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A Message from Michele
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Re: The Goddess of the Goats Sees Into The Future [Re: LiveNow] #2517146
12/14/14 01:11 PM
12/14/14 01:11 PM
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jim0987 Offline
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Always happy to provide my ill informed opinions. smile actually that is probably one of my STBXW's complaints

Its strange whenever an American mentions revolution I feel an uncontrollable urge to stash my tea somewhere safe....


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
Re: The Goddess of the Goats Sees Into The Future [Re: jim0987] #2517218
12/14/14 07:15 PM
12/14/14 07:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
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Wonka Offline
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Jim,

I always like to retort to a British friend of mine who lives near me that you guys lost the Colonies just to put her in place in a jokey way. Nice to have that handy in my hip pocket. wink

Re: The Goddess of the Goats Sees Into The Future [Re: Wonka] #2517787
12/16/14 04:38 PM
12/16/14 04:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
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Card29 Offline
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GGG,

Would you mind stopping by my thread on Newcomers? Wonka informed me that you might have some good insight. I just revealed to my WAW my long time porn problem. She knew about it in our early years, but I eventually just hid it from her and convinced her I was over it. Now it's out in the open and she's in real pain from the news (surprising me, since she recently told me she wants a D). I'm following some of Wonka's validation and ownership advice, but I was wondering if you had anything else to add since you have the unique perspective of being betrayed by porn.

Thank you, and good wishes


Me 30, STBX 30
D3
M 8 years
BD 6/3/14
S 7/26/14
Off-and-on. PA since BD. Possibly "off" since Winter 2015?
Light Switch/I'm Over Her 12/31/14
D finalized 1/10/16
Re: The Goddess of the Goats Sees Into The Future [Re: Card29] #2517930
12/17/14 12:35 AM
12/17/14 12:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,174
Mid-Atlantic, USA
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GoatGal Offline OP
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Sure, Card.

I have been reading bits and pieces.
I would suggest that you go back to my earliest posts because they give some background on my sitch.

I am not anti-porn, per se, but for some people it can be a real problem. And when it becomes a problem, it destroys relationships. It destroys intimacy--the emotional kind.
It creates porn-induced ED, from which I believe my H suffered (among other things).

In my case, he began to prefer porn to me, and looking back I can see that he was not the LD (low desire) partner I thought I married. He was just giving a large portion of his energies to his solo pursuits and I was getting the obligatory once-a-week (if that) mechanical roll in the hay.

On his terms. Always his way and on his terms. My pleas for more emotional connection, more physical, non-sexual affection... fell on deaf ears.
As I "complained" he became even more distant, blaming ME for not being attractive to him for whatever fill-in-the-blank reason of the day.
And he turned away even more.

I finally gave up.

Even the exposure of his OW and all that betrayal didn't blow things up between us. After that he stated emphatically that he did NOT want a divorce.

All that changed when I exposed his porn addiction. (I really believe it is an addiction for him, and he has admitted it--then backpedaled and denied, round and round we go).

When I said, "The porn has got to go, it's that or me. Get help or get out.'
He left, after having filed for divorce. He LOST it when I changed the login info for the internet, and put a password on the computer. He bought himself a private laptop the very next day and locked me out of it.

He was furious. So you tell me that he doesn't have a real problem?
He didn't need it for work or keeping in touch with friends, let's just say that.

He eventually told me, by way of explanation of "Why" he wanted to divorce me.
"I'm only interested in shallow relationships... and porn is a big part of that."
He meant sexually. Obviously, marriage was no longer compatible with that vision of his perfect life.
Apparently, this was the only aspect of a relationship he was interested in at that time.
His online dating profile supported that.
He stated that he is looking for someone who has no other qualifications other than being interested enough in him to fulfill his sexual fantasies.
And that he would consider that "a serious relationship". I guess he means exclusive?
And perhaps he thinks there are plenty of women would be interested in this arrangement with a 63+ year old man who needs Viagra...?
Anyhow, he thinks it's somehow more preferable than having to "pay for it" but at this point in his life, I think it's only "pros" who are going to do what he now "needs" in order to perform. The average woman isn't going to be interested in what he has to offer in that department.

Let's just say that porn has ruined him for any kind of loving, connected sexual encounters. He liked to think that his OW was somehow "special" because he only needed Viagra "after awhile". Like when the novelty wore off and she started acting like a real person.
That relationship was carried on in great secrecy during work hours, involving a lot of sneaking around and fear of getting caught in public places.
Not exactly your "intimate, romantic" connection.

