Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#2358653 06/16/13 07:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 616
M
mtb1981 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 616
So, my wife left in the middle of February and moved St. Louis (2 hours away) to stay with her uncle, leaving me with our 2 kids. . We have been together for 7 years and married for 5, with a D4 and S3. I did not know what a WAW was until I stumbled across this forum, and it seems to be exactly what my sitch is. I had thought everything was OK ,and then the BD. i got the whole ILYBNILWY, this has been building up for the past 2 years, I can't be happy here, I want a divorce, etc. Of course, I made the classic mistake of begging, pleading, and pursuing in hopes of changing her mind for 3 months. More intense in the beginning and tapering off towards the end. I finally realized that it was only pushing her further away. She even told me at points that I was pushing her away, but I was too stupid to pay attention and listen.

The first month she was gone, she was very cold, and avoided having contact with me as much as she could. Insisted that she wanted a divorce, had her mind made up, and there was nothing I could do. She finally warmed up and said she wasn't sure that she wanted a divorce and might want to work on it. Keep in mind, the whole time I am still in panic mode, trying to convince her to come home to work on things. She is saying " I love you" again, wearing her wedding ring again, and told me she wanted to take it slow. However, I kept pressuring her to move back home so we could start to work on things as soon as possible. I know now, that was the worst thing to do, but I still kept at it. In my mind, we weren't going to be able to solve our marital problems being physically separated and never being able to spend any quality time together. I felt like by doing what I was doing I was showing her how important our relationship was and that it could indeed be saved. That if I sat around not letting her know how I felt, she would think I didn't care and start moving on.

At the beginning of May I convinced her to go to counseling with me. She attended 1 session and said that she thought it was good. Then, she missed the 2nd session, bc of "car trouble". Missed the 3rd due to work related conflicts. And missed the 4th due to "car trouble" again. I got the hint that she wasn't interested in counseling and we have stopped trying to go. Later, she told me she did think counseling was OK, but she didn't like some of the things the counselor had said about her part in our marriage troubles.

It was during this time, I brought up an ultimatum. Again, I know, wrong thing to do. She was telling me that she wanted our marriage to work and our family to be together, but at the same time she was happy inn St. Louis and felt alive again. She has a part time job there, and several friends she met through work. I felt like she enjoyed the free time, hanging out with friends in the bar, and sowing her wild oats. We married when she was 20 and I was 26 and had kids shortly after. I felt like she was cake eating. I told her that she couldn't have both. She needed to choose between living the single life in St. Louis or coming home to work on us. She said she was going to come home to work on us. I was ecstatic! But first she needed to train a girl to take over her position at her job. I asked how long that would take and she said a week. One week turned into 2, and 2 into 3. The whole time I keep asking her when she is going to be back and she can never give me a timeframe. During this time, she had also been working part time at an insurance agency, and they offered her a full time position around the same time she said she would come home to work on things. Any way, towards the end of May she says that she is not coming home anymore, that she is looking for her own place in St. Louis, and is starting full time at the insurance place. The whole time she said she was going to come home, I had a feeling she was planning on staying there. I just don't know why she wasn't honest with me in the first place. Said she was quitting the part time job to come home, when in actuality she was quitting to take the full time position.

I realize that my sitch is not as bad as many, and would probably be much better if I hadn't been so pushy and needy in the first place, but what is done is done. I have realized my faults and what I have done to cause her to want to leave in the first place and have worked on improving myself since day one. Sorry this is so lengthy, but I have a lot on my mind and want to be as specific as I can so I can get the best advice possible. I'll leave it at this for now and fill in the rest later. Thanks in advance for any advice and help. My family is really important to me, and I appreciate any help I can get.

