Its been a very long time since I have posted here. About 6 years ago I went through a divorce with my exH who I suspected was going through an MLC. (although I now suspect that in his case with was also NPD etc). This is now not why I am posting - I would very much appreciate some words and wisdom from you all.....I am really struggling and still, I suspect, in shock....
I have been in a relationship with a man now for nearly three years and have relocated with my D12 to live with him here in the UK. He is currently 62. New Years Eve 2013 (less than a month ago ) he dropped the bomb with the following - by email whilst my D and I were in Australia visiting my dying grandfather:
- I am finding it increasingly hard to continue being positive and cheerful when I dont feel that way. - I am depressed and it is because of you and our relationship -I have been troubled, concerned and deeply pressured about us - For my own peace of mind I have to end the relationship - I want 2014 to be a year of rejuvenation, new beginnings and that means that doors must close You are a good woman and you deserve to be with someone who can give you want you need and what I am unable to - We are both very different people - it is o ones fault - I need time to think so I do not want you to contact me except via email - I do not want any verbal or emotional pressure
This came COMPLETELY out of the blue although, on reflection, I think he has very very slowly going into a depression for the last 12-15 months. He has been more and more emotionally withdrawn, more detached, wanting to work away from home more and more (he is a freelance opera singer) and has been very irritable and cranky with me. Leading up to Xmas he was getting worse and also complaining of back ache and had two episodes or turns where he couldnt remember anything and he had to go and lie down.
When I got teh BD email we were in Oz and had to fly back to the UK in five days time. He had said that we could take as much time as we wanted to get our things but the message was clear that we needed to leave and that he would also be living in the house. I was so traumatised I couldnt so we came back to the UK (Jan 6) with no winter clothes and all of D's school gear in WAP's house. I did manage to go in and collect some things (he wasnt there) ON THE DAY WE GOT BACK - HE HAD REMOVED ALL VIABLE CONNECTIONS TO ME IN TEH BEDROOM and had changed to duvet cover etc.
He is rowing, popping optimum nutrition pills and putting pictures of his university days up on his bedroom wall. He is raw juicing and, as of a few days ago, I have found out that he has and is having an affair with one of his mature aged singing students who is married with four children. In fact when we were flying back, traumatised fro mAustralia he was away in a hotel with her for the weekend./
There is more to post but I wanted peoples opinion on this/ Is it MLC. I do not recognise my partner - he has completely turned into a cold and indifferent alien, even from texts that he was sending me right up to BD.
I have just finished moving all of our belongings from his house - we are in a new apartment with boxes all around us.....
Any support or feedback will be gratefully appreciated. I am happy to answer any questions and fill in as many gaps as possible. It has been a very hard 3 and a half weeks since BD.
I'm sorry you've had to return, but it does sound like he's having a crisis and yes, they can have a crisis at 62. Are you aware of any health issues or changes in his life in the last 18 months?
From your posting, I gather you have moved out of the home? If so, I would contact him at some point and ask if you can come by to get the rest of your belongings when he's not home.
After removing your belongings, I would leave him alone and allow him to have plenty of space. Do not contact him unless it's an emergency. He has specifically stated what type of contact he wants w/you and I would adhere to it as much as possible.
Ensure that you are not liable for any bills that he may incur because you never know if he'll be one of the ones that has a major spending spree along the way.
Try to keep the focus on you and your daughter. Take care of yourself the best you can. Live your life as if he may not want to reconcile.
I'm am very sorry that you have had to return.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi job, thanks very much for your reply - I have actually been reading your thread on why MLCers run away in their crisis - its been so informative so thank you...
So - in answer to your questions...
