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#2440329 03/24/14 05:02 AM
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I was here in late 2005/early 2006. My H left me when I was 2 months pregnant. After reading DB and religiously practicing its techniques, he was back when I was 5/6 months pregnant. With a mistress who was 2 months pregnant.

I didn't push therapy; that was my fault. Though we talked about the A, I didn't push for more details than I felt I could handle. And then I turned into the loyal pit-bull lover I am, standing beside my man and fighting, right alongside him.

Though we talked about the breakdown of our marriage, we never really delved into it. I didn't get answers I should have pushed for, for the well-being of our future together.

And we did ourselves a huge disservice. Because here we are again ...

5 days after my 10th wedding anniversary - and after my usually-loving, attentive, selfless H showered me with gifts and love - he said something disrespectful to me. He's been SO respectful toward me since the incident in 2005 that that's all it took for me to know he was seeing someone else ... again.

So I confronted him, without a shred of evidence at the time. And he spilled.

That was Feb. 19. Late at night.

He, of course, lied and said the relationship was "text-only." I didn't take him for his word, because I'm a seasoned pro at this point, but I quickly opened my "DB toolbox" that was still so familiar from 2005. He admitted he was intrigued by her and wanted to get to know her better. Almost like a robot, I told him that to work on our marriage ... again ... he'd need to cut off communication with her and that I knew how hard that would be for him. I validated his feelings for the OW - who is married herself - and told him I would have patience through the grieving period of losing this "new love." I even told him I knew how it felt to have to mourn the loss of a love.

The following day, he turned ugly, just like he did in 2005, justifying his behavior by blaming me and saying he'd been miserable for 10 years.

The kids and I (I have two Ds, 16 and 17, from a previous relationship, and H and I share a S7 and D2) packed up and went to my sister's for a few days until things cooled down a little.

I let H know the day I was coming home. He met us here, and he played with the kids then met me outside for a beer. I told him that while I was away, I had sent e-mails out to former colleagues (I was wildly successful in my field for 10 years before having my S and becoming a SAHM), and that I had a freelance job offer within 10 minutes of sending the e-mail. As soon as I said that, H grew almost crazed. He couldn't keep his hands off me. I asked him what the heck had come over him, and he said he didn't know. We made love that night, and it was amazing (as usual for us).

The next night, I knew I needed to know the extent of his relationship with OW and that H wasn't being honest. So I did what I needed to do. Come to find out, the relationship had turned physical (which I was smart enough to assume to begin with). They'd known each other for all of 2.5 months. And they're already telling each other how much they love each other and sending photos of their (our) children to one another.

Because I have "experience" in this (ok, ok, so I did good in some ways but screwed the pooch in others), I didn't beg, plead or go through wedding photos or tell my husband how much I adore him. I just beat the crap out of his phone with a meat tenderizer ... but only after I had sent myself screenshots of several texts from just the past few days between the two lovers.

My H, still thinking I was fooled by his promises that it was a "text-only relationship," was so confused ... until I picked up my own phone and started reading the texts between them. In the most recent one, they talked about having sex in MY bed. That's how vulgar their texts were. It was, like, porn-quality texts. Disgusting. Gives me nightmares.

My H met her at a grocery store, where she works. He asked for her phone number. He begged me not to approach her husband AFTER I called the grocery store and talked to her manager, asking about the store's policy on employees handing out phone numbers to shoppers ... especially MARRIED shoppers.

Yeah. I took a hard-nosed approach this time, unlike in 2005 when I was pregnant and weak and vulnerable. And it's been a longggggg month.

H stayed here for 2 weeks after I found out the details about the A. He turned in his burn phone, with me at the phone store with him, and put himself back on the family plan, which is in my name. He told me I could check into his activities any time I wanted to. At this time, he still admitted he thought of OW but said he understood my demand that as long as he lived in the same house with me, he wouldn't disrespect me by continuing to text her.

(I should add: My H is the most amazing, hands-on, loving, gentle, attentive father in the world. He's usually the same kind of H. But he has SNAPPED ... twice now ... and becomes almost demonic. Like, seriously ... infatuated with pentagrams and 666 and flames in hell, etc. when he snaps like this, which he's done twice.)

