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A Message from Michele
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Re: PatientMan - 6th Edition - Acting Divorced [Re: AnotherStander] #2422914
01/13/14 10:53 PM
01/13/14 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherStander

I really do miss my BF as well. But I finally came to realize that getting my W back would not bring my BF back, because the person that inhabits my old W's body now is not the person I loved and considered my BF. That person is gone, maybe never to return.


This is exactly how I feel.

Re: PatientMan - 6th Edition - Acting Divorced [Re: LBH_LC] #2423075
01/14/14 03:37 PM
01/14/14 03:37 PM
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PatientMan Offline OP
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*SIGH*

I haven't yet posted about the boundaries we put into place, but more of the same erratic behavior from her last night. She got home from work when the kids were starting to get ready for bed (showers, cleanup, etc.). She's talking to me and I'm just listening and slightly engaging, but trying to respect the boundary that this is her house and her space and I don't want her to feel like I'm intruding in on it, which is partly what spooked her last month.

So I'm just waiting for her to take a breath so I can exit, and all of a sudden her eyes well up with tears and she says, "It's really good to see you. I hope it's okay to say that. I miss you." (We're supposed to be creating space for the benefit of both of us.) She goes on to say "I knew once I saw you I was going to start crying."

I was silent and stoic for a moment.

Then I said, "It's okay to say that and I do miss you too. I mean...c'mon...you've been my best friend for 15 years. This isn't easy."

I went upstairs for one last hug from the kids and then went to the front door to leave.

She follows.

After I say, "Have a good night", open the door, and begin to cross the threshold, she asks for a hug.

I just look at her. Physical contact is a slippery slope for us and it was one of the boundaries we put into place.

She says, "I know it's against the rules, but can I really just have a hug. Please."

I stood there for a few seconds, then stepped back into the house and embraced her. She dug her head into my chest.

As we were hugging I said, "I want you to be okay. Not for me, just for you. And if hugs are a setback for you, then I don't want to hug you."

She said that she was fine and she was "getting there", meaning that place where she is okay on her own.

I told her goodnight again and I left.

-PM


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: PatientMan - 6th Edition - Acting Divorced [Re: PatientMan] #2423085
01/14/14 04:12 PM
01/14/14 04:12 PM
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The boundaries we put into place:
  • We will alternate weekends with who has the kids. Logistically it's not the most logical approach, but I understand it may be necessary for at least a little while. It does establish more of a two home family for the girls, instead of 1) their home, and 2) my home that they occasionally stay at (usually Saturday nights because we go to church the next morning).
  • I'll come up after work to see the girls 2-3 times per week. She prefers if I take them somewhere instead of coming in and staying with them at the house. Again, on school nights this isn't the most logical approach (homework, dinner, bedtime stuff), but I feel she needs to establish her own space and an easy fix for that is for me to not be in it.
  • Limited contact during business hours. Really only in case of emergency or coordinating the kids.
  • Physical contact: no sex, no massages, no snuggling. I hated to say no hugs, but quick hugs turn into longer hugs...
  • No hanging around to watch TV or spend time together

-PM


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: PatientMan - 6th Edition - Acting Divorced [Re: PatientMan] #2423087
01/14/14 04:20 PM
01/14/14 04:20 PM
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What spooked her:

Prior to her family coming for Christmas I asked her if she wanted me to be around the house less so she could have time with her family and her holiday with the kids. At that point were still in the middle of that month and a half long trend where she was clearly moving closer to me. She said very definitively that DIDN'T want me around less.

At some point (or points) over the holiday she said she felt like I was the Dad of the house, that she didn't have control of her house, that she didn't have a say when I was being Dad to the girls (pick up your rooms, be nice to each other...typical Dad stuff).

And when she got spooked she pushed away hard.

-PM


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: PatientMan - 6th Edition - Acting Divorced [Re: PatientMan] #2423187
01/14/14 08:50 PM
01/14/14 08:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
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PM . . . why did that ^^^ spook her? And what does that mean about ever R?