Are you aware of any health issues or changes in his life in the last 18 months? - I am not aware of any MAJOR health issues but he has been complaining of a bad back and shoulder and his knees have pretty much packed up because he played competition squash many years ago....changes in his life - he is a professional singer and although he had a lot of work last year he is trying to get more prestigious work which is harder. He has a beautiful voice but his age is STARTING to unfortunately go against in terms of auditions. etc. Its the first time, in October 203, where he has been offered a role, started the job and then the director sacked because he thought that he looked too old for the part. I noticed a significant turn downhill at that point. - He has been starting to become obsessed with raw juicing, taking optimum vitamin medication and is looking into age etc. (I would have loved to do ALL of this with him but it looks as if he wants all of it WITHOUT me around, rather with OW in tow..) - His father (nearly 89) tried to take an overdose late September 2013. WAP outwardly took it very calmly, almost coldly but I am sure that this could also be another contributing factor...
I have not lived in our home since December 20th 203 - this was the day that my D12 and I left for Australia. When we returned January 6th we stayed with a friend until we could find a place to live. I have spent the last four days removing all of our belongings from his house and that now is done. We have now no reason to contact each other. He asked me to return our keys - was extremely cold. He accused me of stealing his shampoo and conditioner from the bath???? I have given him everything he asked for re contact. I have gone EXTREMELY dark - almost NC except for emailing re arrangements for collection of our things. At first he was surprised that I didnt beg, plead, cry, become very emotional...he was expecting it. He emailed saying " Why havent you emailed - you have shown no remorse, no sadness, no understanding , no regret , nothing - how odd!" We are now no contact and I am maintaing that - especially because OW is now a confirmed entity.... I would appreciate some further feedback and am happy to fill in the doors more in a little while re our history/
I found his comments quite interesting that he was expecting you to show remorse, no sadness, no understanding, no regret, etc. Sounds to me like that is projection because why would you display any of these emotions if you weren't at fault?
I would definitely go completely dark on him and leave him to his ow. Clearly he's running from mortality and is worried about becoming an old man and living out his days w/his body breaking down.
Oh my goodness...stealing his shampoo and conditioner from the bath? Now, that's too funny. Even if you took them, they can be replaced for a nominal fee. Next he'll texting you about bill payments for last month.
He's clearly not thinking clearly and most likely not w/the head on his shoulders.
I'm glad you removed your belongings and now you need to focus on you and your daughter. If he should text you again about something, I would sit on that text for a good while and if you feel it requires and answer, do so, but in a very nice manner.
I do hope that he'll get some professional help...but most of them don't for a very long time, if ever.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi job, Thank you for this - I thought I would add more information (I have just posted this in newcomers so perhaps I should in future just stick to this thread)? I would agree with everything you have said (particularly about the projection) and am now going COMPLETELY dark. He MUST be in MLC??? Perhaps you could get back to me with further thoughts re the information below - it might help to further clarify things...
Thanks so much for your reply, I really appreciate it.... I guess what I am trying to do, in the midst of going extremely dark and GAL for myself and my daughter, is to ascertain whether this really is MLC or something different like PD etc. From everything he has said I think its MLC myself. Admittedly it has happened quite late compared to some but as you say there is a lot of script there.I guess I want some feedback on whether any DB techniques would even be applicable here. Thank you for your best wishes. D is very very shaken although she is the sort of personality that gets on with things, rolls up her sleeves and carries on etc. However this situation has, like myself, thrown her completely, it was unexpected and it has been somewhat of a severing on his part so she hasnt physically seen him or even spoken to him since December 20. That said he hasnt once asked about her. This in itself ids completely out of character. they were very closes and he was very caring and loving towards her in his own way (albeit also emotionally