Thanks,
mtb1981


Me: 38
W:31
Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4
M: 10 years
T:12 years
BD:Jan 3, 2018
W moved out: Apr 13,2018
Filed for D: Jun 2018
D final: Sep 2019

"Surrender to the Flow"...
mtb1981 #2359081 06/18/13 02:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 616
M
mtb1981 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 616
2 weeks ago I finally realized that I needed to give her space, so I went dark. After 3 days of no contact she called me that night and said she missed me. I told her I missed her too, but that was about it. We talked for about a half hour about random things. In the middle of this whole separation she had mentioned that we should date, but I was a moron at the time and still in panic mode and told her that she just needed to come home to work things out. That I thought it was silly to "date" my wife. We were already married, we just needed to fix the problem, move on, put this in the past, and work on a new better relationship. Boy, was I dumb. Now I realize she was inviting me back in, but I was too impatient to jump on the offer. (I never realized how many stupid mistakes I was making until I found this forum)

Anyway, during this call after the no contact, I asked her if she was still interested in dating. She said yes, that is what she wanted the whole time. So I asked her to go to a baseball game with me later this week, and she agreed. Another partial screw up on my part, I asked her if she was sure she wanted to do this. That if she didn't want to go out with me, she didn't have to, just let me know and be honest. This seemed to irritate her a little bit, so I dropped it immediately and moved on. So in a couple days we head to game for our 1st date. I keep reminding myself to keep a PMA and be upbeat, not talk about relationship issues, and to just have a good time. I've screwed up enough, and I think I have finally got this half way figured out.

Any other suggestions on how to handle this upcoming date? If so, they would be appreciated. Wish me luck!

mtb1981


Me: 38
W:31
Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4
M: 10 years
T:12 years
BD:Jan 3, 2018
W moved out: Apr 13,2018
Filed for D: Jun 2018
D final: Sep 2019

"Surrender to the Flow"...
mtb1981 #2359199 06/18/13 03:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 295
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 295
Hi mtb, hang in there and don't lose hope. Keep posting and you'll get ppl more involved.

I'm wondering - What has her contact been with your kids since she's left? Do you have firm visitation set up and everything? What changes have you made in the short time that she's been gone that would entice her to consider returning? If she loves St Louis so much, would you consider moving the family there?

Be cautious and slow about your date. We don't know enough history about your sitch except that you've been through the panic of being on your own. But if this is your new reality, how will you cope?


M: 40
H: 43
D15, D17
M: 22 years
S: 7/12
reb9597 #2359211 06/18/13 04:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 626
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 626
I know well the feeling of "coming alive" again as a WAW. I felt like I had quit existing my way through life and started living again. When my H asked me to stop doing certain things, I felt like he wanted me to shove myself back inside a box I no longer fit in.

You are going to have to be careful because it may feel to her like she has to give up herself in order to stay in the M, give up what makes her happy. While this isn't true, it is probably how she feels. Be careful not to place any demands on her at this time regarding your M, they will most likely drive her away or at least make it take a lot longer until she is ready to R.


M 46
H 44
D 12 S 8
M 9 T 11
BD 2/15/13
"Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13
Agree we are 'healing' 7/13
Definitely Piecing 9/13
mtb1981 #2359263 06/18/13 06:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: mtb1981
I finally realized that it was only pushing her further away. She even told me at points that I was pushing her away, but I was too stupid to pay attention and listen.


OK, try to remember this lesson you learned. Be VERY careful because early on we all do things that are pursuit/ pressure while convincing ourselves that we're doing them for other reasons. You have got to quit all pursuit ASAP, especially since you've been laying it on so heavy up to this point.

Quote:
In my mind, we weren't going to be able to solve our marital problems being physically separated and never being able to spend any quality time together.


Have you read DR? If not then do so. Also read and LIVE Sandi's DB 180 tips (sticky at top of forum). Your W needs TIME and SPACE. Give it to her.

Quote:
I felt like by doing what I was doing I was showing her how important our relationship was and that it could indeed be saved.


Your feelings are wrong. DB'ing is counterintuitive, it goes against your feelings. Acting on your feelings will not work. DB'ing will.

