Do I start 180 at this point?

[25yearsmlc]

[quote=twb66]I think I have already violated most of the 37 rules. I did everything wrong. So I need to know if I should continue what I've been doing or get started on the 37 rules.

To be clear, are you asking if you should do what you know is NOT working

VERSUS doing something new & different?

Gee, I'll throw out my answer without even reading another.

Okay, Do NOT do what you know has failed. Doing what isn't helpful, is part of why you are here.

and YES You Should do what IS working (or is at least different from what is failing...

The answer is DON'T DO WHAT DOES NOT WORK

and DO WHAT HELPS.

IF you are doing what has not helped, and might have even harmed your relationship --why would you consider continuing that? So, NO, don't keep doing it.

The 180s are always to be done. That's b/c

you are always trying NOT to fuel the reasons your spouse has for wanting out,

so it's always in your interests to counter their negative views of you, w/Positives, which are those 180s...

We want your WAS to Reconsider their decision...so confusing them with your new behavior, undermining their negative views of you, is a GOOD thing. Do you see why?

So is the answer to your question more obvious to you now?

Okay I hope you've ordered the DB book(s) and that you Will read them asap.

Meanwhile I'll read your other posts os This thread, further, so I can better advise later...

[MrBond]

"MrBond. I think I have ample help now and someone else would benefit from your help better than me. "

Good luck to you then. I will tell you one thing. You and your W will be going through a "honeymoon" phase. Feelings will feel more intense, sex will appear to be wonderful, etc. But those will fade.

You ignored my recommendation to buy the books, instead thinking it's something that you don't need. If you don't actually invest in the books, then it doesn't seem like you want to invest in the commitment for your M.

The 5LL will only get you so far. You also ignored my request for you to list the problems you had in your M. If you want to maximize the small number of people who are posting to you, then you have to open up more so you can be advised. I and others have saved their M's only because we were able to take the hard criticism as well as the compliments from the posters. You don't seem to take that very well.

[not4me]

MrBond
I have stated I ordered the books. They are not here yet. You have said I need to read them before coming for advice. So why are you badgering me about not posting things. Do you want them now or after I read? I didn't ignore you, I chose to disregard your commentary and demands. It wouldn't useful to comply since you fail to read what I post. You want to be argumentive, I won't engage. I would hope you would give me the courtesy of gracefully moving on as I had tried.

[claire7]

twb66,

We tend to reveal a lot about our personalities (and ability to receive criticism or resolve conflict) from our postings.

Is the way you are responding to Mr. Bond the way you typically respond to criticism?

What's holding you back from posting the problems you had in your M? Mr. Bond said it wouldn't make sense for us to offer you advice (based on DB principles) if you haven't read the book. But that doesn't mean you can't start your own self-reflection, does it?

DBing is not for the faint of heart. Good luck.

[MrBond]

Just a clarification. I'm not engaging you in anything. While you're waiting for the books, I and others are telling you that the principle of DB is to change yourself. I can tell you that even though you said you've changed, there are probably aspects that you may not be changing in a way that would help your M.

Your posts focus on the A and even though the A may be over, if you don't change the correct things, you may find yourself back here again. I've seen it time and time again. However, you appear to take things personally. No one said you haven't changed, in fact, I applaud you for that. But there's often a bigger picture that you may be missing. Ask any WAS.

[JCred]

My first thought is that I highly recommend to set up an appointment with a Divorce Busting coach. I recommend Chuck.
I think a highly trained professional is crucial to you right now. I would think that you should just do a one on one to start and go from there. I would hope your marriage is important enough to seriously seek out professional help.

We are mere amateurs trying to help..

The thing that stands out to me right now in how I can best help you is when you wrote this:

She was pushing me away for years and acting selfishly but doesn't seem to have any thoughts of doing anything to address issues I have with her. She wants nothing to do with talking about issues that got us here.

Should I just forget these issues and hope all the extra time, hugs, kisses etc will make it all better? I am being selfish and controlling in thinking she needs to address my issues with her too?

I need some advice here.

Can you tell me what issues you have (had) with her? Sounds like she has lied about other things in the past. As far as being selfish and controlling about your issues with her, it probably could come across as those things to her if you keep pushing her to talk about them.

Remember.. Women are attracted to confident and happy men. Emotionally strong men.. Men who don't seem concerned so much about their own needs, but are concerned about HER needs. (And yet don't let her walk all over him.)(Find the balance)
They are not attracted to needy and clingy men. (as your wife admitted about why she dumped the OM)

So, the first thing I would like to know is what issues you have with her. Then we could help with a plan to maybe find a way to address those issues without her feeling pressured to talk about them. There are other ways to get around that once we know what they are.... We may be able to even get HER to bring them up without you mentioning them....

