First off, things seem to be moving at a heightened pace lately. I'm not sure why that is, but it just feels like it.
Second, thanks to PositiveSpin for the advice in this post. I didn't thank you in my last thread, but that is GREAT advice. It should be obvious because it makes so much sense, but it's a reminder to be intentional with the kids who are going through this.
Thirdly, XW doesn't seem to want to respect the boundaries we agreed on...the only one she seems to care for is having a weekend with the ladies at my place, probably so she can decompress (totally understandable - I can't imagine how tough/hectic her day-to-day life is). As I pointed out near the end of my last thread, she full frontal assaulted me Saturday, which I had to turn down (still feeling that one ).
We spoke for a while yesterday at her house, which again throws me off because one of the boundaries SHE wanted was less me in her house so she could really feel like that was HER space. I brought that up, and the fact that this past weekend was HER weekend with the kids, but I spent a good amount of time there. She kept saying she wanted me there.
Anyway, so we talked for a while yesterday, and then texted for a while last night after I left. And we're texting again today about some serious things.
Really, where she is is a place where she wants to be independent, but she just misses me (her words). I've been validating a lot - just asking her what certain things that she says mean and asking her how she feels about certain things she mentions.
She has brought this up before, but she even suggested moving back to the MidWest, where we're both from (hence the thread title). She's tired of the city we're in now, all the bad memories it reminds her of, and the fact we don't have family near.
I'll post more specifics later (there's some important dialogue that transpired), I just wanted to get a new thread started. Thanks for reading.
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
There is just so much going on in my head right now, I don't know where to start.
Really, what I need to decide is if I'm willing to ride this roller coaster with her, strapped in as best I can, or whether I need to get off of it.
She fully recognizes what her roller coaster is. She wants two things:
1) Me 2) "To be okay on her own"/"independent"/"strong and capable on my own"
She sees these two as mutually exclusive, so she has decided that she can't/won't go for #1 without first completing #2. Her roller coaster is missing me while she is going for #2, and feeling like she isn't accomplishing her goals of improving herself when she is going for #1.
No, it is not a coincidence that I'm #1.
So she fully realizes and admits that she's on her roller coaster, and admits to feeling bad for putting me through it as well.
She told me that sometimes she wants to just pack up and move back to Chicago, which would be much closer to family. I responded with "please don't take them away from me" (she can't, legally, but that isn't the best response) and she said, "In this scenario you would come with us." And then she rattled off a bunch of reasons why it would make sense to move there.
We went back and forth a little bit about the positives, but she knows it's a little bit of a pipe dream and that we can't just run away from our problems. I told her to "sleep on it."
Yesterday I asked her how she felt, and she responded with the roller coaster answers of wanting to be independent, but missing me. "Emotional" "Brain dead" "Not sure how I feel" as examples. "I do want to be independent. Feel strong and capable on my own." Then "But I miss you."
I told her "You ARE strong and capable - you've more than proven that. But if you don't 'feel' that way, then I can see how you are 'not sure.'"
And then I tried to point out that 1)missing me, and 2)independence are not mutually exclusive states of mind, but I don't want to tell her that, I want her to realize it on her own. So I subtly said, "Does missing me mean you aren't independent?"
She replied "No, it just makes it harder because I want you around." And then "Feel like I'm still learning things about myself."
So I respond with a little bit of my own experience, but also subtly tried to point out that learning and growing doesn't stop when you're with someone.
That's the bulk of it from the last two days.
So it was her weekend, but I spent a lot of time at her house. And I was there again last night to see the girls, but XW was gone for most of it because she was at work. I fed the girls dinner and then we went to Hobby Lobby to get some crafts they have been asking about.
Got back to her house and she still wasn't home yet, so I got the girls started with their bedtime stuff. I heard the garage door open, but after a couple of minutes XW didn't come in, so I poked my head into the garage to check. She was in her van on the phone finishing up a conversation.
I know she was just chatting with a friend, but a pang of jealousy hit me. It's so weird that I still feel that. In fact, I had that exact same feeling after the very first time I saw her, 15 years ago. Her brother had stopped by with her as she was visiting our duty station from out of town. She didn't say anything, and there were people everywhere - I even spoke to them - but all I remember is her. When they left I heard someone else come up and start talking to them and that same pang of jealousy hit me.
So weird.
Anyway, XW is home, so it's time for me to leave, but the kids are being sneaky little darlings about it, asking for "one more hug" or "one more jump from the stairs" (the little ones like to jump from the 5th and 6th step on the staircase and have me catch them...actually D10 still does it too, but she's kind of small and will go up to the 7th step ).
And I swear they've preplanned this out because they're individual tactics and overall strategy - down to the location of each child - was in such a way that I was there for an extra 20 minutes.
D7 said she was "stressed out" because the people who sit at her table at school talk too loud and she only gets to see her Dad twice a week now and she wants to see him more than that. GUT-PUNCH! I swear I heard the boxing play-by-play announcer excitedly yell from the living room nearby, "AND D7 LANDS A WICK-UD SHAWT TO THE BAWDY!" (He has a Boston accent.)
I think that's enough rambling for now. I'm all caught up in it, but I don't know if it's better to not be.