Quote:
Later, she told me she did think counseling was OK, but she didn't like some of the things the counselor had said about her part in our marriage troubles.


Don't push for MC. It doesn't work with WAS's. Get a DB coach, they're much more effective than MC.

Quote:
I have realized my faults and what I have done to cause her to want to leave in the first place and have worked on improving myself since day one.


OK, expand on that because THAT is the root of DB'ing. What are your faults? How did they affect your M? What are you doing differently now (your 180's)?

Quote:
2 weeks ago I finally realized that I needed to give her space, so I went dark.


Were you cold and detached in the M? If so then "going dark" can appear to be "more of the same" behavior to a WAS.

Quote:
In the middle of this whole separation she had mentioned that we should date, but I was a moron at the time and still in panic mode and told her that she just needed to come home to work things out. That I thought it was silly to "date" my wife.


Oh boy. Well like I said, read DR. Learn about validating your W. Don't argue/ reason/ explain/ agree/ disagree with her. Learn to LISTEN and STFU when she's talking. Learn to VALIDATE.

Quote:
Anyway, during this call after the no contact, I asked her if she was still interested in dating. She said yes, that is what she wanted the whole time.


That's fine, but don't have any expectations about it meaning anything, it probably doesn't. Early on the WAS will be willing to date, see MC, sit down to talk, etc. They do these things so they can check them off their list of "things I tried to do to save the M" before leaving. Understand that she's just trying to prove to herself that she's done, nothing more. You are at the very beginning of a very long journey and if you get your hopes up now you're going to be really disappointed. You need to find patience like you've never had before.


Quote:
I keep reminding myself to keep a PMA and be upbeat, not talk about relationship issues, and to just have a good time.


Good!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
mtb1981 #2359277 06/18/13 06:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Don't give her the idea that you believe the dating means anymore than going out together. In other words, if you show too much excitement over the "date" and give off vibrations of "Yeah, this means she's coming back", then she'll be turned completely off and probably act cold. Just try to relax and enjoy the game. Treat like you would treat just a friend that went with you. Take nothing for granted.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2359343 06/18/13 08:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 616
M
mtb1981 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 616
Thanks for the feedback, guys!

Now to answer some of your questions. Her contact with the kids hasn't been the greatest. In the beginning, she was coming home and staying a couple of days during the week. She would watch the kids while I went to work. I am a teacher. Since school has let out, and I am home all the rime her visits have dwindled to one night every 2 weeks. She will come home late on a Friday night, usually after the kids have already went to bed, hang out with them for a couple of hours in the morning, and then leave after lunch to "go back to work". I put that in quotes because there have been times she says she has to work and I find out later that she didn't. Also, i nthe beginning when I was calling her or she would call me, we would talk, but she would rarely ask to speak with the kids. I usually had to ask her if she wanted to say hi to them. In the past couple of weeks she has been asking to talk with them a lot more. Maybe because she isn't as home as much as she was in the beginning. There is no visitation schedule set up. She just comes and goes as she pleases.

The biggest change I have made is that I basically quit drinking. I used to drink onn a daily basis. Mostly by myself when I got home from work. Now i drink maybe once every 2 weeks if i go out with friends. I also joined the gym and am in the best shape I have been in since high school. Before this, i was pretty sedentary. I have actually lost about 40 pounds bc of working out and quitting drinking.

I have discussed moving to st. Louis or at least closer there recently, but I'm not sure she wants me there anymore. In the past, she had mentioned that we should move to St. Louis, but it made no sense at the time. She was a SAHM and I have tenure at the school I teach at. My main goal is to be able to provide for my family. It didn't seem logical to give up my job and move to St. Louis just because she thought it was more exciting there. She worked part time for a staffing company and occasionally would go there to do some banquet serving or bartending and she just thought St. Louis was the greatest place on Earth. I just couldn't justify uprooting my family on that basis alone.

