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LNMW,

My wife texted me about 50 messages – basically saying that I am coward, selfish, and every other mean thing a person can say. I sent her only one text message telling her that I love her and that I want to make this marriage work, but that I will not tolerate being berated, her seeing/calling/txting OM behind my back and not communicating/working with me to solve issues. She responded that I should just sign the divorce papers. I didn’t respond back but she kept calling my phone throughout the day. I sent her one last txt message telling her that I cannot talk to her right now until we are both ready to have an honest, open and willingness to listen conversation about the relationship. I basically got more verbal abuse via txt messages.
^^^^^^^^^

That was basically the kinda sh** my exW put me through. That is cake-eating and abusing you emotionally, morally and financially. Cut her off, kick her out, let her enjoy the OM for who he really is. You do not have to do all 3 in a mean spirited way, but if she is just out to use you, get rid of her.



"Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing, and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you. And stay." ~ Will Smith
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Originally Posted By: lovenomatterwhat
It feels like I am at that point. I never wanted this. I would do anything to reverse time, to start over from the beginning and undo all my mistakes. I realized too late how valuable family and marriage is. I know that she had a part but my contribution to this was big. I don't know what to do any more.


Sandi wrote about getting a plan 2 weeks ago. It seems you still don't have one.

You aren't a victim. Plan and act.


me: 45 W:45
M 20 years
T 22 years
S14, S13, S11, D9
BD 2/28/14
D papers served 3/3/14
I moved out 3/15/14
MC start 4/2/14
I moved in 6/2/14
D suit withdrawn 6/30/14
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Hi Nettles

I dont know what to do much less get a plan. I don't feel like a victim - I feel like a sinner who got what he deserved. i miss my family so much but I don't know anymore on what the best course of action is. i regret moving out - i wish i would have stayed if anything so I could at least see my daughter. I am lost and dont know what i need to be doing to save this marriage. I feel like I've tried almost everything. I really need some advice on what options do i really have it this point - nothing seems to be working

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Originally Posted By: lovenomatterwhat
[quote]Is this the same W you had back in 2008 when you first joined?

It is. Can't believe its been that long - where does time go.



Wow, sorry for the length of this but Hey, I read your thread, back to 2008.

I'm glad I did, b/c it makes me see your wife in a very different light. (If anyone else is interested, just read his very first post from 2008).

Here is a tiny piece of what YOU WROTE BACK THEN, 3 months AFTER you were divorced from this same woman.


Here is my situation. My wife of 6 years finally had our divorce finalized about three month ago. She filed and was right for doing it. In a nutshell..., our marriage was great for the first three years. I was happy and she was happy – we both worked hard at getting our needs met.

When we had our first child – a daughter – I freaked out. I didn’t want the responsibility of being a father. The first three months I thought I was going to lose my mind. To make a long story short, I left the house and moved in with a guy friend of mine. For the next two years I was in and out of my wife/daughter's life. In short, I neglected them and I was wrong for doing it........

About [b]six months before the divorce, she would beg
and plea for me to move back in – to be a family. I was stupid, immature, and did not realized what a great family I had till it was taken away.
About two months before we got a divorce –I guess you can say I woke up. I realized that I did love my wife and daughter – that I really did what to be with my family.

My bet is that deserting your wife at the most vulnerable time in her life,
did extreme damage to your wife's feelings of safety inside the marriage, her ego as a wife & new mother, and her love for you.

*("Most vulnerable" to me, means she experienced so much right then; e.g., the labor & childbirth, newborn care, especially her first baby, massive sleep deprivation, recovering from childbirth and all that entails, hormones...I think you get the picture).

I'd like you to understand how deep those feelings of & desire for safety are for a woman.
In a large study of what spouses value most from their mates, 2 things were found for each gender.

MEN want their wives 1) to be attractive to them, (i.e. "have chemistry") AND

2) peace in the home.


Sociologists suggests that^^^ it probably means no nagging or complaining to the h when he gets home. He wants "peace" at home.

From their husbands, WOMEN most value

1) Security & 2) Fidelity.