After he turned his phone in, we stayed home together, even sleeping in the same bed, for about 2 weeks. We took the kids on a trip a few hours away, and while things were awkward ... and he acknowledged he was "weighing his options" where S/D was concerned ... we made it through.

The following day, though, one of my teenage girls said something that flipped his switch (he still likes to think of himself as the victim, apparently). An hour later, the little kids, H and I were all lying on the couch, watching a movie. I said SOMETHING that ripped into him (and I WISH I remembered what I said, but I don't). He popped up and yelled, "Because I don't want to f***in BE with you anymore!!!" S7, clearly shaken, jumped into my lap and started crying. My chin was on the, uh, couch. H turned to S7 and said, "What do you want me to do, buddy? I can stay here, but it'd take a long time for me to learn to love your momma again."

And I snapped. All my "tools" flew out the window. I kicked him out. For that brief second, I knew I had to teach my son, who is home alllll the time bc I homeschool him, how a woman deserves to be treated. I would not allow the man who has showed me SO much respect for as long as our son has been alive to disrespect me like that. (It was S7 I was pregnant with the first time H left me). And I realized, when my H snapped, that CLEARLY he had not ended his A as he told me he had.

Since he left on March 3, things have been a complete roller coaster. Again. At first, he wouldn't have anything to do with me. Then he couldn't keep his hands off me. He's hot and cold.

And then the BIG day: I found out, 5 days after he left, he had purchased a hotel room. 2 adults. King-size bed. So I bought flowers and a card and gave them to the folks at check-in for the "happy couple." Told the check-in folks I was a matchmaker and had hooked the two of them up and this was their first night together as a couple, so I wanted to leave them a gift of good cheer.

And then, knowing OW was occupied with H for the night, I paid a visit to OW's H. I had known about the A for 2.5 weeks and had respected my H's wishes that I leave OW's H out of it ... but I went back on that once it was clear they intended to continue the A. I'm a SAHM. 4 children. My whole world has crumbled to its foundation. Why should SHE be given a free pass to keep her M ... with one D and a S from a previous marriage ... and get my H on the side?

Her H was, strangely, gentle and calm. Naive. But he e-mailed me a couple times and finally told me not to contact him anymore bc he was going to try to repair his M. He's out of work right now, and she's the breadwinner of the family. He's in school, so I think he's willing to let his wife do whatever until he's out of school in December.

OW and H are still texting. I only know bc my son, during visitation with his dad, plays on his dad's phone and sees the texts coming in. I try to tell him that mommy doesn't need or want to know what daddy's up to - all he needs to know is that, no matter what's going on, mommy and daddy love him SO much and we'll ALL be okay - but he still sees the texts and comes home telling me about "Daddy's girlfriend texting."

I have immediately thrown myself into the "DB rules." Chopped my hair off. I'm throwing mascara on and earrings in daily. Painting my nails. Running again. Feeling more self-confident than I have in years. Fortunately (or unfortunately), threats are knocking on my door. And I know there are "easy fixes" on standby to help me emotionally - and quickly - "get over" a H who has treated me so incredibly poorly ... twice.

I'm in a whirlwind. Out of control with no safety net. I don't know which end is up. I don't know if I want this M or if it's a lost cause. He's done this TWICE now. I believe in second chances. But I've never been challenged with giving 3rd or 4th chances. Don't get me wrong: I love my H DEARLY. I adore him. I have gone to hell and back for and with him already. And, Lord knows, I'd be willing to do it again ... but THIS time with professional help to pinpoint the crack that's in our marriage that clearly I'm not perceptive enough to identify on my own.

But he's not at a place where he wants to completely sever his A. And apparently she's secretly still talking to H even while telling HER H that she's "working on the M." My H says she's "taking things slowly" because she saw how H left me. And H says, "I told her not to leave like I did." He also says, "We might hook up down the road."

