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Anders Offline OP
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I'm still trying to stay focused on my strategy of creating a safe space for us to communicate honestly as we have been slowly emerging from NC.

But in the last week, I wonder if this is still the right approach or if I am sending signals that I don't have any intentions of attempting a reconciliation?


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 180
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Anders Offline OP
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^bump^


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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Originally Posted By: Anders
A roller coaster of a day. Someone found W's profile on a dating site and told me. I shouldn't be surprised as she made it clear she was planning on moving on but still it is very devastating to hear.

I shouldn't have got my hopes up after last week's call but I did. And it really hurts to fall back to the reality of how determined she is that there is no hope for us.

Any advice on what I should do?




So you know, I posted on a dating site when H and i were sep. And I dated (as did he). 2 of the men I dated were very cool and very desirable.


So the good news is that they are out there, AND I've "Still got it".

But The OTHER GOOD NEWS IS'

that it turns out my h and i are really quite well suited for each other. Dating OMs was a great reminder of that.

Don't assume every date or every OM/OW is a great catch AND that it convinces the WAS that a divorce is the answer.

ON the contrary, there were times I wished I could rush home to H's arms, missing him MORE...

and other times, when I'd had "good dates", still sometimes made me feel bittersweet. b/c I'd think 'if h and I could only have had a night like THIS", etc.

The point is, a lot of a strong marriage with a deep bond is hard to duplicate or replace and there are simply times that it seems only meeting OPs can show you that.

It's like yes the grass is green over there and in some places a bit greener BUT I CAN MAKE THIS GRASS GREENER TOO.

and other times you just shake your head and pray your spouse is also thinking''

something like "h/w would have known I was joking/or "would have laughed at that one"

and or, "spouse would have picked THAT, and this would have been so great"

OR when the new person misses the point, or chooses the "wrong" movie or misinterprets things, hey, there is a lot to be said for familiarity. IT's not all bad at all.

THAT is when you miss your bff. And if you once were really bonded and close, she won't forget that.

Takes a lot of time to FIND that and then build it. It's not instant at all, AND that assumes she'd meet a great guy AND that he is also ready for a real R.


I think you backed off too fast after pushing for a dvorce and you seem to have "forgotten" how you guys got here. It's not as if she was alone.

You played a big fat role in the original situation.****SO what are YOU DOING Differently so you two do't get here again and can you commit to a marriage in which you both share a home? IF NOT< then this is a set up for failure.***

FYI I did NOT agree with your original "go dark" approach when you had ALSO been the one to bring up divorce and then push for it.

You asked me to stop by and let you know, and that's how I see it so far.

I'll keep reading and IF my opinion changes, I'll let you know.

So far that is my .02


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

So you know, I posted on a dating site when H and i were sep. And I dated (as did he). 2 of the men I dated were very cool and very desirable.


So the good news is that they are out there, AND I've "Still got it".

But The OTHER GOOD NEWS IS'

that it turns out my h and i are really quite well suited for each other. Dating OMs was a great reminder of that.

Don't assume every date or every OM/OW is a great catch AND that it convinces the WAS that a divorce is the answer.

ON the contrary, there were times I wished I could rush home to H's arms, missing him MORE...

and other times, when I'd had "good dates", still sometimes made me feel bittersweet. b/c I'd think 'if h and I could only have had a night like THIS", etc.

The point is, a lot of a strong marriage with a deep bond is hard to duplicate or replace and there are simply times that it seems only meeting OPs can show you that.

It's like yes the grass is green over there and in some places a bit greener BUT I CAN MAKE THIS GRASS GREENER TOO.

and other times you just shake your head and pray your spouse is also thinking''

something like "h/w would have known I was joking/or "would have laughed at that one"

and or, "spouse would have picked THAT, and this would have been so great"

OR when the new person misses the point, or chooses the "wrong" movie or misinterprets things, hey, there is a lot to be said for familiarity. IT's not all bad at all.

THAT is when you miss your bff. And if you once were really bonded and close, she won't forget that.

Takes a lot of time to FIND that and then build it. It's not instant at all, AND that assumes she'd meet a great guy AND that he is also ready for a real R.



^^^^^THIS should be a sticky. This is what I believe a LBS who's S is having an A or is dating needs to hear.


Me: 42
W: 32
Married 7 years together 8.5
S1: 7 S2:7
Bomb #1: 09-16-13
Recon #1: 11/13
A discovered 04-03-2014
W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me
I filed D 12-02-2014
S 05-31-14
Divorced 5-19-16
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 180
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Anders Offline OP
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Thanks 25years for coming by and for your honest and very insightful thoughts on my situation. Just getting back to the board today after a busy week with work transition.

