Cross country DB with WAS

[Anders]

Previous thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...247#Post2450247

Some early movement. W texted asking if I wanted to talk over the phone.

She apologized for her upbeat tone of voice during our last call. She wanted me to know it was not an easy decision for her but felt that it came across as if she was thrilled with the choice.

And though it is a tough decision for her, she is pretty certain it is done. She said even though there are moments where she feels one way and then switches back, she is certain she is done. This back and forth drove me crazy this past year and a half as I didn't understand the flip flop. However, reading similar WAS patterns here has really helped me to see why this happens.

She wanted to clarify whether I thought we just had an argument (when I asked for a D), or if I meant that we were done. She wanted to know if I truly believed that or if it was something I simply said to MIL when we talked about what has been happening to brush her off. I said we had an argument where I said things I regret and that I did not mean we were done.

She made it clear that she was really convinced we were done and made a point of making sure I really heard her on this. That she thought we were done.

My mind reading started to ring in sensing there was something behind this.

But I resisted the urge to probe and told her 'I can understand where you are coming from'.

She also wanted it to be clear that she was not having an affair when we had the argument but she got the sense that I still thought so. I let her know I appreciated her letting me know but my level of trust with her is very low right now. It could be rebuilt but right now it is very low. I explained that her way of being evasive with questions in the recent past had led to this for me.

I didn't tell her this but I think she has begun a R with someone else.

She seemed to be reading from notes checking off points to cover while we talked. Overall, we were both calm as we talked. She asked if I had any questions. I said the floor was hers and I was here to listen to what she had to say. And that when she was ready, I wanted to hear about how her work celebration went and the visit from her parents.

She jumped right into it which surprised me as she mentioned earlier she had wanted to talk about the D logistics.

Amicable enough of a conversation hearing her excitedly describe it all. She sounded happy to tell me about it. I asked a few follow up questions here and there but for the most part, let her talk. However,after chatting for about half an hour, I had to leave and let her know we had to wrap up the call.I let her know I wanted to hear the rest of the story the next time we talked.

She said she was going on a road trip for a week beginning Saturday. I didn't ask where or with whom. She suggested we talk tomorrow night or when she gets back. We agreed to talk next weekend.

Detaching really helped me even though there were points I really wanted to say what was on my mind. I tried to validate as much as I could.

Trying hard not to over analyze the whole conversation or where this is all going. Taking it one step at a time.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. (Lao-tzu)

[LongRoad06]

Next time she wants to "talk" tell her "not now, I'm about to leave to go somewhere, and don't really have time to discuss this with you at present. Have a great day/afternoon/evening/night!"

Who says it's not a good time to go on a walk? You need to detach before these conversations won't kick you in the guy every time you have them, and to give her some space to figure things out. You also need to go at the least dim. Make her wonder what you are doing. Act as if. Start moving on with your life. She's going to see that, and she's going to have to make some tough decisions in her life based on your actions and her actions. In effect, you are forcing her to walk the path she's on. She's not getting you as a backup plan. You are going to leave her in the dust if she continues on her path as you rekindle the person you are inside.

That's my take on it anyhow

[Anders]

Next time she wants to "talk" tell her "not now, I'm about to leave to go somewhere, and don't really have time to discuss this with you at present. Have a great day/afternoon/evening/night!"

Thanks LongRoad. To clarify, do you mean the next time she wants to talk about the D logistics or just talking in general?

For some context I was dark for a month and half (No contact at all even by phone or email) before we first talked last weekend and then yesterday.

[LongRoad06]

I wouldn't talk D stuff with her at all. This is me though, a vet may chime in. I'd also be less available if you know that's why she's calling. If she wants to talk about her day etc. sure. If she wants to talk about D logistics - eh, you are busy. Don't have time for that right now.

[Anders]

Ah...gotcha. That makes sense and I agree with you.

1. Let her initiate contact
2. Keep the contacts short, light and upbeat
3. D talk comes up, go dim

[Anders]

Journal:

I have been listening to a lot of Wayne Dyer's talks in YouTube. Fantastic insights on letting go, detaching, seeing the bigger picture and the wisdom from even the most painful of situations.

I have been on this DB journey now for almost two years. At the end of March, I was convinced I was done.I was afraid life was passing me by. But the time and space in between made me realize how much I was focused on simply ending the pain. I can't believe how slow I am. It has taken me this long to realize that there are some huge opportunities being presented to help me become the man I want to be and not to just win her back.

The stories on this forum have been inspiring to say the least. Prayer and meditation have brought me an immense sense of peace.

And with that, a renewed intent to not give up. General advice is that you need at least one month for every year you have been together for the DB process. Though it has been two years, I am hitting the reset button as I did a major backslide in March by being over eager with some positive signs. This lead her to withdraw and me to snoop and pursue in a panic.

Seven weeks of going dark and then a couple of relatively positive phone chats last week. Overall, same pattern as most WASs described. She is certain she is done and is moving on. She is sorry about it, has moments of doubt but she is certain about it.

Long distance makes this a bit of a challenge. But for now, I have a plan to observe and journal progress with each interaction and set three month goals to see if we are making progress.

It is also getting tough with friends saying I should call it a day, move on and find the happiness I deserve. On my down days, I lap that up. But all in all, I'm still on the path.

