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#2447203 04/21/14 03:33 PM
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we are meeting with a local counselor (who mostly uses Gottman's therapy ideas). W said in the last session that she has noticed my changes, but says they don't seem "genuine". I think even the C was a bit exasperated, and asked "what would genuine look like?". She couldn't say.

C has advised in several sessions now that we need to spend some 1-1 time together outside of his office, and we all agreed at this point it should be W that initiates this. Also, if you're into the 5 Love Languages, she is Quality Time. The problem is - she won't/hasn't scheduled any. I am Physical Touch, and she has also said she doesn't want me to be affectionate.

To back up, it was W who scheduled the local counselor, and we are not separated, but she said on 3/15/14 that she wanted D and had talked to a lawyer. I don't think anything has progressed there, as we are going to C.

So, she's going to MC with me, but really won't do any of the things the C has suggested, numerous times. Doesn't want me to initiate time together, touch, saying of ILY, nothing. Should I just wait it out some more and let the MC handle it? I'm really getting impatient and wonder why we're there. Yes, back to DB, I should be able to turn this thing around by myself, I guess, but we ARE both there together getting Gottman-style MC.

One of the things I wonder about....they say that "that which gets rewarded gets repeated", about a lot of things. If she can just go on and do nothing on her end to mend things, and never get called on it, doesn't that just confirm that that's ok for her to do?

As for my "not genuine" changes - which have been better communication, and not getting my chores done around the house. I've done a 180 on these, for the most part, though not all communication (what little we have) is always positive - I am human after all. What can I do, just keep SHOWING my changes?

Thoughts? advice?

Thanks!

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Puffy,

I'm sorry you find yourself here. WAS always say it's too little too late, so that is why she is doubting your changes. In regards to the MC, eh, in theory it sounds like a good thing. However, when the WAS is done, they frequently use this opportunity as a chance to seek validation from an outsider that "yes, you should leave the marriage."

You will find that everyone here wants to save their M. However, you need to make sure the changes are for you and that you can stick with them whether you are with your W or not. Keep focusing on you and making changes that you want to make.



3 kids
BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. )
Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style
D final 9-9-14
"Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
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Yes, W did seem, and still seems somewhat "done". But she's not getting validation from the C, and she seems to like and respect him, and not hesitate to schedule future sessions. I take this as a good sign, and hope that she will "buy in" the more we continue to go. Are you saying that done is done, and there's no hope? I often think this, but I'm ever the optimist.

Yes, I continue to work on myself and try to accept that I can't control the R, what will happen will happen, but that's really hard. D would not be good for her or the kids. The best, and even easiest, thing would be to work to restore the M/R. Why does it have to be so hard? Just do it! Arrrgh.

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Were the two complaints (too much time on your hobbies and not getting your chores completed in a timely manner) the only thing your W could come up with? That caused her to feel "done"?

Let me ask some more questions. How long have you been together? What are your ages? How many kids and their ages?

Have you noticed anything different or unusual about your W? New hair style/color, dressing differently, staying on her cell/computer excessively, staying out more, seems preoccupied?

You said you had gotten the SSM book several years ago. Did things ever change for the better afterwards?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks Sandi, for your input. Yes, in C (I recorded the sessions), that was it, in addition to "poor communication" - we have bickered for years. Rarely to the point of raised voices, but nonetheless. Those are the big 3.

Been together since 1989 (college, broke up a few times in college and once afterward. I "cheated" (no sex) once before we were engaged. I am 44, she is 43. 3 girls, 13,11,9.

Different/unusual....hmmm. About 1.5 years ago she started reading crappy romance novels on her kindle, constantly. Is always on Goodreads, always looking for the next thing to read. Initially I thought what the heck, I don't care where she gets her appetite if she brings it home. That worked, once only, after reading 50 Shades. Got a tattoo summer of 2012, didn't consult me. Def seems preoccupied.

I sent a guy-friend a text after she laid D on me, searching in my mind for answers. His wife is one of her BF. I mentioned in it that I thought she was perhaps depressed, or at least unfulfilled in life (not working, kids are all in school now). Well, he mentioned that to the BF, and BF mentioned it to W, and then she got on my ipad and read it. Had to enter my passcode to get into it - I didn't know she knew it. Well, it blew up royally, I first got wind when her Mother called me at work -
"why are you telling everyone she's crazy, etc....". Not what I said at all. Anyway, we are still suffering from that. My point was, if someone I love, and who is (still) family, is (I think) depressed, should I NOT mention that to anyone?? W says she felt totally defamed from that.

Do you think there some MLC going on, Sandi?

I did read SSM years ago, but honestly, I've read so much from so many dif sources I can't say if I implemented anything.

Your insight is highly valued and appreciated here - mucho thanks!

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It just seems it should be more complex than the reasons she gave. A mother of three kids suddenly announcing she wants a D? Does she have some great job that she doesn't need to worry about finances?

That book, 50 Shades, has cropped up several times here on the board. Other men have stated how their W's had similar reactions. I tried to download it to see what all the hype was about, but couldn't get through the first chapter. They must have seen more than I did.