You are absolutely right. I own a very big part of all of this. And I am struggling to find a way to help us out of this without pushing her even further away.

I had been going back and forth on my approach so far. Most voices both on the board and offline had been advocating for giving her space and time. Since May, I have been projecting that though I do not want us to end that I am okay with what she ultimately decides. This was with the intent not to pursue and push her further away.

I have been initiating contact a bit more, picking up on the increased communication from her since July but still being very cautious about it. But no overt talks about our situation, reconciliation or divorce.

Quote:
***SO what are YOU DOING Differently so you two do't get here again and can you commit to a marriage in which you both share a home? IF NOT< then this is a set up for failure.***


In the last few weeks, I have been reflecting on this and feel that the right thing to do at this point in time would be to call her and have the reconciliation talk honestly. I was actually planning to do so tonight and came on the board to get perspective on this when I read your note.

I have tried to keep every interaction we have had as positive and upbeat as possible without pursuing her in the slightest. My goal was to try and re-create a safe enough space for us to talk openly again without hiding behind the screen of logistics discussions on finances.

But most important and the most challenging work has been addressing my own fears instead of running away every time. She doesn't feel safe with me and this is a big part of it.

Last edited by Anders; 09/06/14 03:45 PM. Reason: grammar

M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 180
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Anders Offline OP
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Quote:
But The OTHER GOOD NEWS IS'

that it turns out my h and i are really quite well suited for each other. Dating OMs was a great reminder of that.

Don't assume every date or every OM/OW is a great catch AND that it convinces the WAS that a divorce is the answer.


Thank you 25years for sharing the other perspective on dating and the potential positive side to this. This is incredibly wise advice.

By coincidence, a female friend also gave me the same perspective (she's the only woman I have been getting advice on this as well as from her husband). After they had split a few years ago, she was initially excited about the prospect of dating again but after a few dates, realized just how much she still loved her husband. They are now back together though not many people knew about their split in the first place. She is urging patience and that it is better for W to figure out what she really wants than for me to coax her back leaving doubts lingering in her mind about other people. I am hoping she can do that without dating.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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Originally Posted By: Anders
Quote:
But The OTHER GOOD NEWS IS'

that it turns out my h and i are really quite well suited for each other. Dating OMs was a great reminder of that.

Don't assume every date or every OM/OW is a great catch AND that it convinces the WAS that a divorce is the answer.


Thank you 25years for sharing the other perspective on dating and the potential positive side to this. This is incredibly wise advice.

By coincidence, a female friend also gave me the same perspective (she's the only woman I have been getting advice on this as well as from her husband). After they had split a few years ago, she was initially excited about the prospect of dating again but after a few dates, realized just how much she still loved her husband. They are now back together though not many people knew about their split in the first place. She is urging patience and that it is better for W to figure out what she really wants than for me to coax her back leaving doubts lingering in her mind about other people.

Coaxing her back won't work in the long run even if it somehow gets her back home initially. The more you challenge her choices, the more you force her to defend them. Don't.

Let her discover this, let her solve the puzzle without you standing over her shoulder telling her where to put the pieces. That is not her "learning" something, that's you controlling or manipulating the outcome. Even if she came back, if she has not learned what SHE NEEDS TO LEARN on her own, you'll be back here in a year or two.

If you were once both in love and bonded, you will need to trust that when she feels safe enough, those memories and feelings will resurface. But she can't "allow" that if she does not feel safe around you. Her fears include the big one that if she returns to you and the marriage, it'll revert and you will revert and she'll be worse off than before. She'll feel fooled and trapped. WORK ON YOU.


I am hoping she can do that without dating.


Why? Why must she NOT date? I know how the ego feels but it's as if you are assuming she'd sleep with OM's and many of us do NOT do that when we first date.

FWIW, I know from experience (from before marriage) that even if she were to sleep with OM, do not assume it'll be the greatest sex she ever had. You need to figure out where your fears are really coming from.

I'm not insecure about my looks in general, okay? I'm confident that men find me attractive and I apologize if that sounds arrogant.

The point is, that even so, I still worry about the stretch marks I have from childbirth. So the idea of another man seeing those without being the father of those kids, well, it would mean I'd either have to be drunk (not likely) or VERY trusting of the OM.

And that takes time. It would take a lot of time for me to trust OM enough to sleep with him. My sisters mostly say the same thing, but I can't speak for all women obviously. I'm just saying you may have to get past this fear of her dating.

