Don't know if im on the edge anymore or not....

[melissag]

I don't think I am suggesting that she will run to the OM if I ignore her but I don't want to make it so uncomfortable for her to approach me that she won't do it.

This I see where you are coming from.

But then you say:

I read her initial email about it being weird not talking to me as essentially saying 'i miss you.'

That's you mind reading and coming up with expectations based on your interpretation.

(I am really good at spotting when other people are doing this, still working on spotting it in my own sitch.)

I suppose you could also restate your boundary. "W, I am happy to meet up with you (check in with you, talk to you, whatever) - if and when you have ended your R with OM."

[dingo]

I guess it could be mind reading but do you have another way to interpret:

I guess I was so used to hearing from you that it's been weird not hearing from you.

Without looking into why she might miss me or what she intends to do about it (if anything) - which would be mind reading - i don't think there's any other way to interpret the basic message.

I haven't addressed whether I will meet her or not or what to say when she does call. Its still days away and these situations can change on a daily basis. Who knows if she even will call or propose to meet up. I have not responded at all to her last email and have some time still to mull over what I will do.

Your suggestion is actually a very good one M.

[melissag]

I guess it could be mind reading but do you have another way to interpret:

I guess I was so used to hearing from you that it's been weird not hearing from you.

Without looking into why she might miss me or what she intends to do about it (if anything) - which would be mind reading - i don't think there's any other way to interpret the basic message.

How does "it's weird not hearing from you" mean "I miss you?"

It could just as easily mean just what it says - "it's weird."

or, "I'm surprised you aren't pursuing me."

or, "I'm worried that you aren't on my hook anymore."

or, for all you know, "I like cheese."

[dingo]

I guess it could be mind reading but do you have another way to interpret:

I guess I was so used to hearing from you that it's been weird not hearing from you.

Without looking into why she might miss me or what she intends to do about it (if anything) - which would be mind reading - i don't think there's any other way to interpret the basic message.

How does "it's weird not hearing from you" mean "I miss you?"

It could just as easily mean just what it says - "it's weird."

or, "I'm surprised you aren't pursuing me."

or, "I'm worried that you aren't on my hook anymore."

or, for all you know, "I like cheese."

IDK M. I buy into the whole don't mind read but at some level, we all have a decent understanding of some basic human interactions and I don't think turning this into a completely robotic process helps and at some point, we have to assume things. I don't think any of us expect that people are always going to tell us exactly what they feel/think in plain, unequivocal language - especially when its such an emotional topic.

I think the basic assumption we all have to make when we DB is that our WAS isn't a 'bad' person. They don't manipulate for the sheer joy of having someone on the string. They are legitimately confused and are acting on confusing thoughts/needs.

We can sit here and argue semantics but i think when you are talking about human emotions, "weird" generally means strange and perhaps uncomfortable. So she's noticing that I am not there anymore and on some level it has taken her out of her comfort zone. Again - I am not implying that it means shes ready to work on things or ready to end the A or any of that - that most definitely would be mind-reading. Her motives may be what you said - I want you to pursue me, or I want the comfort of knowing that you're there but either way her statement conveys that she's lost something and recognizes it.

I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with cheese.

[PatientMan]

The only one that's relevant to the current situation is the standard for infidelity: We will not work on our relationship while you are involved in another.

She has been told this.

I think it's clear that she either doesn't think communicating with you violates that boundary or she does, but doesn't care.

You're getting good advice. Listen to it.

-PM

[dingo]

Or maybe she's ready to meet the condition? Is that a possibility? Perhaps an unlikely one but a possibility nonetheless? How do I know if I don't communicate with her? Is my expectation that in order for me to speak with her again, her next communication to me has to be along the lines of 'I am ready to commit to you again'? Is that realistic?

[melissag]

Dingo, if she has dumped the OM and is serious about working on your M, she knows how to say that to you. If she misses you, she could surely say so. In fact, I think she has said those very words to you before.

I'm not saying that she is a horrible person, delighting in pulling your puppet strings. But she is your W, and she is having an affair, so I'm not sure why you are so bent on giving her the benefit of the doubt. At the very least, she is being very selfish right now.

I totally get how you feel, because I was in the same place not long ago. I found myself arguing with the advice I was getting and not wanting to take it, because it wasn't what I wanted to hear. But for those of us who are not knee deep in your muck, your sitch, your W's behavior, and your behavior are much clearer.

Right now you are grasping for signs that she has dumped the OM and wants to R with you. But she has said nothing of the sort.

I'm not trying to be mean. I hope that she does want to R, and I hope that you two work things out. I truly do.

Look, maybe you shouldn't be taking advice from me, since I will apparently be getting D rather soon, but if I were you, I would quit all the pussyfooting around and just repeat the boundary.

"W, let me know when you have broken things off with the OM. Then I will be happy to meet up with you and talk."

I think if you continue what you are doing right now, you are just printing your own ticket for your own roller coaster.

[GotoGirl]

Ugh Dingo. I feel like I could be reading my own thoughts. It is hard to not read into what your spouse is saying...it does seem like mixed signals....I over analyze interactions I have with H.

I wish I had advice . Hang I there.