But now, H is starting to say things to me that make me think he's "coming around." Things like, "I know I royally screwed up," and, when I thank him for continuing to provide for the kids and me: "It's the least I could do for everything I've done." He came over tonight to work on my car. Then had a friend (the ones he's living with, who's a mutual friend) come over to help him move more of his garage things out.

But he's telling all his friends and family he's done. He was miserable for 10 years.

He vacillates between telling ME I'm amazing (an amazing mom, easy on the eyes and fun to have sex with are among his top compliments ... and he says I'm every man's DREAM and he has NO idea why he doesn't "want that anymore") and telling me he's been miserable living with me for 10 years.

He thinks I'm controlling. Same complaint as last time. And when he came home last time, he said: "I feel miserable when I feel you're controlling me, but I've learned it's not control .... it's that you want to protect me from making stupid decisions that eventually hurt me."

So here I am again. Stronger this time. MUCH stronger. (Maybe TOO strong?) Less vulnerable. Less weak. But still in love with a man who has now hurt me - TWICE.

I'll take my responsibility in the breakdown. H works 2 jobs. I'm home ALLLLLL day with two kids and afternoons with all 4 kids. I even slept with the babies because H snores so loud. H and I were working on getting the kids in their own rooms when all this went down. The 2 weeks after I found out about the A but only knew it as a text-only A, we had put the kids in their rooms and slept together. And we made love almost every night.

And then he disrespected me in front of our S7, and I made that split-second decision.

I don't know if this M is worth my time and effort again. I love him so much that I think I could possibly work to repair what we never repaired before. I know my life would be "easier," financially, with him in it. I was a single mom of 2 when I met him in 2002. Now I'll be a single mom of 4. And, for now, I have no income besides what he's kind enough to provide. And he's providing, working his first 40 hours a week and handing me his paychecks. He's keeping income from his second job - almost full-time - for himself. And I am validating him and telling him how appreciative I am that he continues to provide for the kids and me that way during these times ... because THAT is pretty selfless of him (and it's also how my H USUALLY is).

I just don't know if his cheating is a result of something that has been broken in our M since before he did it the first time (and we never fixed it) ... or if it's a character-flaw.

My friends and family are astonished because he seems to be so fixated on me all the time. My friends say they look up to our relationship so much because we still seem madly in love, 10 years after being married. And we are. We still slip away from the house to have sex ... in the back of a car, when we have to, or in his barn when the kids are occupied with relatives inside. Or on the couch after all the kids are asleep at night.

There are A LOT more details. But this is enough to digest for now, especially because the new format apparently makes it more difficult for posts from "new" people to show up.

I'd value any input and would be happy to divulge further information or answer questions. And I thank you in advance for the backbone I know you will provide in the days and weeks ... and months ... ahead.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Train #2440410 03/24/14 04:26 PM
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Wow. I'm speechless.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Sigh. Yeah. I know, Starsky.

I'm hardly ever stumped. I'm usually the one people approach for "words of wisdom."

I mean, at THIS point, I have no real choices except to continue focusing on the kids and me. I've been GAL; I literally almost felt relieved immediately after the B, when people started jumping in to help with the kids, freeing me to leave the house a little again. So my happiness in GAL is actually quite genuine.

I swore, when all this came out, that my H has a mental disorder. His brother is diagnosed bipolar, so I became convinced that's what's afflicting H, too. But the more I read, the more I see that EVERY LBS thinks their spouse is crazy. Lol. And, well, maybe they are.

I just hate to have so many dangling strings. So many unanswered questions.

He keeps stopping by here during his lunch break to move more things out of his garage. Last week, he seemed more "approachable," kinder. He would walk into our home. It was awkward, yes. But we muddled through that for the kids' sake, I guess. Yesterday when he picked up/dropped off the kids? Today at lunch? Not so much. He stayed outside today even after he was finished packing.

I asked him if he wanted lunch, and he accepted. He brushed up against me on the way inside, but I'm not sure if that was intentional or not. He's done it intentionally before, and this time I couldn't tell. I don't even know if I care, honestly. He even ate lunch outside with D2.

