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#2377574 08/19/13 01:47 PM
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KattK Offline OP
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I'm new to this site and in need of advice (aren't we all?).

I'm dealing with a Taurus male. Yes, he fits the astrological profile to a T. Loves to help others, hates last minute changes (not very flexible there), decisive, HATES any comment that could in any way (within his own head) be construed as if he is wrong. Once he makes a decision it's almost impossible for him to admit it may not have been the right one.

On top of that, ALL of his family, parents, brother & two sisters have ALL been divorced, some more than once. It's kind of the throw away spouse society. We were together for 23 years and always joked that we were the couple that represented the part of the statistic of marriages that stayed intact. So the advice he's been given from all of them is "Oh, you deserve to be happy, move on, it's not worth working on your marriage,..." Needless to say, he's surrounded by pessimism. Of all of the couples the two of us survived the longest. Something was working and I know we can get that back if he's ever willing to try.

I've been reading a lot about MLC and just found the post that listed out in detail the stages and it really hit home with me. I didn't have much time when I was skimming through it but I could identify with things my H had said so I printed it off, two days later I re-read it and was shocked to see that I was identifying with things I myself had gone through. This explained and validated so much about the change in our relationship it left me both with a renewed sense of a glimmer of hope and also a bit of confusion knowing now it was more than a double edged sword I had aimed at my chest, it was more lethal.

I had my "awakening" on Sunday, January 13th, 2013 when he called me and told me he was not coming home. We had been out shopping the day before and he had been fine, even commented that he had a great day because he had spent it with his wife. Sunday morning he wouldn’t interact with me, he was cold and distant, was harsh in his tone when he spoke to me. Wouldn't even let me sit with him on the couch, so I did my own thing trying to not let his mood bring down my mood. He later admitted that the night after he left, Monday, he had been intimate with another woman. This led me to believe this may have been an ongoing thing for awhile for him either emotionally or physically, none the less it is what it is. He's been seriously seeing another woman since he left (he won't confirm if she is the same woman from "that night" or not and at this point its really irrelevant). He also has bought a house which when he first said he was interested in buying it he told me that if we reconcile it could be rented out.

I've been GAL & have come a long way. He's seen the changes in me and has been surprised by them and impressed with all I have done but still claims he's not coming home. He knows I'm still more than willing to fight for this. I'm doing all I can to not look desperate for him to change his mind, it's the hardest thing that I have ever done. I hate holding back my feelings when I talk to him. I can't do no contact because of the children, and I've been struggling with keeping the conversations only about them. I know I have to improve there.

If he is in the middle of a MLC, which I'm convinced he is, do I tell him that I think that he is and show him the article about the stages? I don't want to set him back, but I feel that if he could read it that may strike home with him as it did with me in identifying and validating what I've gone through. If he can see it within himself maybe he'd come around in his outlook about our M if he feels validated by knowing it's a process that a large part of the population transitions through.

Any advice here from people that have been through this and survived it would be appreciated. If he feels pushed in any way he pulls back even further so I can't afford to make any wrong moves here. Backwards is not an option. I need my family intact.


There is no pain, you are receding
A distant ship smoke on the horizon
You are only coming through in waves
Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying

I have become comfortably numb
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Just to add a little more detail to my story so you can get the full picture:

He has had problems with his back ever since I've known him, 23 years. He claimed that if he spent more than 2 nights in our bed his back ached for days afterwards, so he's been spending the majority of the past 15 years on the couch. We have bought 2 beds, neither of them were comfortable for him. He wouldn't buy another. This extinguished our emotional intimacy as well as pretty much killed the physical side also. If a woman doesn't feel emotionally connected to her H, she's just not interested in being intimate. That bonding is not there, it just becomes empty sex. (the day after "those encounters" he was always short tempered with me again because he had gotten what he wanted and no longer had a "need" for me.) I believe that was more than likely the root cause for me pulling away emotionally from him. I felt like he only wanted me for two purposes, the other was cleaning the house. That, in turn, only validated his "need" to pull away from me. He was hostile for no real reason other than he was no longer able to control what I did and when.

The house always ran by HIS schedule, if he was working on a project and I tried to get him to come up for air to spend time with me and the children he would get short tempered with me for trying to control his time. I had not gotten a life outside of our M because I wanted to be available to be with him the moment he had time for us (while the kids were little I had to watch them when he was busy anyway). Conversely, when there was a family get together (his side) the children and I were always made to go, even if it would keep the kids from having their naps. This left me with an overtired toddler in my arms, crying and flailing because they were in an environment where they could not sleep while he was having a great time with his family. Not even sitting with us, or giving a rats a$$ about the screaming child in my arms. Any of you who have had this situation know that once you go too far past nap time you can pretty much kiss the rest of your day goodbye. That child will not be anywhere near the point of being consoled for hours and hours. They get so tired they work themselves up to total blowout frustration they just can't relax no matter what you do.

