Wife Left. 4 months into nightmare

[Not Over]

I have been reading this website and following some of your(members) situations for the last 3 months. I want to extend a big "Thank you" to everyone here. Without this website, I am sure my marriage would be in much worse shape than it already it is. Now, 4 months into my situation, I think I need some serious advice and help as to what my next actions should be. Here is my situation. Any help is very much appreciated.

My W and I have been married for 2 years, and together for 6. I have a step daughter who is 7. No kids together. I do understand why my w is unhappy in our marriage. It's typical male stupidity! I took her for granted, I did not love her with her love languages. I truly feel that I am the only blame in this situation. We had been going to MC since March of this year. Even after she was very clear with me as to what makes her happy and what makes her feel loved and appreciated, I did very little to fulfill these needs. My tiny brain was convinced that providing for her and SD was enough. If that is bad enough, how about this.....I have also been hiding a pain killer pill addiction for the last year. She found this out at the end of July. This was the straw that broke the camels back! She confronted me, we argued, she left for week. When she returned, a week before her family was to arrive for a one week stay, she was very cold and distant. We went to one MC session after the big blow up. I told her I would get help. I had scheduled a Doctor appointment to seek help. She was happy that I wanted to quit and get help but had expressed that this pill addiction was very minor as compared to the ways that I neglected her needs. She said she felt that I "fit her in my life". That I never put in effort to be romantic, she plans everything. That I never do little gift giving, like pick up her favorite ice cream and surprise her. That our daily routine rarely has quality time. I asked her in the session if she wanted me to be around when her family was arriving for their visit. She said she did. Once the family arrived she treated me like an outsider for the whole week. By the end of the week we had decided that we would separate while she moved 2200 miles away to take care of her mother, who's cancer has returned. We talked about it being maybe 3 to 6 months. But no set time limit was agreed upon. Of course I did everything I shouldn't have. I begged, pleaded, cried, bought her thoughtful gifts etc. I stopped taking the pills the week after her family left. My w was right there to take care of me and nurse me back to health. No rehab facility needed. By this time, we had already sent SD to live with grand ma. School was about to start. We had first decided that she would move at the end of September, but W was missing her D so much that she wanted to move sooner. We were fighting almost daily. I couldn't understand why all of the thoughtful things I was doing for her would get no positive responses. I wanted to believe that our separation had more to do with her mothers situation than it did our M. Then I found this site. 3 days before she left, I 180d and helped her get her stuff packed and ready for her 2200 mile drive. She even asked "hey what's with the 180". I told her that her needs are what is most important and that I wanted to support her through everything she was going through. The next few days were very pleasant. We talked and laughed and I felt like we really connected for the first time since the whole blow up. Our conversations seemed to always have some form of "when" she was coming back home, not "if". So the thought of her never coming home never entered my mind. August 31st, she left.

Here is where the EA, PA, or OM comes into play. She said she wanted to take her time and be alone for a few days before arriving at her moms. She also said she wanted to stop at her step moms house and visit a couple days as well. She was thinking she would take about 10 days. She told me that she didn't want her mom to know she left because her mom would call her everyday asking her how close she was. She just wanted some time to herself for a few days. I bought it, hook line and sinker. Instead of having her week of solitude driving across the country, she stopped about 600 miles from here to spend 2 1/2 weeks with her ex boyfriend from high school. How do I know? You guessed it. Snooping on the phone bill. I noticed a particular number that I have never seen before with lots of odd hour, and lengthy durations. This number just happened to show up the day after our big blow up. Yeah, that week she was gone....she was with him! When she returned, the volume of calls escalated further. One minute she is taking care of me, the next, she is calling him.