He has a hard time looking me in my eyes, which I guess I understand. Our teenage girls are RAGING mad and overwhelmingly sad. They were abandoned as babies by their biological dad, so this has set some pretty negative feelings in motion. They're old enough to understand how deep the betrayal to their mom is, too.

He has said, "I'm sorry." But that was early on after the B. I don't think he's sorry for the A; I think the proof is in the pudding on that, and he's obviously still talking to OW and considering having a future with her in it. I think he's just sorry he was caught. They were apparently most recently texting about OW's D11 being upset because HER daddy wouldn't be coming home that night. Which I DID find a little curious, if I'm being honest.

The fact that my H is thinking of his future with OW in it - and that he refuses to end the A and now justifies it because we are physically S - is what hurts most. I know love, in a relationship, is never enough. But we still loved each other. In 2005, his conscience made him leave before things got crazy-physical with OW. This time, he carried on the A for 2 months - 1 month hot-and-heavy - all while coming home and telling me ILY, making things for me, buying things for me, etc. He and OW were even texting about how she needed to "be careful" because she needed to make her M last for her D. Then, she'd say she might leave him sooner than was planned. They were hot-and-heavy for ONE MONTH and already making plans to be together.

There's a part of me that wishes I would have never said anything to OW's H and just let the relationship run its course and die. My actions just prolonged the natural course of things. Ugh.

Like I said, I don't know if he has a personality disorder or if he just deserves an Oscar. I DO know that he's said even though he beat the crap out of himself every time he went to see OW, "somehow I went through with it anyway. It's done now, no turning back." It's almost like he doesn't just set fire to a bridge that would lead him back home, he lights it up with dynamite. He even said in 2005 that he knew all along, even while we were S for 4 months, that he'd want to come home. I think that's probably a thought that his entered his mind this time, too. But it's almost like he is making SURE he leaves no semblance of a bridge to cross back over even if he eventually wants to. He has asked me: "What do I have to do to make you not give a f--- about me anymore? I'm a loser in your eyes - get rid of me!" I just calmly validate, reminding him that his health and happiness is of paramount importance to me because he's, at the very least, the father of my children.

I KNOW I need to be less focused on him and more on myself. But right now, I'm journaling and laying the groundwork for anyone who might see and have any words of wisdom to share. smile


M: 40 H: 44
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S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
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I should also mention, just for background, that I did go see a L (a friend) about 1.5 weeks ago. He told me to "hurry up and wait" and do nothing to tick-off H in the meantime because the amount of support he's paying now is more than the courts would order if I pursue S.

Where I live, we have a mandatory 12-month S before D. H was anxious to help with the paperwork for S/D. But he hasn't mentioned my L visit, or asked about it, since.

He tends to lose his cool if I indicate that OW is probably not finished hearing from me yet. So I've dropped saying anything to him about that completely. I just don't mention her, or the A, at all right now. I just slap on my mascara, my earrings, some figure-enhancing clothes (lol) and a big ol' fat smile. Occasionally, I even chuckle and joke when he's around. Ya know, just having the time of my life ...

Ugh.

I'm trying not to rock the boat while I also detach, GAL and watch for signs of him possibly coming around ... just in case that eventually makes a crap to me; right now, my give-a-crap meter is gettin' kind of low. The only thing I have left for him is love.

Do I work on this M? Do I cut my losses and go? I'm only 36. I've only been out of work for 7.5 years. If I work on the M and H eventually comes around - and IF we'd be willing for the hard work that fixing this mangled mess would entail - what happens if he does it again in 10 years? Then, I'm 46. I will have been out of work for 18 years. The positive side to that scenario is that my little kids would be older, too. My S would be graduated. My D would be a teenager.

I'm wayyyyy projecting and overthinking this now. Clearly.

This is a crappy place to be in.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Sep 2011
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Train,

Anyone can cheat. Some folks do it once, some never, some are serial cheaters.
If we take the "an affair is a symptom of other M problems" road, what would you say were the breakdowns in your M? Clearly, undivided attention stands out (your H working two jobs would negate the needed time together). What else?