removed with everyone over the last 12-15 months...). She cries often and wants him to just come back and to give her hugs again and call her sweetheart, which he did all the time. It is a huge, unexplained loss for her.... OUr relationship, from my perspective, was well suited and we had a lot in common, particularly our music making. I am more open and emotionally mature/articulate than what he is so tis caused some problems. But from what I can see of our relationship he was certainly very happy to be in it and did everything he could to share his life with us. We lived in his home (the only other woman to do this was his wife and they divorced 10 years ago) and we were fully integrated into his family, seeing a lot of his two sons (29,27) - often twice a week for dinner where I would cook. We were fully visible and integrated into his life, family , work and friends. Because we had both been divorced before neither of us had any particular interest in remarriage to be honest. I never pushed for it and he didnt want it. My approach and hope was that I wanted to be happy with him and I valued him in our life. That was all that I wanted. So in that way I thought we were also compatible. Neither of us wanted any more children which was also another link. Re the depression there are many reasons why I suspect that he is going through one, least of all because in the BD email on new Years Eve he said: "I (his best friend) has spoken to me and he has said that you think that I ma depressed. I have thought about it and you are right. I am depressed. I am depressed because of you and this relationship. I have been very worried and have a building pressure about it. It has greatly concerned me and for my own peace of mind I have to end this relationship. I want 2014 to be a year of rejuvenation and new beginnings and that means that some doors must close. I simply cannot go on any longer". I have been reading quite a lot about male covert depression and he fits the timeline of covert strain building up and emotional withdrawal. About September 2012 I noticed a change, but it was slight, somewhat of an emotional detachment but still well within relationship. it was only at a level that a partner could sense. However this started to get worse. In December 2012 he had a mini BD - we had a fight about a prospective tenant in his house (I mentioned that because of D in the house that we should perhaps ask for references at the least meet the person) - and he blew up, accused me of molly-coddling D and stormed out and drove off. He stayed away that night and the next morning he sent me an email saying it was over/final etc. Accused me of hating men. He was very very angry, far more than this recent BD. I was shocked and spoke to J (his best friend) who talked to him and suggested that he have space to calm down. In this mini BD email he also said that his friends and family and remarked that he was depressed even then. So I think that this has been building up for some time. 2013 was generally stable, his words were conveying that he truly wanted this relationship and he was adamant on this. However his detachment became worse. He was starting to stay away from home more and was accepting work that justified it, often without any discussion. He started to state that he felt pressured being at home, that he wanted to be in his own home and feel; relaxed.... I tried my very very best to understand although I truly didnt factor in the depression issue in any serious way. I took him at his word literally so that when he was projection, blaming me for his own deep seated unhappiness I took it personally and tried my best to adapt etc.INothing I did made any difference. He became more withdrawn, more irritable, more emotionally detached. Sex was almost non existent - when I spoke to him about it he said that he couldnt do it because he was emotionally detached. He was however, looking at porn quite regularly.I found this very difficult and tried to speak to him about it but he just told me it was none of my business. also - re the depression he started to complain about aches/pains and was starting to panic about his age. In October 2013 his father, nearly 89, who himself has a history of adultery and depression and complete emotional detachment, trued to overdose....WAP seemed completely calm and cool about the whole thing from the outside but I suspect that it hit him very very hard. Around the same time he was contracted to sing at a major opera house but when he started the rehearsal schedule the director arrived and decided to sack him because he felt he was too old for the part. On the heels of that there were other auditions that he tried for in November 2013 that he didnt get. For the first time he was starting to panic and was talking about needing to travel more to audition, work on his audition techniques etc.