You are doing fine so far. It sounds as if she did break it off, but who knows for sure at this point.

The part about her not meeting him along with her past history of lying to you about other things is a red flag to me. That would need to be addressed at some point, but I would hold it close to my vest for now..


You need a game plan. Things are going good now and it would be a great opportunity for you to incorporate some other relationship skills into the mix as you go... I am talking the silent, strong,confident, happy man type things that women are attracted to........In other words LIVING IT without mentioning it to her. (Women like that stuff)

Strong,(emotionally) confident, happy.. Find things to laugh about with her. Most women I know love to laugh and let loose now and then.. I wouldn't get too serious so much.. Keep it light, but be OBSERVANT....

[JCred]

What's holding you back from posting the problems you had in your M? Mr. Bond said it wouldn't make sense for us to offer you advice (based on DB principles) if you haven't read the book.

No offense, but Mr. Bond isn't speaking for me when you mention "us"

I can and will offer advice based on the DB principles whether he has the books now or now. There is plenty of information on this site about the principles. He says the books are on the way.

[JCred]

Michelle in DB regarding picking a therapist..

I would think they apply to those on here trying to help others...

3.)

You Are The Experts, You Set The Goals....
Another reason traditional therapy can be uncomfortable is that a trademark of many of these approaches is confrontation. The therapist boldly confronts clients about behavior considered self-destructive or unproductive. Sometimes these attacks occur before a person is willing to deal with an issue or are totally inconsistent with a person's self concept. Naturally this harsh and dissonant feedback is disturbing and, in my experience, rarely effective in helping a person change. Typically, one digs one's heels in deeper when feeling attacked.

Confrontation is not necessary during therapy. Most people take the initiative to address issues and concerns they are willing to change. If they don't raise certain issues, it's because they are not willing or ready to deal with them. Therapists should respect people's intuitive sense of direction and self-protection and follow the clients lead.

[25yearsmlc]

MrBond
I will wait for the books. I guess you didn't read my posts above where I admitted deficiencies of my own. So I don't quite understand the insinuation that I am covering up anything.

Twb,

FYI, when you first come here, you're on "moderation" and it takes us a lot longer to find your posts, than you realize.

So you'll think no one cares os "Hey, no one replies" but in reality we have not yet seen what you posted. (Hope I'm being clear enough there).

Keep posting (even in short posts, it's the numbers that matter most) and then we'll answer more easily and you'll get more feedback, and so on.

[25yearsmlc]

Thank you Sandi. I appreciate your input and advice.

No, she hasn't done this or acted like this before. I will be alert to slipping back. The relationship is a lot better than before but this may be due to the excitement of restarting the romance and may fade at some point. But with learning some better skills reading these suggested books I may keep it from backsliding to where we were.


First, I apologize in advance for the length of this post, but I wanted to cover a lot in a short time.

Yes The romance WILL fade at some point. I am not being cynical, I'm just being an adult. The demands of parenting or work will come up, & life comes up and all marriages ebb and flow.
No one can keep up The Infatuation stage forever.

So my question is what skills, specifically, are you working on or trying to gain?

The more specific you are, the easier it is to measure your progress AND, the more specific you are, the clearer your own goals will be.

Make sense?

MrBond. I think I have ample help now and someone else would benefit from your help better than me. Thank you for your interest.

This^^ is a mistake you are making at your peril. It's also baffling to me. And you cannot count on Sandi or me or anyone else volunteering their time to help you when you openly reject a man like Bond.

Bond is a pro marriage advocate, an experienced DBer, and he had success in restoring his marriage; which is not all that common around here.

More important is the reason you'd ignore and resent his questions. I hope you'll reflect on that with some gravity; b/c it is notable.

Bond merely asked you what Sandi and I would ask of you (in time). Actually Sandi did ask similar questions and you didn't get upset, but you also were non specific...Here is what we ask nearly all people who come here...


Such as, "what would your Spouse SAY to her closest friend, if she were to explain WHY she wanted to leave the marriage?"

Your answers seemed to ME, to be skimming the surface... I didn't get a lot of "inner reflection" with the intention of truly digging deep and examining your specific role in this. That's an observation, not an insult.

You need to know it is SO difficult to advise you as to what "180s" to do or how to keep a PMA, or types of GAL, learning to detach, etc. without the books so he's trying to save you time AND get you to where you need to be,

in order to hep You change what you can change, in YOU.

(Btw, those ^^^ terms are in the DB books and you will get a LOT more out of this site once you have read the book(s). (Incidentally, the Div Busting book was published first.
The Div Remedy book (aka "DR") seemed more like a 2nd edition of the Div Busting book, rather than a very different book.

The DR book gives you less "anti divorce" material and more "how to help the marriage" techniques than the first Div Busting book. You decide what you need most, first.