You're a DB veteran, so that's good news. I would also recommend "His Needs, Her Needs" for you to read. It helps spell out where "love" comes from, and what causes it to come and go in a M. It definitely gave me a roadmap back into a better R with my W.

It sounds to me like your H is trying his best to cake-eat. In his experience, he can have his fun and you will be right there when the A blows up- just like last time. Clearly you two didn't learn from the first A, so this time will have to be different. I think your tough love approach is excellent in this case. He must see that the safety net that he thought was under him, isn't this time. It sounds like you've got it right-if he wants back in the M it's either under the conditions for a great M, or none at all.

It's always good to hear a strong (dare I say "ballsy") female voice on these forums.

-hs

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HopefulStill, thank you. Seriously. Thanks.

I'll take "ballsy." Lol!

I have two other posts that haven't posted yet, so forgive me if I repeat anything; I forget all I wrote in the last ones.

I think, first, H and I got into a pattern of making our M all about our kids, and we would squeeze in time for US just once a week, if that. Most times, when we got together, we talked only about work and kids. (What else is there to talk about, really?!??) We're both very attentive parents, both doting, etc. I'm more a disciplinarian (I assume you already figured - ha). With me being a SAHM and homeschooling my S, soooo much of my life revolves around the kids.

He picked up the second job in September. So we haven't seen much of him since then. (BTW, when he first took the 2nd job, it was supposed to be only 2 nights a week and Saturdays. He started going 4-5 nights a week and Saturday because they appreciate him sooo much and applaud how "innovative" he is. This will be important to remember a little later in what I post.) But when he's home, he's usually spending his time building Legos with S7 or playing in the dollhouse with our D2.

I also think the same problems linger from last time. My self-esteem is generally pretty good. I mean, it has taken a little hit with me feeling like a couch potato all the time as a SAHM. But I throw a workout in a time or three a week to make myself feel a little better. I'm a pretty confident person by-nature, though. Not overly confident. I just know what makes me good and decent and lovable. That's all.

My H's self-esteem is dirt poor. He constantly needs accolades and praise. He's definitely a "words of affirmation" guy.

I TRY. I really do. Even though it feels so unnatural for me.

But, for instance, just before the A was exposed, we exchanged words over his old bike-riding trophies. I think trophies are HIDEOUS and dust-collectors. The gold color - and the ugly primary-colored foil crap on them - irks the snot out of me. And they're from, like, AGES ago. He is constantly putting them in the most obvious places. I won awards for my work at my job. He keeps putting my awards up on a wall in our office. And I keep taking them down. They're 10 years old! I don't need a constant reminder of my past successes in life; I carry those in my heart. But he's desperate for attention and praise. He's proud of himself for things he did 20 freaking years ago. So he wants his trophies on display for allllll the world to see.

Looking back, the spat over the trophies is stupid and trivial. I get it. I should have worked with him on that instead of telling him his hideous years-old trophies would be better suited in his garage, where he spends much of his time working on bikes, cars etc. But that might give you a real-life example of how we interact when we disagree ... and probably one of the main ways we're different ... and probably one of the main reasons our M breaks down.

He needs to work on his self-esteem. I need to work on complimenting him more and truly taking time to HEAR what he's saying and where he's coming from. He needs to step up some, and I need to step BACK some.

That's another thing: I'm a talker. I hash things out right when they start to bother me. That's how I was raised. His family is different. They're non-confrontational. Dad wears the belt and Mom keeps her mouth shut. My "ballsy-ness" is one thing my H says he LOVES about me. (Until he leaves; THEN, he hates that about me.) But sometimes I think it makes him feel like less of a man to have a W who is confident and "ballsy." And I should keep that in mind, too, and let him lead once in a while. It would take great faith for me to do that, especially when he doesn't have the best track-record of making great decisions. But that's something I could do. Maybe having that "lead" would help him make better decisions eventually. I dunno.