Timeline around BD - my D and I left for Oz on December 20m- my grandfather is dying at the moment and we went over to see him. WAP saw us off at the airport but was very very removed. However he was texting me at least once a day up to NYE and we spoke at some length on Christmas Day on Skype and he seemed normal, a bit tired but happy to speak to us. He spoke to my family as well. There was NO WARNING that BD was coming in the way it did. NYE all I got was an email. I had text him not knowing that he had sent the email and he text me back saying "did you get my email" no kisses which was UNPRECEDENTED so i knew something was wrong. I then checked my email and BAM> The problem was that my D and I were booked to fly back 5 days later to the UK and, understandably, all of our life, including her entire school gear and our winter clothes, were in his house. I have no doubt that he was assuming that we would HAVE to come back and live there with him because he assumed we had no where to go. However I rang some close friends who live nearby and they insisted that D and I stay with them. So I needed to email him to arrange to collect our essential items from his house on the day that we arrived back as D was back at school the next day. Because I was so traumatised by BD, and by it being by email, not even a phone call and not face to face, I just couldnt write to him. So my mother transcribed what I wanted to say and wrote to him on my behalf, very polite, non emotional and just keeping to organising a schedule for collection of our immediate things..... He replied to her with an onslaught of attack of my character which was completely unreasonable in that current situation. He started by saying " I am happy to facilitate the process of separation but I want you to know that I find LBS a woman who is very needy, needs a lot oh help, needs a lot of reassurance and support. However I never thought she would stoop so low as to need her mother to email me". He then went on to say "I am surprised that LBS has not responded to my email (NYE) - she is showing no sadness, no remorse, no regret, no understanding - nothing - how odd!". This email was only 1-2 days after BD. I couldnt believe it - I just couldnt believe what he was saying about me (suspect good old projection here) - this was NOT the same man that I had known for the last few years. We flew back and I went in, jet-lagged, into the property on January 6th and he had removed everything that was VISIBLY mine from our bedroom ie. all of my belongings were still in drawers and the wardrobe but all my books, pictures, and everything on my work desk down to the last staple had been put in our spare room. He had bought a new duvet cover and duvet and had a picture of a woman on his desk (NOT OW>>>??). So I went into further shock. About a week later I decided to bite the bullet and email him to organise dates/times to collect our things. It was the first and only contact I have made with him since BD (I have not said or written one word about his decision or about the emotional impact on me and D - he was NOT expecting that at all). I have redirected my mail which also surprised him. He held agreeing to the dates and times but finally did and I successfully moved everything last Friday. Over the last week he has emailed he twice - firstly to accuse me of stealing four forks and knives, a very old and dicrepid stockpot and, wait for it, his shampoo and conditioner from the bath (I found these in the boxes and returned them the next day). He then coldly emailed me the last day of moving (last Friday) and stated that I was still owing him one knife but he was prepared to overlook it. And would I please leave our keys on his kitchen table. Whilst I of course did leave them there when I left I was shocked that after nearly three years and living with this man that was all he could say, with no mention of anything to do with us and, importantly, D. Re OW she is a singing student of his (mature age, about 50 ish) and lives about 3 and a half hours away. She is married with four children. They have known each other about a year and I know she was after him. I found conclusive proof that while we were flying back from Ox on January 4/5 instead of him being in hour hometown helping his son install a new kitchen in his house (this is what he has told everyone including his best friend) he was in a hotel with her... Whilst I was packing our things I have found evidence of him popping nutrition supplements, reading how to get a flat ab in 5 days etc, using his rowing machine and looking to go on yoga retreats (he has never done yoga before...) He has also hung photos in his bedroom of when he was at university......
Thats about it for now but would really appreciate any more feedback that anyone could offer me.. thank you I x
My goodness...he's on a world wind rush to get healthy fast. Well, it does sound like MLC because of the way he's acting, but we can't rule out the possibility of a walkaway. Yes, he may be 62, but he could still be in MLC if he didn't navigate his life's transitions earlier on in life.
You need to remember that depression plays a major role in MLC. It's what sets them up to seek new and wonderful things to make them happy. They tend to experiment during this time, either w/ow/op, drugs, alcohol, oorn, gambling, yes, even exercising to excess or become workaholics. They also will project their feelings and activities on to you because it's all your fault that they are unhappy. Don't drink a glass of Kool-Aid from the pitcher he's holding. It's all about him.
Also, they vilify the LBS during this time and you can't take what he says personally. I bet you tried to pretzel yourself into whatever you thought would make him happy. Stop! This will not work, because when you think you've fixed one issue he has w/you, he will come up w/another one. They do not know what they want and again, it's all about him, not you.
