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Thanks for stopping by ces67.

Both are incredibly tough spots to be in.

Guess I was feeling a little down yesterday and struggling with W still seeming to be in the same spot – not happy with where things are at, but not unhappy enough or in enough pain to leave. Ideally I would like for her to figure out a way to engage w/the family and M and also be at peace with who she is an individual.

Unfortunately so far she doesn’t seem to have figured out a way to find that balance. I don’t feel that the two have to be mutually exclusive - and I am doing much better at realizing that there is nothing I can say or do to solve that for her.

I think I am getting to a place where I really want her to be happy – regardless of what the means for the M. I just don’t want the boys and I to have to experience the pain associated with her physically leaving if that’s what she chooses to do.

And I don’t think in the long run that leaving will fix everything and create a sudden sense of happiness for her – my sense is that the issues to be worked thru are much deeper than that.

Btw, at the same time that I am feeling that I want to scream loudly to her something like “either get on board or get gone” I also feel guilty for even feeling that way. Very confusing???

So instead of doing that I usually come her to post instead…….


Me-48,W-51
M-22,T-24
S- 18,16,9
Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date
Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch
Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only
Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
Joined: Dec 2011
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I get every bit of at. I also remember needing reminded that I cannot have expectations of W doing something for herself. It is hard because it's easy to see what will help from the outside and I often have wondered why my W won't deal with her issues. For me, I learned pushing doesn't help, and it seems you've figured that out too. That does leaves in a spot of questioning where we want to be - continue in a 1- sided marriage or face a D? Personally, I don't like either option.

Regardless of the choice, it's an ongoing effort to find personal peace and let go of the frustrations...which this board helps with a lot. Do you have any friends that you do stuff with or know your sitch? The boards are great but so is having a buddy to go do something with.


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 598
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Here is an interesting one that I don’t think I have run across anywhere……

W constantly leaves her phone places and then lets everyone know that she is “searching” for it – multiple times a night in some cases. I used to help and try to get the boys to help also but have stopped doing that lately. In some ways it started to feel to to me like the toddler who constantly “drops” their toys and expects the adult to pick it up for them……

Last night she made statement something to the effect of “…. if I didn’t know better I would say that someone is hiding my phone on purpose to make me think that I am crazy” Very much w/tone and body language that implied that she was directing the comment to me. Drank a big ‘ol glass of STFU – didn’t think the comment was even worth responding but really????? Come on.

Guess where she ended up finding the phone…….. in the console of her car where she had left it!

Is this just an attempt to get attention, trying to provoke an argument w/me, is she truly losing it that much??

“The world may never know” - old tootsie pop commercial reference.


Me-48,W-51
M-22,T-24
S- 18,16,9
Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date
Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch
Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only
Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
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SF, your post seems is all about what your W could do to improve the situation.

Have you done everything you can to improve you? I know you've done some self-reflection and see ways things could have been improved but is there more?

If you're done, you can always pull the trigger. Don't wait for her to do that for you.

(this from my thread)
Quote:
To me some of the things above speak about love (i.e. companionship, life partner, physical connection) but maybe I am missing something from your ?. Given what I know now, I would certainly expect to be more aware of the conflict and would handle it differently.
You can have these things, companionship, life partner, physical connection and not love the person you're with. Love should never be implied. Nor should anger or pain or frustration. A relationship should be strong enough to hold all those emotions.

You're a very controlled guy, or that's the impression I get from your posting. I could be very wrong. When was the last time you were angry? I don't mean the acting out of anger, I mean you felt anger, let yourself feel it, allowed it to cool and went to the other person and said "Let's talk."

It took me a long time to learn that anger isn't the problem it's how we express it that can be the problem. It's even more of a problem when we express it by withdrawing.

How do you deal with anger and your sons?

You mentioned your parent's R and how that has shaped your fear of conflict. We all get shaped by our parent's R but once we realize that, the ball is in our court to change the negative parts of that programming. How are you doing that?

You also mentioned a time when your son found mom crying in the laundry room and you both guessed at what she was crying about but no one asked. That was very sad to me, that we sometimes see people, people we love, in distress and we just walk away.

Just being able to empathize "You're crying, is there anything I can do?" is sometimes all that's needed.

Now I get it that she might have said, "oh, nothing. I'm fine." But that's on her. She gets to decide whether she needs help but it doesn't mean the action isn't necessary or appreciated.

i don't expect you to do that at this stage of your R but it might be something to think about for the future and share with your sons. Remember, they're learning from you, just like you learned from your Dad. How do you see his role in his R with your mother?

It's taken me a long time to be able to look at my parent's R with objectivity. I use to see my Dad as the White Knight and my mom as the source of all the problems. She was what she was and he was what he was. Sometimes the quiet one looks like the hero. Not always true.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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Random thoughts that I am typing out. Sometimes typing them out increases my ability to focus on other things….

- Going to see therapist recommended by pastor. Sched for 07/03 (earliest appt he had) and @ some level I think I am looking at this as a last ditch effort for someone to help me understand why/how to keep hanging on. It was interesting after a 10-15 min intro/background phone conversation he indicated that he believes W is like a little girl who is growing up and “growing against me”. Maybe even views me in some ways as a father type figure…… He said in the interim try to stay focused on - When she says or does things that are hurtful, try to see her and not the actions

- What has happened over past 3 years or so I think in some ways has made me stronger and realize that I could get along without her. Not that I want that but certainly could make it….

- Is it wrong to say to your S that you want to be in a loving, engaging and meaningful R? Of course the answer is not at all, just not when they are WAS because it would likely be viewed as pressure.

Labug and CES, will come back after lunch and respond to your posts. Thanks for your interest.