[dingo]

Dingo, if she has dumped the OM and is serious about working on your M, she knows how to say that to you. If she misses you, she could surely say so. In fact, I think she has said those very words to you before.

I'm not saying that she is a horrible person, delighting in pulling your puppet strings. But she is your W, and she is having an affair, so I'm not sure why you are so bent on giving her the benefit of the doubt. At the very least, she is being very selfish right now.

I totally get how you feel, because I was in the same place not long ago. I found myself arguing with the advice I was getting and not wanting to take it, because it wasn't what I wanted to hear. But for those of us who are not knee deep in your muck, your sitch, your W's behavior, and your behavior are much clearer.

Right now you are grasping for signs that she has dumped the OM and wants to R with you. But she has said nothing of the sort.

I'm not trying to be mean. I hope that she does want to R, and I hope that you two work things out. I truly do.

Look, maybe you shouldn't be taking advice from me, since I will apparently be getting D rather soon, but if I were you, I would quit all the pussyfooting around and just repeat the boundary.

"W, let me know when you have broken things off with the OM. Then I will be happy to meet up with you and talk."

I think if you continue what you are doing right now, you are just printing your own ticket for your own roller coaster.

That's just it M. I am not looking for signs of anything. I am not assuming that she's made some dramatic turnaround and is ready to jump into my arms again and all is well in dingoworld for the rest of our fairytale lives. Or if I am, its the fact that I READ her email that caused that, not the fact that I responded to it.

I think everyone assumes that I am thinking that everything is solved - but maybe that's mind-reading too. Who knows.

The only things I said were:
1. There is something that she is missing by not having regular contact with me. (FACT - at least to the extent that you can believe her words)
2. I don't know what the current state of the affair is (FACT)
3. I do not see the harm in a completely bland and emotionless response to an email after being prompted 3 times to answer her.
4. Nobody on these boards, including me, have any idea what she is thinking - if she is playing games or not (FACT)

I find it very hard to believe that anyone here expects that after a period of NC (as short as this one may be) that the first communication from a WAS should be nothing short of 'the affair is over - I am ready to work on things again'. Is there a single case on these boards where this has happened? Where someone got an email out of the blue that said 'sorry spouse, we havent spoke in X days because you've been ignoring me but I want to work on a relationship with you'. Frankly, I think its ridiculous to even suggest that would happen.

I am also waiting for someone to explain to me how my response showed anything other than 'loving detachment'. I am also waiting for someone to show me a scenario (other than the one above) where an estranged couple have positive interactions and begin to turn things around by one person ignoring the other. How do I 'leave a smooth path for the WAS to return home' if I ignore her?

I DID NOT agree to meet with her and I DID NOT agree to talk to her. Honestly, I don't think I need to restate my boundaries. They've been stated more times than they needed to be as it is.

How do I know if I can handle an interaction without expectations unless I have an interaction? How do I show her positive changes I've made unless I interact with her? How do I know if she's done the work and had a change of heart if I don't interact with her? How do I challenge the changes Ive made unless I put them to the test? Maybe I am not as ready as I think I am but how do I know if I refuse to try?

You asked why I give her the benefit of the doubt when she's having an affair M. The answer is because through reading this site and many books, I can empathize with what she's going through. Because I realize that she's in a lot of pain too and her life has been turned upside down just as much (if not more so than mine). Because I recognize that I am partly responsible for putting her there.

Maybe she is being selfish and maybe she isn't. Maybe she doesn't care about my boundaries. Maybe she's had a change of heart. How do I know if I ignore her?

Sorry Bug - I disagree with your statement on boundaries. If I am not interacting with her because she hurt me emotionally, then that boundary is enforced from a place of fear. Fear that I will be hurt again. If she can't hurt me emotionally because I have completely detached or because I am strong enough emotionally that it doesn't affect me, then there is no longer any need for the boundary.

I don't mean to sound indignant or unappreciative. I come here for help and for a place to help me deal with this terrible situation but I am completely confused by this recent string of advice. Not because its not what I want to hear but because it seems to defy logic.

Here's an article that I am sure most of you have read but maybe ought to re-read.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/a_while_spouse_decides.htm

[GotoGirl]

Dingo, I think you make some really valid points. I am no expert, as I am muddling through my own mess. If it is any help, I will say this...

The only person that really knows you and your situation is you. Even though it might seem like your W is a different person, you probably know her best...even if it might seem like "mind reading" or putting your own "spin" on what she is saying, there probably is a bit of truth to what you are thinking/interpreting. Sometimes you have to go with your gut and do what You feel is best. At this point, do you have any more to lose? I have done some DB'ing things and they have worked and I have also done things that aren't exactly DB'ing and they have also worked.


I also agree with you statement that even though your W may have OM, she probably had a reason for doing what she is doing. She probably is hurting a lot. From my own experience, I realize why my H would find comfort in someone else. I'm not saying I condone his behavior or agree with what he has done but knowing where I and we went wrong in our R, I understand.

I think there is alot of really great advice and input on everones' posts and think it's great to take all input into consideration but in the end this is your life and your journey. Do what you think is best for you. Sometimes you might get it right, sometimes you might get it wrong. You won't know unless you try.

That's my 2 cents, for what it's worth .