He did everything he could to provide for us, fixing the house, the cars, we both worked full time (and then some). He was doing everything right as far as THINGS go, but not as far as our M went. That needed attention too, but he never saw or felt that without taking time to tend to our R it would suffer.

He pushed me away from parenting my children, he would get angry with me if I spoke to them about homework, etc. telling me "I'm handling it." and holding his hand up at me to keep me away. If I went to them after he spoke to them he would get all gruff and abrasive and verbally abusive towards me. It was not a 50/50 partnership. He ran the show. Now I ask myself, how much of that was MLC related and how much was just his personality.

He has issues to work through that I don't honestly think he ever will. At this point I just want him to at least see what happened, he seems to be blind to any contribution he made to this mess. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. He was pushing that pendulum as much as I was. He was projecting onto me for a long, long time and I just accepted full blame thinking that it would diffuse his anger, but I now believe that if I had stood up for myself he would have to face the truth eventually, all of it. Instead I left him justified in his actions for leaving us. It seems he's off the hook because I claimed it was all me. He'll never look inward or turn that mirror on himself.

He has said it was time for him now. He was done doing everything for others. He gets to be a part time dad, on his own schedule. I'm putting my foot down there and standing my ground when its my week. His family plans mean nothing to me. Too bad they fall on MY time. It was his decision to not be part of our daily lives, not mine. He claims he left me, not them. They live with me though, so he has to deal with the fallout.

Now, ...we're talking without accusations. He seems to have let go of his anger. He went from a man who would not come and help when the washing machine blew a hose leaving me with Niagra Falls pouring through my dining room ceiling to a man who now makes suggestions that maybe a light is a bit old and needs to be replaced & fixes the stove, etc. His words "I don't care anymore, it's not my house now." seem to have faded off into the distance. But I know even though he does care, he more than likely won't come back. What really gets me is he's doing things I've asked him to for YEARS. Cutting back on video games, trying to quite smoking. The new GF gets the man that is new and improved while I suffered through endless hours and hours of zombie killing & car chasing & begging him to stay healthy so he could be by my side at retirement age. I just want him to see it. He can't right now, maybe never will.


There is no pain, you are receding
A distant ship smoke on the horizon
You are only coming through in waves
Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying

I have become comfortably numb
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Please do not share anything w/him that you've found concerning mlc at this time. He will deny that he's in mlc and will resent you for pointing it out. Also, the stages are a reference tool only...the length of times mentioned in the stages will vary, just as the bouncing back and forth in the stages. Each mlc is different because of the personalities, childhood issues and copying skills. Some have mild mlcs and others are truly nasty somebodies.

Read all you can and give him plenty of space and time to figure things out. While he's a passenger on the Mother Ship, this is the perfect time for you to rediscover some of those h hobbies or projects that you've put on the back burner. It is a time to learn more about yourself and get out in the world and meet new friends and do some things that you've wanted to do, but never had time for. This is not a journey for the faint of heart. It is not a sprint, but a very long marathon.

Continue to post and be sure to ask questions along the way.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Have you read DB or DR yet? Do so right away. You've come to the right place to help you out. We all know exactly how you feel.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Welcome to this board.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)

I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This is my ultra brand new and improved list of links.

I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956

The link for the resources:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1539436

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Doormat tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...444#Post1942444

Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Why they run:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=67406&page=1

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...6668#Post526668

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=714209

Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741

Odds and Ends of MLC(new from Delboy)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=656357#Post656357

MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869

The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

The stages of MLC as rewritten by HB from Jim Conway are a template
which can only be laid over an MLCer's experience retrospectively.
It's impossible to see the pattern until it has finished being laid or the crisis is complete.(nickel Cyrena).
So do not be too concerned where your MLC'er is in this process.
(Although my general guess is that they are in REPLAY)

Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!

Believe none of what he says and 50% of what he does.

I would not ask him anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H as controlling or pressure.

Lets not worry about her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.

Detach the single most important thing to DO.


Your H has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely

Knowledge is Power


Me-70, D37,S36
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KattK, if I read your sitch correctly, he moved out in January? What have you been doing all this time? Also, you kids? How many and how old? Does he interact with them?

My impression is that the marriage had quite a few problems beyond any MLC.

You cannot change your H, but you can change yourself. This is important to recognize because what you wrote seems to suggest all the problems with him. What about with you? -- this is tough medicine since he is the one who left, but it is important to look at yourself and see how you can be a better spouse (to him or the next person), and a better person in general. Figure that out, and work on it.

Also, get out of the house and do social things that take your mind off of H and marriage problems.