As for your D, he may not want anything to do w/her for quite a while. They do tend to distance themselves from their old friends, pets, family and co-workers. This is all par for the course for MLCers. Nothing personal, but they don't want to be reminded of what they once had in their old life. However, that may change as he travels through his crisis...but time will tell on that one.
They do become emotionally detached from us long before they drop the bomb. Generally, the process begins 18-24 months prior to the bomb drop and the changes aren't that noticeable until very close to the bomb drop.
What advice can we give you? Continue as you have been, don't contact him and when he does contact you, don't appear to be sitting by the phone or computer waiting for him to do so. Live your life as if he may never want to reconcile. He's gone and he may very well be gone for a long time. There's nothing you can do to stop his MLC/walkaway thoughts and he has to gone through the entire crisis in order to come out the other side a better, more mature man.
Leave him alone, give him plenty of space, so much space that he'll eventually choke on it. You didn't break him, therefore, you can't fix him. Keep the focus on you and your D.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks so much job - I really appreciate your feedback - any advice you may have at this point in time is wonderful. The more I read your post the more I am CONVINCED that this is MLC. I know he is 62 but he HAS NOT dealt with with past - particularly childhood issues. To fill in a few gasp - I have not heard this from WAP but his brother who has been a wonderful support for myself and D over the last month since BD... WAP and his three siblings ( 2 brothers, one sister, WAP is the eldest) had a mother (she dies before I met WAP) who was by all accounts very emotionally cold. She told her children that she never wanted them in the first place and that she felt sabotaged into marriage. She viewed her role as a provider of food and someone who kept the house (although it was very messy a lot of the time)... She was also extremely hysterical a lot of the time as her husband (WAPS father) was a serial adulterer and philanderer. He was absent most of the time from home having affairs. When the father finally left for good WAPS mother had a breakdown and was admitted to a mental hospital for a period of time. WAP has recounted to em having to literally prise his mother of his father and stop her trying to scratch his eyes out in a public park when he was 5. I do not believe for one minute that he has deal with any of this. WAPS father is still alive and ironically D and myself have always been quite close to him. But he is a very emotionally removed man. Towards the end of last year he tried to take an overdose so I think there are many demons still there for him at the age of nearly 89. I also know he hasn't dealt with anything until now because he has repeatedly played out a version of his fathers cheating (not as much but it has happened). However to the best of my knowledge he has never done what he has done to me and D to anyone else - I think this is, by all accounts, the biggest crisis he has hit so far. The fact that he wrote, as a first port of call in his BD email, that he was depressed speaks volumes I feel. Now that I have had time and distance to think about it it is more significant, perhaps, than what I first gave it credit for.... I also think that the issue of the projection (remorse, regret etc) was also mixed with him quietly expecting sympathy from me. The yearning for youth and "rejuvenation" is really present and he seems completely focussed on that. Re rejecting his "old" life I am not sure - he seems to be in contact from what I know with his close friends but I think the main focus is OW (I am trying not to be upset about her - trying to remind myself that she is a self medication)...... I am interested to know more about the issue of depression in all of this so I will have a read of your thread now... Thank you job I x
I have just been reading your thread on MLC and Depression Job - thanks so mucxh - it has been invaluable. I saw so much of WAP in the list of depression symptoms. Interestingly he was completely HOPELESS in teh last 6 months before BD in terms of keeping teh house clean and tidy. The space next to his side of teh bed was strewn with newspapers etc......the kitchen was always filthy. While I was in his house packing my things these last few days the kitchen was really really filthy, rotting food, food stuck to the stove top etc. However the bedroom has started to be tidied up big time, new curtains, new duvet cover etc. And photos of his university days on the walls. He has bought new bathroom mats and a new bluetooth stereo for the bathroom.... And - in my last contact with him which was an email from him Friday morning - he wanted me to let him know via email or text when I had left from my final packing because he wanted to "get right back to tidy and clean the house"??? Any views on this? I x