He really can't perform unless certain "circumstances" are met, and although I'm no prude, I'm not willing to just play his game his way any longer. I've had over 20 years of that crap and I'm done with it.

Sad, really.

I have stopped looking at his dating site for my "no snooping" mental health, so I don't know whether or not he's still in that phase, but he may well be. He seems to think the key to happiness is dangling between his legs.


Anyhow, the porn isn't the real issue, it's a symptom of what's wrong inside him. His fears of intimacy, various phobias, low self-esteem... they all make porn an attractive alternative to a wife who has needs, desires, and may "judge" him.
(I never did, btw.)

He has sought some help, but I don't ask questions about it. I figure he'll tell me if and when he feels it's relevant.

But I will get on over to your thread and do some more reading.


---(G)GGG


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



Re: The Goddess of the Goats Sees Into The Future [Re: jim0987] #2517936
12/17/14 01:00 AM
12/17/14 01:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,174
Mid-Atlantic, USA
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GoatGal Offline OP
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Jim,

I just wanted to say that so much of what you wrote above really resonated with me. It's almost like you were in my H's head--or maybe in mine!

I thought it was really insightful and it means a lot to me that you took the time to write everything in such detail.

I keep going back and reading bits and pieces, it's that interesting to me.
I don't really understand the mindset, but I think you hit on some really good theories about why he might react the way he does.

I think his self-esteem is really poor, especially now that he has behaved so terribly towards me. I know doing that is really causing some cognitive dissonance for him. He always prided himself on being a "good guy" and treating me well. In his own way, of course.

And we all know now that insisting on only showing his love in ways HE WANTED wasn't meeting my needs. He needed to speak my Love Language, and he never wanted to learn.

By the same token, he expected me to "know" what he wanted without asking. He had expectations for me which he never shared, he said "yes" when he meant "no".
He still doesn't seem to understand that there is a middle ground between agreeing and refusing.
He has always refused to discuss, cooperate, compromise, collaborate, communicate. We rarely fought, and when we did, it was because I expressed displeasure at something (however kindly) and he either took it as criticism and attacked me, or he manipulated the topic so it turned out to somehow be focused on me and my "faults" which I then ended up defending.

Somehow, it never went anywhere because he deflected and blamed me. And topped it all off with "It's my fault, I knew when I married you that you were (whatever). It's not fair to expect you to be any different."

And that's when we were talking about him! His behavior was "MY" fault.
I wish I had a nickel for every time he said "Well, I did THAT because YOU..."

Anyhow--enough H-Bashing. Poor man's got enough to deal with now.

But I can see now that that's the way things were, and I can't live like that anymore.
I'd like to believe he can change, but as I said before, he'd have to really WANT to. And I'm not sure he has the guts.

--(G)GGG

Re: The Goddess of the Goats Sees Into The Future [Re: GoatGal] #2517977
12/17/14 03:08 AM
12/17/14 03:08 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
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Mid-Atlantic, USA
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GoatGal Offline OP
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Quick Update:

Well, after having to push back a bit last week when H crossed my boundaries with some snide comments, it appears as if we have had a bit of a shift again.

The other night he was here and was doing his old "ignoring me" routine. It's not like I chatter on and on, just said something, then repeated it, he didn't respond---finally I asked if he heard me and he said, "yeah". (RUDE!!!!!)
I said I thought perhaps he'd left the room, to which he said "Well it wasn't a direct question so I didn't think I needed to reply."

It was just small talk, but since I rarely see him and I'm alone all the time and he was sitting not ten feet from me, and the comment was about him specifically, it was just his passive-aggressive crap and I wasn't having any of it.

After BD he did this ALL THE TIME. Would just ignore me if I said anything, not even grunt that he'd heard me. Got irritated if I said more than two sentences... he was back to this last week, snipping at me on the phone, really short with me. Wanted to relay his info and clearly was annoyed that I even said "Oh, that's interesting..." whatever...

Anyhow, I didn't react, that I knew of, but he must have been watching me because he caught it. I was getting ready to go out. (Looking HAWT!!!!) and he asked:
"So---what did I do to piss you off so much?"

(Here's me, hadn't said a word, didn't make a sound, didn't think I'd communicated my annoyance with his ignoring me. He's a good observer.)