If you realize it's your ego talking, and your fears, then ask yourself What are you afraid she'd find if she dated other men?

Men who treat her better? Who will love her more than you?

IF so, you have more work to do than you thought.

Dig deep and see what it is. If it's simply the idea of her kissing another man, then it's just plain old insecure feelings. You know she probably had relationships before she met you. Do those haunt you?


If it's b/c you fear that another man would treat her better or make her feel better about herself, then that is an area for YOU to work on.


The good news is you CAN work on that, regardless of what she is doing/thinking or planning, or how she feels today.

All those things^^^ --the plans, emotions, etc, can change anyhow.

Work on you.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 180
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Anders Offline OP
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Some tough questions I have been mulling over 25:

Quote:
Why? Why must she NOT date? I know how the ego feels but it's as if you are assuming she'd sleep with OM's and many of us do NOT do that when we first date.
That is reassuring to hear on sex. Up to the point of reading your perspective on dating, in my mind, dating implied sex with others, finality and certainty to the end of us. The end of any hope or possibility of reconciliation. And the reason why I have chosen not to date anyone else during this time.

And it is hearing the stories of couples who after reconciling, have struggled with the choices they made in seeing other people, which made the journey back that much harder.

Quote:
If you realize it's your ego talking, and your fears, then ask yourself What are you afraid she'd find if she dated other men? Men who treat her better? Who will love her more than you?

IF so, you have more work to do than you thought.

Dig deep and see what it is. If it's simply the idea of her kissing another man, then it's just plain old insecure feelings. You know she probably had relationships before she met you. Do those haunt you?


Our history is somewhat of a unique one. Up to two years ago, I can say for certain that we had only ever been with each other sexually. There had been no one else for either of us. And the thought of her being physical intimate with another man: Kissing, sex, brings up both physical and emotional feelings: anger, sadness, hopelessness, nausea, feeling winded.

There is a seeming finality to dating/sleeping with others within the context of our relationship. It was something we both treasured and valued, understanding the uniqueness of this bond.

It is the reason I asked for the divorce and went dark after finding out about her EA, and the OM.

There is also a huge cultural aspect from my side of the family. A man whose wife has left, and is openly dating and/or sleeping with other people, and especially so when the marriage is not yet formally dissolved, is the ultimate sign of failure and shame. And this extends to the whole of my family. I failed due to my deficiencies. And by proxy, my family failed in bringing me up properly and are all failures.

Unlike the past EAs/OM, this time she is quite open in the fact that she is looking to date others. And there is no doubt that we would not be here if I had my act together. She did not feel safe emotionally or have that certainty about us (my read). We created such a distance out of our fears, lack of communication, intimacy and trust.

That being said, avoiding humiliating my family is not my objective here. It is to live a life of purpose and love, and ideally with my current wife, sharing in this journey together.

I understand why she is in this place. But it still does not make it any easier for me to process and to come to terms with this.

Quote:
And that takes time. It would take a lot of time for me to trust OM enough to sleep with him. My sisters mostly say the same thing, but I can't speak for all women obviously. I'm just saying you may have to get past this fear of her dating.


You have given me a ray of hope here 25. Even as I write this, she has just sent me another email asking about my first week at the new job.

As I switch gears, I am still figuring out the best way to expand our conversation beyond the 'surface' level topics. My read is that these emails and texts are her way of slowly nudging the door open. But I am worried that I may be moving too slowly.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 180
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Anders Offline OP
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Quote:
...can you commit to a marriage in which you both share a home? IF NOT< then this is a set up for failure.***


I definitely agree with you 25 on this point. The whole divorce ultimatum centred on us living in the same house and her ending the EA, which I handled very badly.

My work transition to this new place has been deliberate as it would allow me the flexibility to work from pretty much anywhere I choose to after the first four months when I have to be here.

This is where I feel stuck and have been thinking over what would be the best course to take. Here is what I have been mulling:

1. Write to her to acknowledge my part in all of this and how much I have hurt her, especially by giving up on us with the divorce ultimatum.

And/or

2. Give her a couple of days and then call to talk about what the best way forward would be.

Or

3. Continue to play it very slow using each interaction to increase her level of comfort and trust. Let her be the one to make the call on making up or moving on.


M:36 W:34
T:9,M:4
Me,WAH:7/2011
My apology:12/2012
Her,WAW:01/2013
ILYBINILWY:4/2013
W's EA:5/2013
Sep:9/2013
2nd EA signs:03/2014
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