For Security, sociologists said it likely means both financial security & physical, and both of these values are increased w/children in the picture.

Financial security from our man may seem unfair in todays' more feminist culture, but it still seems true. Women do value a man who puts food on the table & a roof over her/baby's head. Shoot, I know some women who stay married to their husbands solely because they are "good providers". In some cultures that's the norm.

"Physical security", means we like to feel protected by our man, (so the scary noise in the closet means our hubby goes to look while we back them up with the lamp...But a man who is violent with his family, will never make a wife feel secure.
And a woman who does not feel secure with her man, does not feel loving very often either...

RE; 2) Fidelity, seems to be pretty self explanatory.


I doubt she ever really trusted You again, fully, when you "reconciled". (I wish you had done Retrovaille THEN, b/c the results would likely have been SO different).

It must have been so terrifying to have her man leave her at her most vulnerable time, (i.e. right after giving birth, & coping with her first child, a newborn baby). What a combination for her to face all alone...

In the back of her mind, she may have feared it would happen all over again.

Plus she had to think of the baby's needs too. A baby needs a dad AND food & a roof over her head.

So if your wife wanted to remarry you in part for financial reasons, so what --AS LONG as you both put the work into it...

(which is THE important underlying issue, I know...)


I'm just saying as long as a couple does DO the work they need to do, I'm not totally positive how important their original reasons for trying again, are....

I've thought about this & the finances IN MY Marriage, as an issue, since my h would suffer A LOT financially if we divorced. I know that. But as long as I see conscientious love & effort on his end, I'm okay with whatever his original reasons were.

I don't want to mind read your wife too much, but my guess is she wanted the financial stability of marriage to you,
AND she hoped the M would go back to how it was when you were happier together...and she could again feel the SECURITY she so craved...

but, she never learned how to forgive you; AND
you did not change much, behaviorally.

The motivation to forgive drops a lot if you don't see change in the other partner-- that's what you said recently (or someone said TO you) but a few years ago she could have made the same comment, right?

(Sure, your appreciation for her awakened in you; you missed her...but what did you DO differently? I didn't pick up on behaviors of significance that were better than before & I have not heard what your 180s were or GAL).

Finally, we COULD all review the marital history some more, and allocate % of blame here and there, be sure to point out how "immature/selfish" You were to leave her with a baby b/c you "freaked out", (that's what a real "Cad" does), and OR we can go nuts about how bitter she is and how she mistreated you then and...

But let's STOP ALL THAT^^^^ b/c isn't your time & ours, much better spent on what to do "Now & from this day forward" ?


I'll post more later.

For now, I'd urge you to read up on Forgiveness, and the "No More Mr Nice Guy" book IF you have not already read it. AND the Five Love Languages by Chapman.
Your wife is not the only one struggling with forgiveness...but again, we'll discuss that more later...

It's crucial to have a GOOD IC for you, & to stay in the present, so no more wallowing in the past. No more hand wringing or talking about how you "ruined it", "blew it" in the PAST, and no more "If Only I had done X..."

You made mistakes, so be it. Self loathing & chronic indecisions about yourself or the situation, are not serving you well at all. They're destructive.

Time to Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and take a step forward, today. Because

All you can do today, is do/be your best today.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Did she tell you to leave this last time, or did you make the decision to get out?

I usually read the backstory before I ever post, but somehow missed the 2008 date you joined. It seems a lot of damage has been done on both sides.

How many times over the years have you left to stay a while (nights or weeks) away from your W?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: lovenomatterwhat
Hi Nettles

I dont know what to do much less get a plan. I don't feel like a victim - I feel like a sinner who got what he deserved. -- i regret moving out - i wish i would have stayed if anything so I could at least see my daughter. I am lost and dont know what i need to be doing to save this marriage. I feel like I've tried almost everything. I really need some advice on what options do i really have it this point - nothing seems to be working


You have gotten a lot of advice, including some very specific parts. I'm not sure what exactly you feel you have tried doing. Also, whatever it is, must be done for long enough to be able to assess whether it's working in part, in full or not at all.