He keeps stopping by the house to move more things out; he came by at lunch today and - in case I didn't mention this in an earlier post - I offered to warm up leftovers for lunch. He hesitated, then accepted. He stayed outside and ate outside, then thanked me when he brought his plate back in. Some days, he seems comfortable. Other days he avoids me. Typical for a WAS. I'm the water and just let it roll off my back no matter WHO he's being at any given moment.

Just a few weeks ago, he was here at lunch and ate with the kids and me. He got up and gave me a one-armed hug, then started massaging my neck and kissed my cheek. That was the first time he touched me since he left. Then, I mentioned something sarcastic about OW a day or two later, and he lashed out. He thinks I'm "going after her," and that pushes his buttons - bad. So I immediately decided I'd never mention anything about her with sarcasm again. He's been nicer since I have been more tight-lipped. But he also hasn't touched me since. He barely looks me in my eyes. He said I am being a "sarcastic b!tch" and that I need to stop going after OW. And he said he doesn't want to send me "mixed signals."

I think he *IS* a mixed signal.

This roller coaster is making me a little nauseous. And the ride has just started. Ugh.

Okay, cake-eating is a new term for me. What is it? If I'm assuming properly, it's a person who wants his cake and to eat it, too? Now to ME, that would mean that he's dipping a little into both pools, yes? I can't say he's doing that so much. He really does avoid me like the plague right now when he's here. And he's only here out of necessity, to move more things. Or to pick up/drop off the kids.

I don't want to encourage this "cake-eating." Because even though cake-eating SOUNDS good, I'm thinking - based on context clues - it's not a good thing in this case. wink I'm on the fence about asking him if he'd like lunch the few times he pops in here. On the one hand, that could come across as me pursuing and letting him "cake-eat." On the other hand, it's a gesture of kindness I can give during these otherwise rough, stressful times. And considering he's still giving me both of his main-job paychecks, offering him leftovers is probably the least I can do. Lol.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Mar 2014
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I know I am inundating this thread with information right now, but while I'm still in moderation mode - and while I'm thinking of things - I'm just going to keep truckin' ...

I haven't exactly gone dark with H. But I barely text him. When I do, it's usually about the kids, or it's something I know he'll find interesting or amusing (but that's maybe once or twice a week). As I've explained (likely ad nauseam), I'm rather upbeat when he stops by here.

He hasn't mentioned S or D since he knew I had my L appt. I'm thinking I already mentioned that.

But here's the rub:

I REALLY don't have the desire to pursue him or to talk about the R. At all. I don't want to. In fact, he told me a couple weeks ago that he's been "writing about his last 10 years" and would like to give me a copy so I can better understand his decision to leave. First, he's not a writer, so that's already weird. I politely, but firmly, told him a big fat "no thanks." It hadn't even been a week since I busted him and OW planning a rendezvous at the hotel. I don't believe enough time and distance separates his affair (duh ... it's ongoing) and any epiphany he may think he's had over why he's supposedly been miserable in our M for 10 years. And that's what I told him.

Am I curious? Yeah. But do I think it would help me to read his diarrhea? Not one iota. So, yeah. No, thank you.

Here's what I *am* curious about, though:

Though I DID give H the option of staying here at first and working on the M - if AND ONLY IF he ended his A - I am the one who has pursued the S/D. I am the one who filled out the paperwork and met with a L. I'm the one who took the initial steps to end this M. I told him, a few weeks after I initiated it, that I had half-a-mind to stop and have him pay to file and handle all the ridiculous paperwork to do it.

He half-heartedly said if I was "done trying" (I think he meant trying to work on the paperwork and get in to see my L) that he'd "handle it from here."

He knows I still met with the L.

I haven't mentioned to him, since the initial BD, that I would even *think* to consider working on our M if he would agree to IC and/or MC. I also have not told him that I hate the idea of D because of how it destroys families, changes children ... and costs a bloody fortune.

As far as he knows, I'm moving in the S/D direction boldly ... and the next written communication he (and, likely, OW) will receive from me will be S papers.

So I missed a step in DB. I didn't tell him what I want. Well, I told him what I wanted at the time, in the heat of the moment, but I've changed my mind (and verbalized it) a few times. Lol. But I haven't told him what I want now that things are settled a tad.

