Emotional Connection and Attraction

[AnotherStander]

Sounds like a great talk, you did a good job of listening and validating. She is not at nearly the place on her journey as you are on yours and that is going to be a struggle for quite a while. She is still not fully invested in reconciling it doesn't sound like.

[MrBond]

The talk was good. It sounds like your W still doesn't get it that the "in love" or "passionate" feelings don't come automatically back unless you actually DO SOMETHING about it. Your W is just standing there waiting for the feelings to come back. They won't unless she actually initiates change.

The fact that she said that she didn't feel like she would miss you is a big sign. Maybe it's time to do something different. Have you done anything to incite any passion in her?

[etc]

BC, that all was actually pretty amazing and inspiring to me. Thank you for sharing the "transcript." One thing that stood out to me was:

I will fight to the death for this family, but my love isn't unconditional. If you do what you did (EA) again, I'm gone. If you refuse to work on this M long term or treat me poorly etc, I'm gone.

Way to set a boundary. I'm still working on this and haven't been able to figure out exactly what my boundaries are. At this point, I'm willing to put up with quite a lot. This makes me wonder if I'm too much of a doormat... Thanks again for sharing. You handled everything really well IMHO.

ETC

[completelylost]

BC, that all was actually pretty amazing and inspiring to me. Thank you for sharing the "transcript." One thing that stood out to me was:

I concur...

[QUOTE] I will fight to the death for this family, but my love isn't unconditional. If you do what you did (EA) again, I'm gone. If you refuse to work on this M long term or treat me poorly etc, I'm gone.

Love your wife unconditionally! That doesn't mean be a whpping post it just means you're mature and stable enough to love her as Christ intructed us to love our wives. You can do that and still set boundries. But that was a great way to get some positive energy in your home the laughter is great for that.

[adinva]

In my opinion, you can love someone and leave them. It is not a loving act to allow someone to abuse you and treat you poorly. Setting a healthy boundary, taking good care of yourself, and ending the relationship if necessary ... to me is an act of love for both of you.

[Accuray]

Well that was a nice honest conversation!

Good listening, validation, sex, laughter, smiles and honesty = GOOD

Wanting to crave someone and not craving you, being okay if you leave = NOT SO GOOD

I went through something similar with the "I'm not in love with you" discussion during piecing.

My controversial advice to you is that the fastest way back to a good relationship with your wife is to separate at this point, and then while separated really let her miss you, which is to say "don't pursue".

That will give her time to work through her feelings while at the same time exposing her to what she's giving up and what life is like living by herself.

I KNOW that's stepping off a cliff, has financial implications, is bad for the kids, etc. etc., but I *honestly* believe that is the fastest way back together again. The risk, of course, is that while separated she starts dating someone else, gets those "craving" feelings, and it reinforces her beliefs for the next few years until those feelings for the new guy wear off. That could happen, but I would say the chances are very slight.

The other path is simply time and patience. Over time your relationship will establish a new balance point where you're no longer living in "issue land" and will both once again be able to relax. That will happen.

The risk there is that it's going to be very painful for you in the near term, will be hard on her, and in the end you may well not end up with the marriage you want.

You may not get the intimacy you want, you may not get the love you want, but if things are marginally better than they are now, it's going to be *even harder* to leave it. If you can't make peace with it, it will be "death by 1,000 cuts", your resentment will build, and eventually you'll be the WAS.

She may have an epiphany and get over how she's feeling, or just organically decide to do things differently, but we all know that people don't change without motivation. As long as she doesn't fear losing you and feels you are firmly entrenched in the marriage and willing to fight for it, there's no motivation to do anything differently, so you may well end up in limbo for a long time.

I will say this again and I don't know how to make it sink in -- if you are skeptical that she will step up for the relationship *you* want longer term, *now* is the time to separate. Right now is the easiest time to go.

As time passes, deciding to separate will be harder and harder.

I guess it's your move.

Acc

[BC39]

Thanks everyone

It sounds like your W still doesn't get it that the "in love" or "passionate" feelings don't come automatically back unless you actually DO SOMETHING about it. Your W is just standing there waiting for the feelings to come back. They won't unless she actually initiates change.

I've told her this a couple times now.

The fact that she said that she didn't feel like she would miss you is a big sign.

Yes, this is obviously the most concerning part of the convo for me. I may need to clarify with W again as she has a very hard time expressing herself, especially when she's emotional. We've never had the opportunity to even feel what its like missing each other in our R.

I'm hoping she meant she'd thought she'd be fine on her own. I can't remember her exact wording she used after she said "I don't think so" when I asked if she feared losing me.

