drop him off at your office at 12:30. How does that sound?"

And leave it at that.

Am I wrong? Would the kind thing be to give her this and play happy family?

Answer is no. I've gone pitch black dark. This is challenging. Part of me wants to go but it would be terrible. Boundary test right? She's done that so many times.


Yes, your W is testing you in several ways which is why it's important for you to stick with LRT. Your response ^^^ sounds good for it is polite and respectful. I'd send it if I were you.

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