What is it you think you have tried, for long enough, to decide "it's not working"??
I feel as if your lack of patience is coloring your views. You think you have done a lot and that "nothing seems to be working" but you skim over CHUNKS of behaviors or forget to disclose them or you revert, and or you go against the advice given and think "oh well, I'll just start over again."

but the thing is, when you go against the advice given, sometimes that means you set yourself farther back than you would be, had you done nothing.

Doing the wrong thing at this point can be darn Unhelpful and it's not always something you can just 'un do", without a lot of time. And time isn't something you have an infinite supply of.

For every year of a behavior you do NOT want, (let's call it a "fault"), the spouse must counter for at least a month.

Meaning, for every year of a bad behavior (let's say "always being late"), you must do the opposite/180 for a month, to get your spouse to believe in the change.

So you'd have to be uber punctual for a month for every year of being late.

So If you were married 3 years and were always late the whole marriage, then it'd take 3+ months of you being super punctual, for your w to think maybe you are no longer Mr Late.

Do the "math" and the "math" of it is this:


"Consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in."


make sense?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
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LNMW, and Sandi,

here is part of the very first post from 2008, that might address the forgotten portions and answer a lot of questions about how your wife got here.

From 2008, the First Post...



Here is my situation. My wife of 6 years finally had our divorce finalized about three month ago. She filed and was right for doing it.

In a nutshell, our marriage was great for the first three years. I was happy and she was happy – we both worked hard at getting our needs met.

When we had our first child – a daughter – I freaked out. I didn’t want the responsibility of being a father. The first three months I thought I was going to lose my mind. To make a long story short, I left the house and moved in with a guy friend of mine. For the next two years I was in and out of my wife/daughters life. In short, I neglected them and I was wrong for doing it.


I always loved my wife, but I couldn’t handle the stress of being a dad at the time. I never wanted children (so I thought) and I guess you can say our daughter was unplanned. She was right for leaving.

About six months before the divorce, she would beg and plea for me to move back in – to be a family. I was stupid, immature, and did not realized what a great family I had till it was taken away.

About two months before we got a divorce – I guess you can say I woke up. I realized that I did love my wife and daughter – that I really did what to be with my family. I asked my wife to take me back and she told me that she didn’t love me anymore. I made the mistake and begged, cried, and pleaded with her to take me back. I only drove her further away. I finally stopped doing that and decided that I was going to start loving her – to put her needs first and to not focus on my own needs – but rather her own happiness. Slowly, we started to talk, but she still went through with the divorce.


Now we’ve gotten to the point where we talk quite a bit on the phone and do things together. At first she was questioning my change – wondering what my motive was. She would say stuff like “you never did that before.”

After three months of being divorce, I can see that she is slowing starting to confide in me again – that trust is starting to be rebuilt. However, she will jokingly say stuff like “I know what you are doing” or that “there is no way we are getting back together.” That hurts.


I feel like we have made a lot of progress, but she keeps asking me if there are any strings attached with me being so nice and attentive to her needs. I tell her that I just want her to be happy and that anything I do I do with no conditions.

I want to be reconciled with my ex-wife so badly. I love her and my daughter so much. I didn’t realize the sacrifices and work that having a family takes – I was a fool for ever leaving. I feel like my ex and I have made so much progress these last three months, and yet I feel that maybe it is hopeless at times


MUCH of what is said now about "hopelessness" is repeated lately. There is a pattern. I would just reiterate what I wrote earlier in that LONG post...(which I hope you'll read carefully).

IMO, she never truly got over the previous desertion, and things were swept under the rug and not truly resolved. I don't know of any "work" you two did, or new tools either of you picked up over the years. So a lot of this is history being repeated but with different roles played.

Sort of the whole "Insanity" definition, meaning "Doing the same thing again & again but expecting different results". Sure, you say you realized how important family really is and that it takes work...

but what did YOU DO differently than before? I'm asking sincerely.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
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Oh, I remember now. Are you still around LNMW?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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