NEW LIFE / NEW ME - AIRBORNE III

[Fartiltre]

Previous thread here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2408639&page=12

[Fartiltre]

Well, here is another long post about the follow up on the talk I had with W yesterday.
The talk was nice and pleasant but with an edge and a little tension here and there.

W stated some things about her look on me and my changes for the first time….



W called this afternoon and she had me boiling in two minutes so I told her that we would have to continue the talk when I felt less angry and when she would talk about the things instead of attacking me.
She agreed and actually left the phone without hanging up. I hung up after 10 secs of this.


She called back shortly after and we had a decent and nice talk.
She started out by saying that we can’t get angry at each other, that we all have feelings in this and so on. I agreed and then she said that “All I want is for the children to see the live [TV-show] so F, please don’t think more about me having a hole weekend and all the other I have said – I just want them to see it” She had a long monologue on this.

When she finished I told her that I have been thinking too and that what she just told me was the same as the last thing yesterday and that I think we should go and see the show all of us. I told her that she said many things yesterday that made me rethink.
W: “Why didn’t you tell me that when I called the first time”
I told her “Because when you called the first time you started out by asking me a question and before I had answered this everything went crazy”. She started some buts and got a little angry over me not stating this. I let her talk and she asked:

W: “When would you have told me?” and I answered
ME: “I think when I have finished answering your initial question”.
W: “Then it is just me that needs to learn to shut up sometimes….I will practice that, F…I need to learn that”
Me: “I do not know what to say to that”
W: “That I shouldn’t get angry, that I should sometimes wait and listen – I have always had a problem with that when it comes to you.”

Then we went through my standing on the time I have with the kids. How sacred it is to me and she stated that she understands. She kept on arguing about me demanding and I kept on saying that I just answered what she asked – until I stopped that and just listened.

I let her finish. While she talked she stated these three:
W: “I miss S10 awfully much and I cherish the time I have with him and XW1”
“We all lose in this but we also get something….sigh…yes!”
“You can talk to me and if I suggest something that you don’t like then say it out loud”

We talked through the things again. I tried to explain why I wanted it to be only us.
Then I stated that if our relationship is worsened by some reason then we won’t go?
She asked “Why should it be worsened?” and I told her that I do not know, that I can’t answer this and that I do not hope for it – but also that I find it fair to tell her this.

Then I told her that I am not trying to take something from her. That it is important for me that she knows this. That I am out to protect children and me. That this is a process for all of us and that I have been thinking a lot. I will properly never be the biggest fan of [TV-show] but I want to ….then she interrupted.

W said a lot of things and then…"
W: “D asked me the other day: Mom, why isn’t here any present?” and she answered “Because it is Thursday!” I think you have speeded up, F and that is so great and I haven’t got a single doubt about how fantastic and great the children have it when at your place but I can also feel that all the things you do now, F makes on big question mark to me. One thing is that it is so disappointing and sad and the other is just “Why is he now doing that – this was my thing to do”…but great for the kids. They get so many good experiences….can you follow me?
M: “Not totally…..why is this disappointing and sad?”
W: “Because I have spent so much time getting you to do these things while we were together and when we are not you can do it all…that disappointing and sad”
M: “Ok, I get it. I follow you [looong break] and I feel the same way.”

Long awkward break and then the practicals. She complained about none of the good seats being available now.

Me: “W, I think it is so nice to end this in this way. The last talk were I got angry and you got provocative won’t get us anywhere.”
W: “I agree but it is OK. We both have feelings in this and we both wants to give the children good experiences. I am also glad, F”

Back to practical’s, over and out!

[2old]

F, practicals yes.... but isn't this also progress?

[Fartiltre]

Thanks,

I do truly hope that is not the case, just sounds like she is more set in what she says.

Me neither but she sounds this way. After the convo today I don’t know anything. She seems gone but also states that she sees change.

But make sure you are saying no for your own reasons and not to punish her.

I am! But even though I think through the stuff many times I still wonder if some little hidden devil inside me has a hidden agenda – so thanks for reminding me!

F, practicals yes.... but isn't this also progress?

I honestly do not know! Sandi has pointed out that understanding women is almost impossible and when you add the WAS then…well you get it!
On the other hand it does feel like it. I was able to handle myself quite well. When I got angry I recognized it almost immediately and took good actions. All though many things could have been handled better, I feel good about me handling me.