I was shocked. The last thing I expected was an A. Im not sure what type of A it is. I can only speculate. I found this out about 1 week into her trip when the time zones on the phone bill and the area codes of the numbers she was dialing weren't adding up. I mean who calls restaurants, nail salons, hair salons, etc. in China when you are in Africa? What was most disturbing, was the number of phone calls to a veterinarian office. We have 3 dogs, she took 2 with her. I thought something was seriously wrong with one them. I never called her out. As much as I wanted to, I held myself back! Listening to all of her lies was maddening! I know if I wouldn't have found this site, I probably would have drove up there. After all, with todays technology, I had names and addresses! But I held the old me down, and didn't give in. Instead, about a week into her visit with OM, I sent her a lengthy email validating her feelings, and expressing my desire to try again. Making sure she knew that the timing of it would be up to her with no pressure from me. She responded with a thank you, and a 2 hour call to her mother! How do I know? Yep...the phone bill! She started to call me more, text me more, and overall, be more interested in me. About a week later, she left OM and headed to her final destination. After 2+ plus weeks, she finally arrived at her mothers. What a relief I felt.

We had been speaking twice a day since she arrived at her mothers. Its been up and down. Some days she interested in me, and some she is not. Then one night, she texts me goodnight. I did not respond, but then get 3 phone calls at 2:30am. She asks me "hey, whats up with this charge on our bank account where you bought "attracting the opposite sex" information, I thought your email said you wanted to work on the marriage?" Of course I knew what she was talking about. I bought it the day I confirmed the OM. I bought it because I was hurting, and had a knee jerk reaction to coming to realization that she may not ever come back. I think it was a self preservation move. As much as I wanted to tell her exactly why I bought it, and ask her why she lied to me about where she spent those first two weeks, and demand to know what's going on, instead, I told her I bought it because I want our marriage to be the best it can be. That it was self help information to apply to our marriage in hope that she would always find me attractive....blah blah blah. I know she didn't believe me, and still doesn't. Interestingly, we had a 5 hour conversation.

This was our first R talk since she left. She expressed that she thought that I really did get it this time. That she thought I was willing to make some changes to make our M better. But because I have said that I would make these changes before, only to be disappointed, she is scared she will get hurt again. We even made plans for her to fly out for a visit. After this phone call, the next few weeks seem to go by uneventful. Some days we really connected on the phone, some days we didn't.

She is still speaking to OM, but only a couple of times per week, and not for very long. I have no idea as to what other ways they may be communicating or the frequency. When I think about it.... it drives me nuts. Im now ready for all of your 2x4s for snooping. It is so hard not to.

She came for her visit last Thursday. I probably went over board, but I wanted to 180 the "you're not romantic", "you never plan anything" complaints.

I picked her up at the airport with flowers and a card. She gave me a kiss and big hug. We held each other for a solid 40 seconds at least! I don't think either one of us wanted to let go! At least that is my interpretation of my mind reading. went out for dinner drinks and then went home. We cuddled and kissed in bed, but did not ML. The next morning, I tried to go further with her. Things got pretty hot, but she told me she wasn't ready. I told her I completely understood, and made her breakfast(another 180, I never cooked for her). We had a nice afternoon then went to comedy show in the evening. Here is where I almost blew the whole weekend.

After the show, we went to a friends house to visit. She would not stop texting. I decided to check the phone bill. I know...2x4 coming! I noticed that she had called OM just minutes before the comedy show, and now she wont put her phone down. She noticed I was upset, and asked me what was wrong. I said nothing, but she knows me and didn't buy it. I asked her who she was texting the whole time and she said her mom....and I said, and who else, I'm not stupid. I almost asked her about him, but I stopped myself. She said I was only upset about the texts because I didn't get my way in the morning when I wanted to ML. I wanted to tell her the real reason I was upset but I didn't. I let her believe whatever she had her head. We ended up cuddling and making out before we went to sleep.

The next day I had a very romantic trip planned. When we woke up I explained to her where I had made plans and if she didn't want to go, I would understand. I told her I did not want to pressure her into anything. She said she was excited to go! So we went.