Overall, I am focusing on one of my fixings: patience. One thing I was always known for and which I thought was one of my strengths. But in the last year, I reflect on a few key moments where we were so close but where I pushed too soon for reconciliation.

Some of you are going through very painful situations but your strength and words of encouragement, even in the midst of your situation, is amazing. Thank you for that.

Three of my lifesaver phrases right how, especially in those moments when I just feel like giving up:

1. Thank you: when I just can't seem to stop the negative thoughts.
2. Believe none of what they say and only half of what they do.
3. Let go and let God.

I will keep on posting. As time is my best bud, I will write more about my GAL progress and provide updates on my Db process as things slowly progress.

[Anders]

We were to talk yesterday but NC from W. I am staying dim for now and letting her initiate contact.

I backslid on FB. I have not been checking or using this much since I began DBing but on Thursday, my fears got the better of me.

The roadtrip and who she was with was eating at me and I finally caved. Her FB shows that she is on the trip with a group which includes suspected EA OM.

I then saw photos of her during the April-May NC period. At various parties and events with EA OM, and looked like she was having a blast in all. Dressed up, happy and smiling.

Then I saw one where she did not have her ring on.

It hurt really bad.

Snooping does no good and I am dealing with the consequences of it the last couple of days. Feeling off balance and wondering just where this is going.

[Anders]

I have been reading "The Passion Trap: Where Is Your Relationship Going?" this past week. Good book which has really helped me understand the pursue-distancer dynamics in relationships.

I was always the pursuer from the start, and especially so for most of 2013 when in the throes of trying to reconcile our M. In retrospect, I really did prolong our timeline with moments of panic and being emotionally reactive.

The exception was during my WAS phase when I had completely given up hope that W loved me. Not surprisingly, she became the pursuer which only made me retreat further away. In my case, there was no OW/OP. Just an intense desire to be left alone and eventually, a fantasy of just going away.

You would think that having being a WAS myself that I had a good understanding of what W has and is going through right now.

However, it is only after spending time on this forum that the WAS concept became very clear for me. That I finally understood what I was going through and what W is going through.

Something for me to really reflect on.

[Anders]

I posted this in response to a question posed to me on another thread.

It gives some insight into what led me to become a WAH a few years ago and some of the things I discovered I still have to work on myself:

--
Post 1: For our sit. the 'issues' began with complaints I was not doing enough to help with the housework. Within a a few months, I was pretty much doing all of it but the still got the same complaint. We even went to MC which resulted in...a detailed sheet outlining what to clean!

Then, a new complaint began. I was not cleaning things the right way...

My point is that there was a much bigger underlying issue that I sensed but could not put my finger on. It took IC and coaching for me to realize how common this pattern is in marriages. In my case, I was a pleaser, not one to take initiative in our M and deferred everything to my W.

And, in MC's opinion and my own, that the nagging about cleaning was actually her way of trying to reach out to me and signalling that we were drifting apart. And, a way of testing if I could stick up for myself and to her. The irony is her complaints confused me and causing me to withdraw, which caused her to push more, with a downward spiral.
--
Post 2 in response to a request for more details:
In essence, I was very immature about relationships, in my understanding of what my wife wanted and what she was feeling.

I was so afraid of loosing her that I eventually would do anything to avoid conflict. I mistakenly thought that if I let her make the decisions, it would show her how considerate and loving I was being. I was the classic Mr. Nice Guy (A good book that explains this in detail is :"No More Mr. Nice Guy").

She only seemed to get more hostile. At the time, I was completely baffled. I didn't understand what was happening. I kept saying 'I am so confused right now. I am doing everything you are asking me to (cleaning house and running errands) but it does not seem to make a difference to you.'

The common issue she brought up was that she felt she was doing everything on her own and that she needed a real partner. The more she would 'attack me', the more I would withdraw, becoming very resentful of her.

Communication became very bad. I felt like she was not able to really articulate what was going wrong and suggested MC. We stopped after a few sessions and eventually I became a WAH with an overwhelming need to just get some space.

The deferring habit hit home again a few months ago and really woke me up as to how passive I had become in our M. After nearly a year, we had been slowly piecing and we took a walk through town. She asked me where we should go for coffee, and without thinking, I said "Wherever you want to go, doesn't matter to me."

She blew up at this and told me she just wanted me to make decisions.

It took a long time, and much later after the fact, for me to realize that I was not being emotionally available and I lacked decisiveness in our relationship. In other words, I was not being the man she needed me to be. The husband she thought I was. I was behaving like a kid. She was tired of being my mother.
--

[Anders]

So, communication was a major factor in our R issues. Now, with the long distance & the BD situation, communication is very sparse to say the least.

I have been dim since our last phone chat a week and a half ago which she initiated. We were to talk about the D process. We ended up talking a bit about our last fight, and then her updating me on her life. We were to talk a few days ago but neither of us has reached out. My current stance is to let her be the one to initiate any contact. This is a 180 for me as I have mainly been the one to initiate contact.

My dilemma is we need to discuss finances. But that naturally leads to the D process talk and, re-establishes the pattern of me initiating contact.

Finances was one of our specific communication issues. I always brought up our budget as an issue to discuss and she would often deflect and defer the talks.

With the long distance, my focus with any conversations we may have is to keep it positive. The long term goal of slowly filling up her love and trust tank.

I feel like I am walking on a tight rope here. Thoughts?