Maybe it's time to do something different. Have you done anything to incite any passion in her?

I'm all ears if you have any suggestions. I believe just having that convo last night evoked some level of passion. Come to think of it everytime we've had one of the major R talks we become closer right afterword and S and intimacy has been involved. Then it fizzles out with our daily "surface conversation".

I found it interesting that at the beginning of our convo she said she hated talking about it, but then within 10 minutes of talking about it she said she was glad we we're talking about it and it made her feel better.

In my opinion, you can love someone and leave them. It is not a loving act to allow someone to abuse you and treat you poorly. Setting a healthy boundary, taking good care of yourself, and ending the relationship if necessary ... to me is an act of love for both of you.

You're suggesting I leave her?

I'll be honest, my stomach turned reading this. I'm not even saying I think you're wrong, but don't you think there's other things I should be trying first? MC? Retro? Something else to give my W some perspective? Leaving her would feel like giving up. Do you really think its time to let her go based on my last post? What if her wording came out wrong or I miss interoperated a piece of it? What about patience, patience and more patience?

[quote=Accuray]I will say this again and I don't know how to make it sink in -- if you are skeptical that she will step up for the relationship *you* want longer term, *now* is the time to separate. Right now is the easiest time to go.

Of course I'm skeptical, but wouldn't that be the majority of us?

[completelylost]

We are all here for pretty much the same reasons, so having said that none of us are experts... Only YOU know what's best for you and your sitch. Pray and Pray often. You say you are all ears, sometimes we need to turn down the volume. Be still, Be patient. You can NOT change your spouse bur God can and the notion that she "needs" or "should" be doing something at this point might not be the most accurate assesment. Only you know what works for YOU. Love conquers all, UNCONDITIONAL love that is. Make love you guide. With your kids, spouse, neighbor, coworker, parents and so on... Stay positive. Again that doesn't mean be weak or a pushover but above all LOVE...

Love will transform you... Does that mean she won't leave? NO? But it does continue to improve you.

[Steve McQueen]

feedback?

you still do not have your anxiety disorder under control, and to someone needing to get a little something on the side having a partner in psychological distress is a huge reason to want to escape.

a few things that stand out. you are as needy as a teenage girl with all this relationship temperature taking. look at the title to your thread, emotional connection and attraction, what if your wife read that? think the first thought in your wife's head might "be a little anxious, huh?" then you are spying on her online activity and cell phone, and noting the location of her vibrators. Poor girl must feel creeped out most of the time.

another thing here is there is no talk of what you do for yourself as a MAN. Do you play golf, fish, got a sport? Reading through your hundred some odd posts, I'm reading our relationship this, my wife said that, taking with her girlfriends about your relationship, I need emotional connection. Yet another huge turn off.

Only piece of advice I can give you is go back to Divorce Busting and read the section about the foxes and the rabbits, I think its called the butterfly effect, then re-read your posts and take notes as to when the population of rabbit increase and when the fox dominates, and try to understand why you blow it every time you reach equilibrium.

[lovethehub]

BC,

I was your wife. I had a PA (hers was just EA? Is this definite? I originally claimed that myself) and then spent the next few years 1/3 in 2/3 out. I fantasized about getting out, dating OM out in the open, looked for places to live, etc.. all while going to MC and giving halfhearted attempts at fixing our M.

Deep inside there was something holding me there but I didn't know what it was. I couldn't find it within myself (or didn't really want to, I guess) to work on our M for anymore than a month or so at a time. Just like your "business encounter sex", my H could tell that I was just going through the motions. Yes, there were times it was more than that, but not always.

She doesn't know what she wants. She isn't totally out but she isn't really in. What will change that? I don't know. For me, I know that my H being silly with me, making me laugh, trying, reading books, wanting to talk did not do it. It made things better for short periods of time but didn't really change how I felt inside and that was exactly the way your W felt. I wanted SOME passion towards my H and I didn't have any.

It wasn't until he became the WAS that I was ready to look at myself, do the work and try to save our M. I am very lucky that it doesn't appear to have been too late, time will tell. I am not suggesting you leave her, this is something that you will feel inside - that you are just fed up with the way things are and you refuse to do it anymore.

I LRT'd for several months before my H came back and even then, the first 2 months were pretty shaky. I did not contact him at all unless it was about the kids. I was always nice but didn't initiate conversation and ended it a lot earlier than I would have previously. I didn't ask him to get me things I needed, I went and did it myself. I basically pulled away while being friendly and co-parenting. Take it for what it's worth because it is only my personal opinion, but I don't believe that continuing to initiate sex, keeping the status quo and act like all is well is going to be the way to fix this.