We made the drive and a great afternoon. We shared a romantic dinner. Then had a couples massage in our hotel room. Later that evening, we did ML. It was amazing!

I took her to the airport the next morning. We hugged and kissed goodbye, I told her I loved her, she told me she loved me too. That was the first I love you from her since we have been separated.

Then 10 minutes later she called OM. And then called him again when she landed. At least she called me first! And I spoke to her for 5 minutes, he only spoke to her for 1 min. Im not sure why that matters, but I feel like im in a competition.

So now what? I feel like a should make myself less available for her, but Im the one who is always calling her. She always ends our phone calls with call me tomorrow or talk to you tomorrow. I love speaking to her, and she is still all I think about all day long. I miss her, my stepdaughter and my dogs. I want them to move back ASAP. Or at least give me a 100% yes we are coming home eventually. How can I move this needle in my direction?

Thanks everyone for reading. Any help is appreciated. If you need to ask questions please do.

ME 40
WAW 29
SD 7
no kids together
BD 8/17/13
W left 8/31/13

[Accuray]

Not Over, you are in a perilous position, but have fared much better than most. Good job on your self-restraint and DB'ing.

Your W is in a very serious EA (at least), and is drawing an intense amount of pleasure from the excitement, validation, and attention. You cannot compete with that. It has nothing to do with you versus OM, it's "an affair" versus "a long term relationship" and the second cannot compete with the first, even if he's Marty Feldman and you are George Clooney, the affair is simply more exciting, so viewing it as a competition you will only torture yourself.

So what to do?

I can guarantee you that if you confront her, you will make things worse between you. She will be angry, and any and all resentments toward you will be exacerbated.

If it does come to light or come up between you for any reason, your goal is to not increase her resentment. Your best bet is to normalize without condoning: "Everyone likes attention from the opposite sex, I'm sure you felt lonely and somewhat hopeless about our relationship." Any scolding, application of guilt, or displays of sadness will make her resent you more and drive you apart. It's a tough place to be.

Since she is still talking to you and has ML with you, she's clearly conflicted and may be cake eating, thinking she can keep both relationships going.

I would *strongly* encourage you to talk to a DB coach on this site since your situation is in such a fragile state right now, you will win this one on nuance. They are very good and they can help you.

Here's my near term advice:

1) Stop snooping, you now know what's going on. Continuing to watch the pot boil will only hurt you. It becomes addictive, and your imagination will make things much worse than they really are. Let that go, she's having an affair, you now know it.

2) Continue to give her space. This isn't going to be resolved by jousting OM for her favor. As long as he's involved, you pretty much have to acknowledge that she's going to do what she's going to do and you really can't control it. You should also set your own expectations that this isn't going to turn around quickly, you're looking at months and months, not weeks.

3) Decide what you want going forward.

4) Continue to be friendly and supportive, but at the same time GAL, Act as If, and continue with your 180's.

Read DR if you haven't.

Acc

[Not Over]

Thank you Acc for your reply and insight. The whole snooping issue is so hard to control.

Stop Snooping on phone bill

Tomorrow will be day 1 of not looking at the phone records. I will make this a goal. 30 days in a row and I will reward myself. A new suit sounds like a great reward!

Giving her space
We speak on the phone twice a day. Do you think that is too often? It's almost as if we are on a schedule as to when we talk, and what we talk about. It feels like Ground Hog Day. Always small talk as to how our days were. I try to always have something to tell her that we can share a laugh together. But some days she is so distant and uninterested. I guess that is why I feel like I want to change up this pattern. But I don't want to slide backwards and make the sitch worse. Selfishly, sometimes I feel like I get nothing even remotely satisfying through these conversations. I wonder if she is annoyed by them as well? I force myself not to let her know how much I am missing her. How much I love her and cant wait to see her again. Of course she already knows these things. I just want to hear her say it back! But I know not to put that pressure on her. But it's so hard not to hear "I love you" everyday. It's like speaking to a friend. I wander what would happen if I didn't call her for a whole 24 hours? Would it be positive or negative? With how things are now, do I even need to find out?