Me-48,W-51
M-22,T-24
S- 18,16,9
Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date
Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch
Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only
Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 598
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Originally Posted By: ces67
I get every bit of at. I also remember needing reminded that I cannot have expectations of W doing something for herself. It is hard because it's easy to see what will help from the outside and I often have wondered why my W won't deal with her issues. For me, I learned pushing doesn't help, and it seems you've figured that out too. That does leaves in a spot of questioning where we want to be - continue in a 1- sided marriage or face a D? Personally, I don't like either option.

Agreed - took me a while but I learned that pushing (initially I viewed it as suggestions on how to make things better - i.e. solve the problem for her) in these particular scenarios does nothing but further entrench the WAS perspective and desire to leave.

Still wonder on occasion why W won't deal with her issues - but that happens less and less these days. And I suppose on some level the same could be said for me, why can't I just deal with the fact she won't/can't deal with her issues right now.......

Both choices (remain in 1-sided R or choose D) su$k!

Originally Posted By: ces67
Regardless of the choice, it's an ongoing effort to find personal peace and let go of the frustrations...which this board helps with a lot. Do you have any friends that you do stuff with or know your sitch? The boards are great but so is having a buddy to go do something with.

The peace and letting go of frustration comes easier these days and in some cases is replace with a profound sense of sadness of how much better things could (and eventually will) be.

I do have friends that I do things with occasionally but to be honest what I enjoying most is spending time with my kids and prior to this scenario w/W. Most of the things that I did were either family or couple oriented - and I was really ok with that during that point of my life. I enjoyed it and it seemed like what I wanted to be doing and who I wanted to be.

W on occasion would even encourage me to do more "with the guys" but I didn't want to take time away from her and the kids. At the time I partially felt that W was saying this to alleviate some guilt she was feeling in wanting to do things with her girlfriends but maybe there was something more to it.

I suppose this is all normal given the scenarios we find ourselves in but man, why does it have to be so difficult!


Me-48,W-51
M-22,T-24
S- 18,16,9
Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date
Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch
Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only
Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,030
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"I do have friends that I do things with occasionally but to be honest what I enjoying most is spending time with my kids and prior to this scenario w/W. Most of the things that I did were either family or couple oriented - and I was really ok with that during that point of my life. I enjoyed it and it seemed like what I wanted to be doing and who I wanted to be."

Wow, I'm pretty sure somewhere in the past 4 years, I've typed almost this exact same paragraph. My time was always for the family and my W was my best friend. There were even points in time that if I was developing a friendship that I experienced guilt because it felt like I was trying to replace my W because my needs weren't being met and so I resisted.

So fast forward a bit. You're kids are young now and its great to invest the time with them. Remember that you are also setting an example. Having healthy friendships with other guys is an important example to set for them as well. When they get older and are running around with their friends, who will you spend time with? We all need some form of companionship. I've convinced we're built for that.

I took a leap of faith a few years ago. We had just moved to a new state when the bomb dropped. I didn't really know anybody. A few things lined up and I took the risk of sharing my sitch with a guy I met at church. That has turned into a great friendship that has been both fun and a great source of support during some of the rough patches.

Just stuff to think about.


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
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Originally Posted By: SemperFi00

I do have friends that I do things with occasionally but to be honest what I enjoying most is spending time with my kids and prior to this scenario w/W. Most of the things that I did were either family or couple oriented - and I was really ok with that during that point of my life. I enjoyed it and it seemed like what I wanted to be doing and who I wanted to be.

W on occasion would even encourage me to do more "with the guys" but I didn't want to take time away from her and the kids. At the time I partially felt that W was saying this to alleviate some guilt she was feeling in wanting to do things with her girlfriends but maybe there was something more to it.


Funny, this is EXACTLY how it was/is for me. And I think there is something more to it than guilt (if "guilt" is even the right word, which I'm not sure it is). I think there is something attractive to women about a man who still maintains some of his own "space"...his own thing. Obviously a person could take that too far and would be little more than a selfish lout who doesn't give enough time to his W and kids...but in moderation, in small doses...I think a lot of women like their man to maintain at least some small measure of his own life/independence. Or at the very least, that's how my W has made it clear she feels, even if it has to cut into some of our family time.


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
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Everyone, male or female, is more attractive when they have outside interests, things they are passionate about. It puts a lot of pressure on a marriage when partners don't do things apart from one another.

SF, good for you on the therapist try to have no expectation about where it will lead. Beginner's mind.

This "W on occasion would even encourage me to do more "with the guys" but I didn't want to take time away from her and the kids. At the time I partially felt that W was saying this to alleviate some guilt she was feeling in wanting to do things with her girlfriends but maybe there was something more to it." You're an interesting guy, SF. smile Guilt is a controlling influence in the lives of most women. You saw the Brene Brown video, shame and guilt are huge. I'm sure it is with some men, too. I think I mentioned the book The Dance of Anger to you, did you ever get a chance to look at it?

My H and I had similar discussions because our R roles were similar, I liked to go out and have a good time on occasion, he could sit home pretty much forever it seemed. I had friends and interests outside the marriage, him-not so much. It was a source of stress for a long time. My H and my marriage, were pretty boring.

Things have changed now, being out of the M for 3 years, he developed some other interests, like learning to play guitar! We ride bikes together and he's turned into a pretty awesome bike mechanic. He's also more apt to say, "Hey, lets do something fun this weekend" or "lets go to this new place for dinner." Things he never did before and what a difference it makes.

This is an interesting discussion.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
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One more thought, the kids can't be the center of the marriage, the H and W have to be at the center of the marriage.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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