"Girl is on my mind, Try to ignore it, I try to unwind, But she is on my mind"
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Oh, the same friend of hers who somehow, magically, but without much effort at all opened XW's mind up to the possibility of therapy/counseling also told her that she thinks we're going to be apart for a while and then come back together.
If this friend is so influential, I wonder if XW thinks something similar. She sure is kinda acting that way.
And I wonder why she told me that.
Maybe I'm just a stupid little fish caught on her hook. I do think there was some merit to me turning her down for sex on Saturday.
And all this weakness that I'm allowing to come through your computer/phone screen? She doesn't get to see any of that.
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
I kinda feel like I don't know what the he1l I'm doing right now, so I agree I am doing THAT correctly.
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Does your XW realize that she has created an impossible situation?
Do you think that maybe she has done this purposely (though perhaps subconsciously)?
How does she think that moving would help things with you? And how does that play into the idea that she needs to make sure she is OK "on her own?"
It just seems to me that right now, you can't win with her.
On the plus side, that would be great if she would get into IC. You should know how lucky you are that your XW has a friend who cares enough about her, and has the courage, to suggest such a thing. All of my H's "friends" and family are enablers.
me: 44 XH: 42 M 11 years D10 and S8 Bomb drop 9/27/13 D final 7/1/14
I kinda feel like I don't know what the he1l I'm doing right now, so I agree I am doing THAT correctly.
-PM
Okay...this ^^^^^ made me snort out loud, at work! I think we ALL feel that way, A LOT of the time. LOL.
I was catching up on your sitch. I really have NO wisdom to impart....sorry. But, she does seem to be still reaching for you. And, it is GREAT that she has a friend who seems to be a HEALTHY friend. So many of our WAS's have horrible influences!
I truly hope that she starts to see that being independent, and being with you, can both happen at the same time! I'm still hoping for that "happy ending" for you!
Does your XW realize that she has created an impossible situation?
I think she kinda does. She realizes she is still messed up and needs to fix it. She realizes she's dragging me through her trying to clean up her own mess, and she shows remorse and guilt for that.
Originally Posted By: melissag
Do you think that maybe she has done this purposely (though perhaps subconsciously)?
I don't think she's done it maliciously, but it's certainly possible she wants to keep me around as an option.
I think she honestly does miss me and love me, and she's trying to get back to a place where she doesn't lose herself, but she doesn't know what to do or how to do it.
I think she is afraid to love me like she did before. Her head is telling her it's safe, but her heart can't quite get there. I don't know if she'll let it.
Originally Posted By: melissag
How does she think that moving would help things with you?
I think she is just fantasizing about a truly fresh start. Saying goodbye to this city that harbors all these bad memories where we've been essentially stuck on an island far away from either of our families.
Originally Posted By: melissag
And how does that play into the idea that she needs to make sure she is OK "on her own?"
I have no idea.
Originally Posted By: melissag
It just seems to me that right now, you can't win with her.
That's what it feels like. It feels like she's still watching me intently, waiting for me to mess up so she can tell herself that she knew it all along.
It's been over two years. She's seen the changes. She knows they're real.
Originally Posted By: melissag
On the plus side, that would be great if she would get into IC. You should know how lucky you are that your XW has a friend who cares enough about her, and has the courage, to suggest such a thing. All of my H's "friends" and family are enablers.
I just want her to find peace. I hope she goes. Time and money are big obstacles for her, but being open to it was very encouraging to hear.
Thanks for posting!
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
I kinda feel like I don't know what the he1l I'm doing right now, so I agree I am doing THAT correctly.
-PM
Okay...this ^^^^^ made me snort out loud, at work! I think we ALL feel that way, A LOT of the time. LOL.
I was catching up on your sitch. I really have NO wisdom to impart....sorry. But, she does seem to be still reaching for you. And, it is GREAT that she has a friend who seems to be a HEALTHY friend. So many of our WAS's have horrible influences!
I truly hope that she starts to see that being independent, and being with you, can both happen at the same time! I'm still hoping for that "happy ending" for you!
Hang in there! A
Thank you very much.
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
So all was all hopped up on peyote last night and came to some clarity while in deep thought. She's never really felt in control, so that's why I've backed off so much to let her know that she's calling the shots. She's never felt independent and capable on her own (she went from under her dad's roof to under mine), so I need to help her get there as well. And I realize that might mean getting out of the way in her life as much as possible (kids) if that's what she wants.
She's getting a less expensive vehicle. She's moving to a more affordable house. I think that once she can really make it month-to-month, she will feel empowered and I'm encouraged she's actively taking the steps to get there.
I won't lie and say I don't hope that when she gets there she can get a fresh perspective on whether she wants to go on a date with me or not, but I really do want her to be okay and just find peace. My goodness, she deserves that.
And no, I wasn't all hopped up on peyote.
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
).
). 
I swear I heard the boxing play-by-play announcer excitedly yell from the living room nearby, "AND D7 LANDS A WICK-UD SHAWT TO THE BAWDY!" (He has a Boston accent.)
But, she does seem to be still reaching for you. And, it is GREAT that she has a friend who seems to be a HEALTHY friend. So many of our WAS's have horrible influences!