I'm sort of feeling I should just let sleeping dogs lie right now. I should just keep working my "steps" for the kids and me and let him feel the dust I'm kicking up.

But then I think: My H has crappy self-esteem. He likes to be chased, I think. (Even the very day after the hotel-chaos, he came over to work on my car, and we split a 12-pack and actually laughed more together than we have in a while. I know that sounds really, really ... really ... odd. But it was almost as if the confrontation from the night before ... the barrage of information I sent him (all that I had neatly stockpiled and waited for just. the. right. moment. to fire off) ... relieved us both. Everything was in the open. All the cards were on the table.

There's a part of me that thinks, even as mad as he was at "all the sh!t I was pulling" the night before (his words), I also think he loved the fire in me. He hasn't seen that in me in quite some time. He loved and (somehow, maybe) valued that I was willing to fight - and fight BIG - for him. I actually didn't do any of it FOR him. I did it because my ego is a big, green monster that I had a hard time suppressing that night, and I wanted to show them that they have to get up a lot earlier in the morning to pull one over on ME. But, you know, the struggling-self-esteem-H sees what he wants to see, soooooo I think he looked at it, even if only subconsciously, as me "fighting for what's mine" ....

Good lawd that's a lot of explaining to get to a couple little questions:

Should I just keep doing what I'm doing? (I'm not initiating contact. I'm not snooping. I'm cheerful and purty and a little mysterious when he sees me.) Or should I chase him a little, since that's what he seems to be about? (OW is texting him now about her D11 being upset, etc. Bound to become a wake-up call to H soon that the hot, steamy side of that R is probably over, for the most part, and good ol' family-responsibility reality is setting in. *I* don't even text him when our kids are whining - duh.) Fact is: I don't even KNOW how to effectively "chase" somebody; is that bad?? And should I tell him what I wish for? Or just ignore that step all together ... mainly because I don't KNOW what I wish for right now?

I mean, I would like for us to wait until *at least* June (3 months after he left) to even talk about S/D again. I think our minds will be a little clearer from the B *he* dropped with the A ... and the B *I* exploded with the hotel/information "purging" from 1.5 weeks ago. Should I tell him that? Or let sleeping dogs lie?

As an aside, I'm supposed to be taking the kids to the beach end of April. Since he'd be giving up 3 days with them for me to go, I told him he could come to the beach to hang with them, which would free me up to spend a day on the beach, relaxing, alone. He said he would probably take me up on that and might actually plan to stay a night.

That's progress, I think, whether we work to repair our M or choose to become co-parents.

At the end of the day, what I really want is for us to (as quickly as possible) reach a "new normal," mainly for the kids' sakes. Fake it 'til we make it, at least. I'm realistic enough to know that he won't always leave his car running in the driveway when he picks up/drops off the kids. He won't always feel the need to text me before he calls so I don't answer the phone. He won't always avoid me like the plague.

We don't HAVE to end up together. But we do have to get along and co-parent. I'm ready to treat him like a co-parent. He's apparently not quite there.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
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And one more question: what kind of man - no matter how amazing he's been in the past - walks off from his W, leaving her to shepherd and lead and protect an entire family?? Four freaking kids?!??

And what kind of woman chooses to still love him and offer him leftovers for lunch?

Ugh. The roller coaster continues ...


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Train #2440741 03/25/14 04:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
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Today was the first day in a few days that H didn't stop by at lunch to pack more things. So I thought to myself: Awesome. My mind needs a break from hearing from/seeing him. I'll have a day that I can rest my mind and not have to put on my validating, smiling game-face.

Wrong.

He didn't call the kids last night, which is unusual, but I didn't think too much about it. Though he didn't show up here at lunch today, he texted on his lunch break, letting me know his car is having the same troubles as mine, and he was up until the wee-hours of the morning, working on his. He asked how my car was running since he worked on it.

I told him I hate he's having to spend so much time on our cars and that he's taken excellent care of them, but everything naturally gets old and beat-up with age. He replied: "Yeah, just like us." I wrote: "Yep. People, too. They're just not as easy to repair, I guess. Lol."