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Thank you all for your helpful advice.

W(me)) 44 - H: 46 - T:23 - M: 19 1/2 Before he left (Now 20)
D:20 S:15

During the M we were a great team, as long as he was not frustrated with how our home improvement projects seem to take longer than expected or hit unforeseen snags we were actually having fun renovating an old farmhouse. We always showered together, during the demo phase we'd laugh at how black the water was and how many splinters we had & how physically exhausting it could be.

We used to, what I call, tag team while cooking supper. He would start the meat, I'd start everything else,.. he may come in and check on vegetables if I was in another room,... etc. When he was in the WE mindset, which eventually faded away, we did very well.

Our goals in life and beliefs are identical. We want the same things (with the exception of how detailed the trim work in the house should be, so I took all of that on myself).

He's not all that good with budgeting or retirement planning, so he did hand that over to me, and because he did, he was on track to be able to retire at 59. He's worked so hard over the years I so wanted that to be able to happen for him.

From the beginning though, on every subject, he would get deeply aggravated and argumentative if he was not "allowed" to be the one to make the final decisions on anything and everything. So, I learned to pick my battles and I held back. I would make suggestions, back them up with my reasoning as to why I felt that way then let the chips fall where they may. This worked against me. The more power I gave him, the more controlling he became over the years.

He would even hold his hand up to my face whenever I was trying to talk to the children WITH him (about homework, or cleaning their rooms, etc). I was not allowed to parent my own children,... REALLY?????

My daughter spends a great deal of her time tucked away in her room. I tried to pull her out of there any way I could, but it's like trying to get a turtle out of its shell. She'd play some video games with my H and S on occasion, but mostly just kept to herself. When my H was in the garage and unavailable (for entire evenings) my S would be playing games (when not doing homework) and it was impossible to pull him away without a fight. Fights with him are not a one parent situation. My H would often say "why is it such a big deal anyway, let him play." My H uses the games to de-stress, so I think he felt my S did too.

I basically felt so alone while surrounded by my own family.
I felt rejected and very much unneeded. I pulled back from him, resenting my new found place as being simply the maid. I found friends online and spent far too much time there. I was not getting the support and emotional connection from him, or even my C, but people online could validate my feelings and show that they cared. They let me know that I was valued, intelligent and worth being treated that way. He was no longer treating me that way and I desperately needed that, especially from him. I ended up in an emotional affair with someone I'll never meet in person which was the only solace in my life for a majority of the time the past 3 years. It allowed me to mentally distance myself from the pain and disappointment within my household.

We had it all on track, we did, it worked then it crashed and burned. I heard the engines failing but believed we may land a little rough in a field or on the water, I never saw the side of the mountain approaching, the MLC fog was too thick.

We both wanted this to work, but at different times. Multiple times we'd go to each-other, but not when the other person was willing to give up their pride & look like the "bad guy". I'd come up for air & try to work on my M, but he would not be in the same mindset, he'd in turn try to get me to come up for air (counseling), but I wouldn't be in the same mindset. I was in MLC myself, reassessing where I was, asking myself if that was what I wanted for the rest of my life. Under the impression it would never really be 50/50. I felt like I had lost "ME" and as long as he was in my life I wouldn't truly be me 100%. BUT, I also had a vision of what life would be like when the children moved out (only a few years from now), retirement, the golden road we had paved was still there. (The house is paid off, the cars are paid off, we're debt free.) When we could just be us again, no more huge projects or homework undone, I really thought we'd reconnect like we had in the beginning, then there would be time for him, for me, and for us. I thought if I got back 80% of me that would be enough. After-all M is a partnership, each gives of themselves and compromises.

Since he left (January 13th, 2013) I went through some serious depression. Now, I'm working on the house, baking, painting (will be taking water color & oil classes this fall and over the winter), I've met someone in a similar situation and have been getting out hiking etc.

After I read about the MLC phases I started to wonder if his change from the WE mindset to the ME mindset may have been MLC related. He said to me after he left, "I don't want to be doing things for other people anymore, I want to do things for me for a change."

He does interact with the kids but mostly on a limited basis. It will be worse when school starts back up and homework comes back into the picture. Weekends will not be free for my S. He's trying to connect up a Skype account so he can work with my son on homework without having to come here (15 miles away). I really don't think it will be as good as having him here. I can work with my son on my own, you need to kind of stand over his shoulder half the time. If you take your eyes off of him he gets distracted. I think the Skype account is just another way for him to distance himself.


There is no pain, you are receding
A distant ship smoke on the horizon
You are only coming through in waves
Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying

I have become comfortably numb
Joined: Aug 2013
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KattK Offline OP
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What works best, going dark as far as informing the WAH about the children's lives or filling them in on whats going on? Which is more apt to make them want to be home?


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