What do I want going forward
I want our family back together. I want another chance to love her through her love languages. I want to be my SDs Papa again. I suspect this isn't the context you are asking this question. Please elaborate.

Thanks again Acc.

Me 40
WAW 29
SD 7
no kids together
3 Dogs - I kept 1
BD 8/17/13
W left 8/31/13

[Not Over]

Journaling 11/20
I called W at usual time. She sounded very down and irritated. I asked her if she wanted to vent about her day. She said no, that she was just tired. We continued with our typical small talk, then the conversation turned to the weekend we just spent together. She told me she felt pressured and awkward in certain situations. She said she only ML to me because it was what I wanted, and she wasn't ready. Her expectation for the weekend was to have a serious talk about where we are at. A conversation which we would subsequently have on the phone tonight. I told her my goal and expectation for the weekend was to enjoy each other, have lot's of fun, and hopefully remind her, us, of how great we are together. I told her I didn't feel it was my place to bring up the R. That I thought if she wanted to talk about it, she should have said something. That I would talk about it whenever she wanted to. She then brought up all the ways I have hurt her over the years by neglecting her needs, by hiding money and my pill addiction from her. She talked about a specific time when I told her that I would never be able to make her happy and she should probably find someone else. In hindsight, I remember this conversation and cringe at the total moron I was to say such a thing. I listened. I validated. I told there isn't enough apologies in the world I can say to her to take her pain away. That I completely understand the hurt she is feeling. She said she didn't know if she can ever give us another chance. That she is scared that I will just hurt her again,and things will go back to the way they were. I told her that I don't want the same M. That I want to show her with actions that I can be the H she deserves, that words are words. But I cant show her with her being so far away. She said she is confused. She doesn't know what to do. She feels like she is in limbo. She is feeling like she left a bad situation and went to a worse one.

Not only is she dealing with her mother and the cancer, but her mother also is a hoarder. My W has taken it upon herself to take care of this. This is no joke. She has sent me pictures. She is so overwhelmed. She cried and told me how confused she was. She said this was the first time she has cried since she left. I told her she really has two choices. A decision that does not need to be made on anyone's time but her own. These choices are: 1. Take care of what you feel you need to regarding the hoard, and your mom. Make a decision to move on from our M. And live a new life. I told her how strong of a woman she is. She has never NEEDED me or anyone else. That she can take care of herself, one of the many reasons why I fell in love with her.

2. Take care of what you feel you need to regarding the hoard, and your mom. Make a decision and leap of faith to give us another chance and come home, or let me know where she would like to relocate and I would join her.

I told her that in either case, we would both be fine.
2 hours later, we said good night and she asked me to call her tomorrow.

Any thoughts?

[SM34]

I'm not sure how you worded the two choices conersation to her, but it could easily have come across as controlling or presumptious, or condescending. I think you should stay away from telling her what her options are.

For a start, women don't like it when their man tries to 'fix' their problems and any attempts to offer solutions can be condenscending to them.

Secondly, she needs to work through her problems on her own and come up with what she wants out of her life. She is very aware of her options, infact there are most likely some options in her head that you haven't even considered!! What about option three, she doesn't help her mom OR come back to you because she is tired of helping everyone and being everyone's comforter? Have you considered that? She probably has!

I think in staying with the true DB spirit, I would suggest you focus on 'showing' her the options not 'telling' her them......

So on one side you stop helping her move forward with her plans and stop being there for her when she needs reassurances that she will be fine...

On the other hand, show her a man she would want to be with. A man with dreams and ambitions who is going somewhere. A man who knows how to have fun but also knows when to get things done. Thats what a woman needs and likes.

By framing the choices you gave her, you were actualluly giving her a choice between leaving you, and returning to the exact same marriage she fled from. I think you know which option wins that decision.