You didn't elaborate much, but it doesn't sound like you were being controlling or overbearing with the kids, or stepping on her toes . . . was it more just the feeling that you were a family again that spooked her? And if so, why?

I keep up with your sitch with interest, for two reasons.

One, you have given me much appreciated support and advice, I think we write and think somewhat similarly, and I can see that you are a genuine person who I think deserves every happiness;

And two, I feel that we have some similarities in our sitches.

I sometimes see myself going down the same road as you. At times it looks like somewhere I want to go, and at other times, not at all. smile

But back to you and your W.

PM, it is painful to read some of your posts, because I see two people who love each other and care about each other, yet cannot be together. And I am not sure I understand why. Do you understand why?


me: 44 XH: 42
M 11 years
D10 and S8
Bomb drop 9/27/13
D final 7/1/14
Re: PatientMan - 6th Edition - Acting Divorced [Re: melissag] #2423204
01/14/14 10:01 PM
01/14/14 10:01 PM
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Melissa sort of said exactly what I was thinking. My W and I are your exact opposite - loud, crazy, angry, and we are fighting through our very steep differences.

I honestly feel like you and your XW have a deep settled love for each other, but you've worked so hard to detach you don't even know how to stop, and maybe she doesn't know how to say, "I made a mistake."

Weird. I feel for you. My W's parents are divorced, and I watched him sit in a big fishing boat with us and put his hand on her leg because she was a little queasy. Then, it got all awkward, and he took it off, and asked if she was ok, and walked away. I was thinking, "they still love each other, 3 years after divorce."

How much of your separation is due to just not knowing how to change? Don't tell me I don't know the whole story; strip away your emotions, your head, your thoughts, your opinions....

Re: PatientMan - 6th Edition - Acting Divorced [Re: melissag] #2423209
01/14/14 10:38 PM
01/14/14 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: melissag
PM . . . why did that ^^^ spook her?


I don't know other than what she said: she felt like she wasn't in control of her own home, that I had stepped in and taken charge, even if it was warranted since I'm the kids' dad 100% of the time no matter where we are.

I don't think it has to make sense...it doesn't have to be logical. That feeling spooked her.

And I'm not blaming her family or saying anyone is out to sabotage anything, but I don't think it was a coincidence that they were in town.

Originally Posted By: melissag
And what does that mean about ever R?


I don't know. It certainly doesn't make it sound promising, does it?

Originally Posted By: melissag
You didn't elaborate much, but it doesn't sound like you were being controlling or overbearing with the kids, or stepping on her toes . . . was it more just the feeling that you were a family again that spooked her?


I think that may be part of it: feeling like a family again.

She said that she felt like she couldn't speak up. Not that there was anything to speak up to, but it made her feel like she used to feel, I guess. I don't know how to say this on a MB to make it sound like I'm not a controlling, overbearing, shouting monster of a man, but I guess I am an intimidating figure, and I don't mean to be, but she has told me that I can be scary.

I have never hit her or threatened her or called her nasty names...ever, EVER, so there is no history of abuse we are combating here. She just has communicated to me in the past that it's very easy for me to be scary, so that is something I always tried to be cognizant of and dial down when parenting the kids. Little girls don't need to be scared of their dad, so I really took that to heart and feel like I have done a good job with that. The girls and I have a fantastic relationship, so much so that they come to me with problems and questions that almost everyone would agree are topics for Mom and not Dad.

Sorry for the slight tangent there, I just wanted to be sure I didn't come across like some crazy control freak of a dad/husband, because that has not been and is not the case. However I come across - which I don't know as I can't see myself - I'm sure is partly just me and also exacerbated by my experience in the Marine Corps.

With XW, I never discounted her opinion or told her that *I* make the decisions or anything of the sort. I never put her down or said "I make more money" or anything at all like that. But I guess she felt that way at times, that I was the decision maker, and that she couldn't or shouldn't speak up. I was older and I guess she felt that meant I called the shots, which comes naturally to me. And that hurts to hear because I never wanted to create that type of environment...we really were/are a good parenting team and for a majority of our marriage had a fantastic relationship.