I realize you may have financial problems keeping you from buying either of the books, which is why you are waiting for the library to have them.
So, are financial stresses one of the factors that contributed to this marital crisis?

Do you and your wife both work outside the home, and do you view & handle money the same ways??

If your version of what happened is totally accurate, then your marriage has had a HUGE painful disaster totally avoided --

and ALL b/c you "confronted" her?? Sorry, but like Sandi, I'm afraid you are being played, although she may not even realize it if she is trying to convince herself of something...

So, what did You say that would make her completely reverse the recent remarks she made to the OM? (Wow, that speech sure must have been persuasive...)

My concern is that of the women who have A's and then "snap out of it", the vast majority are truly mortified, filled with remorse, shame and profound regret.

From your description, that is not the case here.
It's unusual for a wife to come back from such an intense sounding affair/fling, without any rancor, AND then for her to want sex with you this often, "post affair",

Showing no sense of loss of the OM is also rare. When you read the DB books you will see this discussed and it's tough to read all that --and not feel as if something is amiss.

Is the amount of lovemaking that you're presently having, just a return to normal for you guys, or is it more than you are used to having?)


Hey I'm really not trying to be a downer, okay? But her affair sounded pretty intense, yet has been totally reversed pretty darn fast.

I know you are concerned too, and that makes sense.

So, you will need to dig deep (they say the "real journey in life is an inward one")
and figure out 2 things.

Figure out as best you can,

1) WTH happened to the marriage, (AND, WTH between you two), that got you guys here?

AND secondly,


2) what are YOU going to do differently, to avoid having this happen again?

I am asking you what YOU are going to do differently (not her)

b/c you only control YOU, and you are the one here, working for your marriage; she's not.


Also, can you give us some background? (Sorry if it was there and I missed it b/c I did look). Here are questions we nearly always want answered, so we can target our resources best.

How long have you been married? Any Children? If so, their ages, Your ages, your backgrounds, your job demands if you are employed, any physical ailments with either of you?

History of depression, and or anxiety in either of you?

Have either of you had any major life event, such as a death or job loss, or health scare, in the past 36 months? How did that affect you/her?

What are the educational similarities/ differences between you?
Do you view and treat financial issues the same way?

What was Your wife's family life like, growing up? And Yours?

What was a your parents marriage like, and what was their communication style?
and last but not least,

how was forgiveness demonstrated in your childhood

and hers?


These^^ will help us help you. (Per Jerry MaGuire )

But if you refuse to answer them, it only makes it harder for us to help you, which btw, we all do on our own dime.

I came here convinced my m was ending soon. So many people tried to help me and about half a dozen totally "got me" and were instrumental in my staying power with this approach. Total strangers helped me stay married. Kind of a beautiful thing even if we had divorced.

I also had 15 DB coaching sessions, with a wonderful DB coach (a real Godsend).

My DB coach was PIVOTAL to our reconciliation.

That was in addition to having a very good MC.

(We've had 3 MC's in the past, all of whom my h disliked or distrusted. He would say that I had "Brainwashed" them b/c they'd tell him things like he was "not acting as if he had a family" or was "being selfish" (yeah, one said that outright!) and another said "you seem to want to live like a Single man"..

All these things ^ I agreed with...even felt vindicated by those remarks...like I had "Won" b/c hey, "I'M RIGHT!"

But then I realized these T's made me also feel powerless. 2 questions always lurked...

1) "If I'm so great, WHY doesn't he love me/us enough to stay? WHY?"

(=the fear is, that "maybe I'm NOT so good or even lovable...")

OR If I am truly faultless ---AND YET my h still wants to leave me,

then what on earth will stop it from happening to me, again and again?

How can I ever feel safe with her/him Anyone?


From that - I learned to rejoice when a counselor told me I had something to work on in ME. It was empowering!

A lot of marriage counselors today recommend going with the "feelings du jours", so if you are unhappy with your commitment, break it, instead of teaching us "how to keep our commitments AND be happy with them....


BTW, I thought you should know Bond is possibly the most requested male veteran around here and as I said, you "fire" him at your peril.

IN truth, I've never witnessed anyone telling him to leave their thread. I think that was a tragic loss on your end which you probably cannot fathom at this time...

Well, in any case, you may want to read his questions to you again - and see where your defensiveness came from....b/c it was there.

OR maybe you didn't realize you were on moderation here. See, (like ME) you may have assumed he had something to do with you not getting more replies??

But it was not a factor at all. It was just the relatively small number of your threads and your newness to the boards.

So, good luck and PLEASE DO give this^^ some attention.

You may have dodged a bullet with your marriage problems, but hey,

why not do all you can to ensure that?

On that note, (again - I apologize for this "tome" but it does cover a lot of parts...

GOOD LUCK!!