[Not Over]

Tonight she told me she doesn't see herself ever loving me again. At least I know, time to move on. She is 2200 miles away. I'm going dark except for anything that has to do with step daughter. I think her mind has been made up since early August. I find it odd that Im not angry, upset, etc ..... maybe it hasn't set in yet.

[dbmod]

I think you are doing the right thing whether or not your wife officially returns. I hope you. Have a great connection to your stepdaughter. If you'd like moderator or administrator opinion/intervention please click 'notify moderator'

[Not Over]

W and I spoke last night. She said she doesn't think she can ever feel the same about me. I'm going dark, except for SD. I miss her so much. If W ever changes her mind, she can let me know.

Fade!

[Not Over]

W sent me an email last night. It basically reiterated how hard she tried to make the marriage work before the pill addiction fiasco. She said that was too much for her to handled and she is broken.

" Finding out about the money and pills was more than I had the strength to handle. I was completely and utterly broken. The man I had married and pledged my life to was not only not making a true effort to be honest with me, but he was also hiding copious amounts of money and nursing a serious addiction. I truly believe that if you had come to me with this, I would have been thrilled that you trusted me enough to help you and things would be different now. I tried my hardest over the last few months to muster up the courage to try all this again, but my heart just wasn't in it."

So there you have it folks. I ruined my marriage over a drug addiction. I know that wasn't the only factor, but that was the moment in time that I wish I could go back to you and trust her and let her in. I feel like a big piece of crap. She did say she wants me to continue relationship with Sd.

I texted her and let her know I got her email. I have not responded to it. Should I.
I haven't called her since our last phone conversation when she let me know she couldn't give us another chance and let me know her decision. That was Thursday. She texted me yesterday asking me if I was ok. I responded with a simple "yes". Then she asked me questions about what I did and where I went. I answered with one word answers and never asked her any questions. Then last night she sends me a text saying she sent me her email.

I think I should go dark and only communicate regarding step daughter?
How can I DB when she is 2200 miles away?
Should I email her back?
Should I call her out about her 2 week visit with EA or OM or whatever that is?

[AnotherStander]

I told her my goal and expectation for the weekend was to enjoy each other, have lot's of fun, and hopefully remind her, us, of how great we are together.

She doesn't care what your goal is. YOU need to care what HER goals, feelings, thoughts and expectations are. Quit making things about you.

I told her I didn't feel it was my place to bring up the R. That I thought if she wanted to talk about it, she should have said something.

It is your place to LISTEN to her and VALIDATE her. Quit telling her what your rules are! You are correct that you should avoid R convo's unless she initiates, but don't tell her that's what you're doing!

I listened. I validated. I told there isn't enough apologies in the world I can say to her to take her pain away. That I completely understand the hurt she is feeling.

Do not ever tell her you understand her feelings (hurt), because you absolutely do not and she doesn't believe you do. When you say something like that she'll see it as condescending. Validating is saying you understand WHY she feels that way, not that you understand HOW she feels. It may seem like a small distinction but it's not.

That she is scared that I will just hurt her again,and things will go back to the way they were. I told her that I don't want the same M. That I want to show her with actions that I can be the H she deserves, that words are words. But I cant show her with her being so far away.

OK, well it's good that you said you want a new M and not the old one. But don't tell her you're changing for her, you are changing for you. If you tell her you're changing for her then she'll just see it as tricks to get her back after which you'll revert to old habits.

I told her she really has two choices.

Oh crap. Well before even reading SM34's response, I thought the same thing he did- this is controlling and manipulative behavior. As he said, it's not your job to fix her. LISTEN and VALIDATE. That's it. Don't fall back into old habits (fixit mode).

Your sitch is still really young, so settle in, this is a marathon, not a sprint. I get the sense you're trying to push things along and are getting impatient that it's not happening on your timeline. You need to remember that this is HER timeline and you CANNOT speed her along her journey. She's going to take whatever time she needs. It's your job to back off and give her that time.