However, I went through several years of reading romantic novels. I know it doesn't have the same effect on all women, but if a woman is in an unfulfilled MR......especially sexually, I believe it is possible to have what is called imaginary affair. There is the physical affair (PA)and emotional affair (EA) and then you can have one that is strictly out of your imagine. It is fantasizing about the hero in the book (or movie) to extremes. I suppose it could be a real life person as well. But the books and/or movies feed the fantasy. I think for me it had very much the same effect as if there was a third party in our R. My H couldn't live up to the hero in the books I read and I was giving them more attention than I was giving him. In time, there was a distance between us that only grew worse. I eventually had an EA with a real person.

This may sound really crazy to sane people. I never told anyone b/c I was afraid they would put me away in the loony bins. But after reading and observing over the years, I found out I wasn't the only one. I think it can certainly have an effect. Maybe not to that extreme in every case, but something seems to be there, nonetheless.

I would not try to put a label or diagnosis on her right now, until you find out more. The WAW and MLC is very similar in outward appearances and even actions. She might be in some sort of crises and she thinks she will find happiness somewhere other than through her M with you. Many times a spouse doesn't know what they want or what it takes to make them happy....but they will blame the other S for making them unhappy. They begin to identify you as the source of everything that is wrong in life.

I assume since you read the SSM book several years ago that was a reason for buying it. If the problem is still in the bedroom, I suggest you work on being as attractive as possible outside of the bedroom. Spruce up the outside of your body, and really work on the inner attractiveness, as well. When women aren't interested in having more sex with their H, that is the first thing I wonder about.....has the attraction been lost.

Do some soul searching and see how much you've changed from the man you use to be. You may not be able to recapture your college days again, but if you work hard enough I bet you can find most of that guy she fell in love with.

Set personal goals. That is important. Make them about "you".

It's a start.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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thanks Sandi! I'm in pretty decent shape physically, but hadn't been working out for a year or so until the BOMB - I've been in the gym almost every day since! Bombing occured 3/13/14. I look good enough that I don't fear someone else not wanting me if we get a D.

I think the lack of attraction could be caused by the bickering. She holds grudges, then doesn't want to be with me because she's still dwelling on that. I have messed up a few times in the past, after being fed up with being turned down for sex. One time I mentioned an Open Marriage, but have never really wanted one. But my LL is Physical Touch, I need it, and not just sex. Another time, after repeatedly being turned down over the course of several weeks, I said "fine, I'm never going to ask for it again". She apparently really took this personally, though she knows I desire her sexually, a lot.

you wrote "It just seems it should be more complex than the reasons she gave. A mother of three kids suddenly announcing she wants a D? Does she have some great job that she doesn't need to worry about finances? ". I agree, that's why I've wondered about depression, or at least lack of fulfillment. She has no job, but gets a monthly annuity payment for life. But that's not enough to have her live comfortably without me. Perhaps she feels like that with a little child support? I dunno. However, I don't really want her to stay in the M only for, or even primarily for, financial reasons.

I don't think she's thought it thru at all, and this is a mother who is 100% about her kids. Shared custody would mean I have them, and she doesn't, about half the time.

More thoughts?

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Originally Posted By: Puffy
thanks Sandi! I'm in pretty decent shape physically, but hadn't been working out for a year or so until the BOMB - I've been in the gym almost every day since!


Stick with it. Your W won't give a rip, but it'll make you feel better about yourself and right now that's what you need more than anything else.

Quote:
I think the lack of attraction could be caused by the bickering. She holds grudges, then doesn't want to be with me because she's still dwelling on that. I have messed up a few times in the past, after being fed up with being turned down for sex. One time I mentioned an Open Marriage, but have never really wanted one. But my LL is Physical Touch, I need it, and not just sex. Another time, after repeatedly being turned down over the course of several weeks, I said "fine, I'm never going to ask for it again". She apparently really took this personally, though she knows I desire her sexually, a lot.


Wow, sounds like you have some pretty serious passive/ aggressive tendencies. I think you're seeing this as her taking that last comment personally when she is probably reacting to your whole passive/ aggressive nature.

Quote:
you wrote "It just seems it should be more complex than the reasons she gave. A mother of three kids suddenly announcing she wants a D? Does she have some great job that she doesn't need to worry about finances? ". I agree, that's why I've wondered about depression, or at least lack of fulfillment.


There is only one thing you can work on- YOU. Quit trying to diagnose her, it just takes your focus off of YOU and YOUR problems and makes the assumption that everything happened because she is "sick". If you don't change she will NEVER come back. Changing is the most important part of DB'ing, without it you don't grow and your spouse doesn't ever look back. She doesn't want to go back to the same old M. You have to show her a new you and entice her into a NEW marriage with the new you.

Quote:
I don't think she's thought it thru at all, and this is a mother who is 100% about her kids. Shared custody would mean I have them, and she doesn't, about half the time.


She will make whatever sacrifices she feels she needs to make to get out of what she perceives as a terrible marriage. Chances are slim that she will stay for the kids' sake.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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thanks AnotherStander, all great thoughts and I need to hear them.

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Have either of you ever been in an A?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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