I am fully aware I can't read into ANYTHING right now. And I've got my mind in such a place that I don't want to lose my stamina. I don't WANT to think of "what-ifs." But I get a sneaking suspicion, with some of the comments he's been making and the ways he's been behaving, that his "wheels are spinning" now. And let's not forget I've been here before.

Here's what my head says and/or knows:

1. The affair has been exposed; I know about it, and so does OW's H.
2. My H - even in his current state of mind - is likely feeling quite a bit of guilt over wrecking not just one but TWO families.
3. Now that the A is exposed, I highly doubt H and OW's texts are the full-blown, porn-like texts they were. Now - and judging even by the text S7 saw on H's phone from OW about her D11 "being upset" - their texts are likely more about struggles and troubles.

That's probably making them re-think just how "miserable" they thought their Ms were in the first place.

Andddddd eureka. That's the anatomy of an affair. It's also why I wholeheartedly believe in exposing them.

Now, before anyone jumps down my throat about "being worried about what he's doing/thinking instead of being worried about myself," please hesitate to do that for at least one moment.

We alllllll think endlessly about our spouses - and their motives and their mentality - in the first weeks following the BD.

How this is helpful to me is that it helps me think ahead and develop my strategy for ME (even, though, yes, there's a great deal of projection and guessing happening in all that). I hate to say it, because this might sound really twisted, but this is kind of like a game of chess at first. I don't HAVE to know my "opponent's" move before I plan my own. But it's smart to guess it. (Switching analogies), if I'm gonna successfully fly a kite, it's helpful if I lick my finger and put it up in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. Right?

To me, the text today "just because" signals that whatever I'm doing is "working" IF I want to bring my H closer to me. In fact, I worked the steps at the beginning of DB - in the event I decide I want to try to save our M (that IS, after all the point of DB) - and one of the "small goals" would be: "He texts me, just because, and it won't have anything to do with the kids."

The fork in the road for me, now that I'm starting to see a few, very minor changes in him, is what *I* want to do if he keeps walking toward me with baby steps.

And, for the life of me, I cannot figure it out.

I don't know what I want. Except a little control. I know I want that.

hs, I ordered that book. Thank you for the recommendation. Can't wait to read it. smile


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Train #2440832 03/25/14 08:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 221
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Train,

I think you should continue as you are. I wouldn't offer words of affirmation at this point unless they are heartfelt and genuine. I think at this point he knows what he will be missing without you in his life- now he needs to FEEL what he will be missing. You are correct that the A will start to lose its luster as the fantasy he's envisioning in his head doesn't play out as he expects. The fact that the OW has a child that takes time away from him will start to get old in a hurry.

Don't second guess yourself for exposing the A to the OWs husband- it will help to speed up the end, despite what it appears currently. Affairs are very selfish things, and both parties involved are selfish themselves. Both want what makes THEM happy, not what makes their A partner happy. Of course, they don't see that yet- they think they want their partner to be happy, and that their A partner is only wanting the best for them as well. If that were really the case, then why would they be putting the other person's spouse and children through this awful experience? Once the fog is lifted, they will only be left with a tenuous relationship between two very selfish individuals. That's when reality will begin to set in.

On another note, I wouldn't ML with your H if he try's to make a move on you. It's not fair to you, and it will only allow him to eat more cake. I'm not suggesting that you are of the mind to, but just a reminder! smile

As you are aware, affairs are addictions. His brain is pumping chemicals that are encouraging you H to pursue this woman at all costs; that she is now his "soulmate". At the same time, his emotions are pushing him away from you. Picture a defiant teenager, disregarding his parents to go out with a girl that everyone else sees as a bad decision. You can't argue logically with that teen - they will have to come to the realization on their own. In fact, the more you push against them, the more you feed their "us against the world" passion. Instead, you must let them fall flat on their faces. As sickening as it is, you just have to pull away completely and let their R run its course. You'll have to be there to help pick up the shattered pieces afterwards....

Stay strong!
Hs

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