F

[2ndTimeHurt]

F, I totally relate when your w says that's she is sad and disappointed that you are doing these things now. My ex screamed these things to me before. Just keep it up and you might get her to bring her walls down more. It's a good thing that she's getting upset, it means she can she the changes. My opinion anyway. If you get a chance at reconciling, don't screw it up like I did.

And when I hear you say demands, it really does come across as negative. Maybe say requests or wants or desires instead. Demands sounds controlling. Just my opinion.

[AnotherStander]

F, I mean this in the friendliest spirit possible, but have you ever thought about taking a break from the boards? I think we all need a break now and then. You've been really hyper-focused on your sitch for a long time, and I think that when we come here and type out every convo we have with our WAS then we tend to overanalyze and give too much attention to the smallest things. Sometimes we need to just step back, take a break and just totally push our sitch out of our minds and maybe use that time to go hang out at the park with the kids, or walk the dog, or paint something, or clean up the garage, or just stare at clouds. Unclutter the mind if you will. I think if you just forced yourself to stay away from here for a week you might come back feeling like you have more clarity. Just a suggestion

[hotwheelsaust]

F, it is good that your W has started to challenge herself in regards to what she might be also doing wrong, rather than just the LBS doing wrong.
Have you thought of the option of allowing her friend to come along, simply for the reason that it is you making a change to suit her? I know you feel very strong about just the family, but sometimes is it worth how much arguing is going on?
Just my two cents worth.

[Fartiltre]

HWA,
Thanks, that’s in fact what I did yesterday - we are all, including friend and daughter going

AS,
I can certainly understand you posting this to me and I do see it as friendly and caring. I have had these thoughts myself but fact is that right now posting in here and thinking about sit makes me think about me and what I want. At the same time I get so much advice from board that I would be without. I see this as helping me. I might go over the top sometimes but I feel it helps me on my journey.
I will give your advice a second over Christmas!

Thanks!
F

[Fartiltre]

I had XW1 over for dinner yesterday. It was in fact a nice day. Relaxed and with good time with the kids. We talked about this and that but nothing deep.

Today W came by around 11.15AM and she would leave around 14.30 to catch a train. I did invite her to stay for dinner some days ago but she wanted to get to her family 3 hours away.

She arrived and we decorated the Christmas three all 5 together. Then we played a board game, had a little lunch. Then I started preparing the goose for tomorrow while W had a short videogame with children.
Neighbor came by uninvited for a Christmas beer and a hello – it was a totally nice day except for the fact that W would leave and the fact that we are not an item. As the time arrived tension builded up in W and in children. I told her to make good time for the goodbye and she nodded.
Children had made present for W and they told her to open them today. Then they asked if they could have her present and she asked me permission to give them. I told her that she would have to decide – no problem with me either way.
D6 started crying when she opened the present. It was a pyjamas but the colors or something was wrong. IMO she cried for a lot of other reasons – the pyjamas was just the thing that tipped it. W got disappointed and suddenly I had three sad girls in my hallway. D4 was screaming in W arms. D6 on the floor crying because of the present and W was just plain sad to look at. I stepped in and sat down by D6 and talked with her. She calmed down pretty fast and then W said “F, would you help out” with an angry voice. I said yes and took D4 to my arms – she was screaming!

W was running out of time and she was hurting. She had tears in her eyes while she hugged all very quickly and rushed to the car. I had D4 in my arms and we waved W of all 4 together.

She called an hour later and asked how things were.
I told her that they were OK, that I had bribed the children with a present.
She sounded so sad! She stated that it was hard for her to leave the children like that. Maybe I should just validate something like this but I told her, that it is also hard to stay with them.

Then I wished her a safe trip and a merry Christmas. I told her that she was welcome to call tomorrow and that I wouldnt force the kids to call her. Finally I told her that the way she had called for my help in the hallway wasn’t acceptable and that IMO we should find a sign or something like that. She agreed.

She sounded tearful and so broken when I hung up. She sounded like she wanted to talk more but I chose to finish the call.

Ds has been stating a lot of things after she ledt "why can't/won't she stay", "I would wish she still lived here", "I miss mom" and so on. It is hurtful, but I am getting much better at handling this.



Tomorrow is Christmas and I am ready, I am feeling good and I am looking forward to making this the best possible Christmas for the kids – that’s my mission the next two days.

Merry Christmas!

F

[Fartiltre]

W left some presents from the Ds to me in a bag when she left and when I put these under the tree few minutes ago I notice: A present from W to me!

I think I will give myself a small present: I will believe that what I have been seeing for the past weeks is not a worsening of my sit and while doing that I will keep working me.