But what matters is she felt that way, and I guess she felt that way again recently and didn't like it. And it's the perception that matters.

But I take every piece of information I can get and try to improve. I corrected my four year old right in front of XW last night and it didn't seem to bother her...at least based on how she treated me last night which you've already read.

Originally Posted By: melissag
PM, it is painful to read some of your posts, because I see two people who love each other and care about each other, yet cannot be together. And I am not sure I understand why. Do you understand why?


She won't allow it right now. She's like the tide coming in and I'm standing on the shore. Each wave over the last 2 years she comes closer, then recedes, then even closer, and recedes again. But she just won't come all the way to me.

Yet.

-PM


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: PatientMan - 6th Edition - Acting Divorced [Re: JayMan] #2423212
01/14/14 10:47 PM
01/14/14 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: JonF
I honestly feel like you and your XW have a deep settled love for each other, but you've worked so hard to detach you don't even know how to stop,

I have to mentally fight every cell in my body telling me to act. It is no easy task for me to just stand there. It tears me apart to watch her hurting and not be able to do anything.

Originally Posted By: JonF
...and maybe she doesn't know how to say, "I made a mistake."
She's said, "I think I may have made a mistake" and "I don't know if I made the right decision", but I do think you're correct in that she has painted herself into a mental corner where she "has to be okay on her own", which she admits she doesn't even know if it's possible for her and she can't even really define what that tangible goal is.

Originally Posted By: JonF
How much of your separation is due to just not knowing how to change? Don't tell me I don't know the whole story; strip away your emotions, your head, your thoughts, your opinions....


This experience has changed me dramatically. I continue to change, to process information and better myself as a person and a father and a potential mate. This separation has nothing to do with my detachment and an unwillingness to try again.

In what ways do you think I need to change?

-PM


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: PatientMan - 6th Edition - Acting Divorced [Re: PatientMan] #2423231
01/14/14 11:58 PM
01/14/14 11:58 PM
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Let me just qualify the "scary" term that she used. She did say she is not fearful of me. She knows I would never hurt her or the girls. I guess maybe it isn't...fun to disagree with me? I'm not sure quite how to word it. I'm certainly not a hot-head either. Usually, though, when I see something wrong I am quick to react and correct it, like the high school kid from this post.

-PM


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: PatientMan - 6th Edition - Acting Divorced [Re: PatientMan] #2423262
01/15/14 03:20 AM
01/15/14 03:20 AM
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You know, PM, I think I understand why your wife feels. It isnt really that she is scared of you.

There is something about a person with a lot of comfidence to a person who doesnt have much. I know because I didnt used to have much.

She is struggling, it seems, to find her way, to understand what it means to be on her own, to find her.

You are someone who handles things. I would imagine you swooped in at times. Now, there isnt anything in and of itself necessarily wrong with that. But to someone who is a little lost, who lacks some self confidence in certain areas, it can be a bit intimidating.

And I know several Marines, great guys, but there is a certain confidence about them, that is different from others.

I am a very capable woman. I am smart, resourceful, etc. But my xh had a way of making me feel a bit incapable. Because he would just do these little things, that I dont think he realized.

Sometimes it was just a look or a word, other times he swooped in. I was very capable at work, at everywhere else, actually. Yet, when I was around him, I just wasnt.

Your wife is trying really hard to get through this. She is trying really hard to find her center, to figure out just who she.

I know that you are not purposely, in any way, trying to make her feel that way. She is doing that. We allow others to make us feel a certain way.

It is important to let her lead. She clearly wants your approval. Be mindful of your words and actions. Show her that you think she is capable and worthy and that you respect her.

I am sure that you try to do this as much as possible. And you are who you are in terms of your personality. And I get the "isnt fun to disagree with you" aspect. So maybe you try not to be so quick to react and correct when around her, ya know?

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