Anyhow, I said. "It's just me. I guess I have an expectation that by this point, you'd be able to be in a room with me and not act like I have the plague, that we'd be at a place where if one of us spoke, the other would respond in a friendly and supportive manner. But that's just my expectation, not a demand on you. You are free to respond however you like. My frustration is only that I had an expectation, and it was not met."

He said---nothing.

So I left...forgot my scarf and came back in, and he was all nice and chatty...offered a solution for my car, and was extra nice to me.
Taking a page from Jim's playbook(!) I took this as his "apology"... and said I was sorry if I came off snippy, it's not my intent.
I told him that I was just---sensitive--to the interactions between us and I would try to toughen up a bit more.

That was Saturday. Since then he's been nice as pie.
Still no communication during the day from him, but I do not initiate AT ALL. If he writes a two word text to me, I don't respond.

I am "training" him for what I want. REAL COMMUNICATION.
So I am very pleasant, funny, helpful and nice when he calls. I call him back promptly, and I respond to his nice texts/emails with nice ones of my own.

So 90% warmth or sometimes 100%.

He sent me an email about Ukulele playing, a link he found, and this is unusual because he HATED my ukulele playing in general. I consider that a peace offering.
---------------------------------------------------------------

One thing I have been looking for is for him to do something nice for me without me asking. Now he's been doing that for a few days.

For the first time in almost a year he asked me if I "needed anything" while he was on his way here. (This he used to do every day before BD, but never since.)

He spent quite a bit of time researching something I needed for my upcoming trip, went to three different stores, and finally gave me a solution I could do myself, apologizing for not being able to get what I needed.
(I hadn't even asked him to do this, he OFFERED! This is NEW!)

He now calls on a regular basis.
He is giving me his whereabouts consistently. He is doing small things for me without me having to ask. He is offering, as I've wanted him to do.

I know a few of you thought I was being a bit harsh with him when he pushed my buttons, but I think he needed to know that I was still "me" and wasn't going to take any chit!

I think perhaps my "nice a pie" routine might have started to come off a bit phony. I am a strong sort, and although I can be all sweet and compassionate, I also don't brook any nonsense.

The fact remains that H doesn't respect people who allow others to walk all over them.

((STARSKY!!!! <3 ))))

So I had to find my girlie balls and let 'em swing free for a few days. It seemed to clear up a few things, anyway.

That's the latest, DBers.

I'll be traveling between now and Jan 3 or so, but I'll be checking in regularly.
I want to make sure nobody drowns in the Eggnog...


---(G)GGG
PS: When did I get a smiley next to my name? I like it! Did I do that?

Re: The Goddess of the Goats Sees Into The Future [Re: GoatGal] #2517979
12/17/14 03:14 AM
12/17/14 03:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,174
Mid-Atlantic, USA
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GoatGal Offline OP
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<<<<<<How does this happen?
When did we all get faces?
And why is Wonka's so sad?

Are the gray ones GHOSTS?????
Because I do NOT want to see dead people.

The live ones are scary enough.
Really.

Re: The Goddess of the Goats Sees Into The Future [Re: GoatGal] #2517987
12/17/14 03:42 AM
12/17/14 03:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
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Wonka Offline
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GGG,

Sad?? I'm sad? Since when?

And we do have girlie balls??! Where can I find 'em?

I'm starting to think that Jim has H figured out pretty well. I can't really understand the male mind although I confess that rather saying "sorry", I do offer peace offerings through AOS. I have always have a hard time saying sorry. One time I apologized to my late father not too long before he passed on, his eyes widened in mock shock and gave me that look. I burst out laughing.

Re: The Goddess of the Goats Sees Into The Future [Re: Wonka] #2517998
12/17/14 04:17 AM
12/17/14 04:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,174
Mid-Atlantic, USA
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GoatGal Offline OP
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Wonky,

<<<<< It's the Avatars next to our user names.
Mine is a smiley, but yours is a sad, gray ghosty face.

It can't be # of posts...thoughts?

And yes. We have girlie balls.
They're called OVARIES.


Re: The Goddess of the Goats Sees Into The Future [Re: GoatGal] #2518001
12/17/14 04:22 AM
12/17/14 04:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,174
Mid-Atlantic, USA
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GoatGal Offline OP
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Mozza said on Card's thread:

"Those moments of openness and honesty are those we fear the most yet they are the ones that provide the greatest satisfaction. There's nothing I'd want more just now than to tell my W what I learned and where I failed her. Not all of us find the right time and channel to do so."

This is so good I'm stealing it for my thread because I wish I'd said it!



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