As far as if this is my new reality, will I be able to cope with it? I believe I am already there. In the past week, I have accepted the fact that she probably won't come back, so I need to do what is best for me and the kids.

I think my major fault in the M was not really listening to her needs and being a bit of a control freak. I handled situations poorly and came across as demeaning and uncaring. I should probably mention that my wife has been struggling with an addiction to pain killers (Vicodin specifically) for the past couple of years. For about as long as we have been having marital troubles. I believe this has some to do with waht we have been going through. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that my actions have added to it as well. I could have dealt with the situation better than I did. Basically, she would sit around all day eating pills and watching TV. I don't want to come across as an a**, but she really didn't do much of anything. In the morning before I left for work i had to basically force her out of bed to take care of the kids. I didn't want them to be running around unsupervised while laid in bed asleep. I would tell her she needed to get up, she would say she was and fall back asleep. This cycle would repeat until I was to the point of being rude. When I got home from work, the dishes from breakfast would be pushed to the middle of the table and the dirty dishes from lunch would still be sitting on the table. She would be sitting n theliving room watching TV, and the kids would be in their room coloring on the walls. When I say nothing was being done while I was gone, I mean nothing. I tried to discuss withh her that as a SAHM she should be trying to get something done during the day. She would agree, and nothing would change. Eventually, i got so frustrated that my asking nicely would turn into complaints, criticisms, and demands. This happened for quite awhile. Eventually, it got to the point where I was angry bc she sat aound not doing anything, and she was angry bc I was always complaining about her not doing anything. Finally, I quit complaining and just took care of things myself. When I got home, i would clean up the mess on the table and around the house, cook dinner, feed the kids, give them baths, and get them ready for bed. While drinking beer the whole time. I think i drank bc it just made me numb to the whole situation. After reading 5LL, i have now realized there was a serious lack of communication and we were not speaking each others love languages. If i would have spoken her love language, she would have been more willing to do the things i was asking for ( my love language). Problem avoided, but there's nothing I can do about that now but make the positive changes i am making to make sure that doesn't happen again if i get the chance to have a new relationship with her.

Looking back, she made an attempt to make things better, and i didn't reciprocate as well as i could have. This past December she had a moment of clarity and realized she had a serious addiction. She wanted to get off the pills bc they " took her to a dark place" she didn't like. She went to stay with her grandma to detox for a week. A couple weeks later i found a bottle of pills in the house and threw them away. The next day, she asked what happened to thepills. I told her that I threw them away and she became irate claiming that she needed them to giveto a friend that was having pain trouble and that she wasn't going to take any. I just told her to forget about the pills, if her friend needed pillsshe needed to see a doctor. She got over this in the next few days. January was the best month we had in quite awhile. She was a completely different person. Happy and productive. Our sex life picked up again. Things were going great. I noticed and appreciated her changes, but i failed to make the necessary changes of my own. We got into a fight on Feb 3, and a few days later I noticed a change in her behavior and found a bottle of pills that were filled on the 4th. She assured me that she was going to tell me about them when she thought the time was right. That she needed them for her back. (she broke her back 10 years ago in a car wreck and has had some pain due to it) that she wasn't going to take the like she had been. She would get a month's script and have them all gone in 2 weeks and go see another doctor or get sone from her friends. I told her she was an adult and she could do what she wanted, but that she needed to be careful because addiction is a slippery slope. She assured me everything would be fine. Onn the 12th i came home that evening from the grocery store to her passed out watching tv, while the kids were running around soaking wet. They had demolished the bathroom and flooded the toilet. There was standing water in the bathroom and it was going all down the hall. I trie to wake her up and she would look at me with a blank stare for a few seconds and then go back to sleep. Needless to say, i was pretty upset, so i didn't really want to talk to her thenext couple of days. I needed to calm down and I didn't want to have a blowout fight. The 14th was Valentine's Day, and I had calmed down. And was ready to talk again. My oldest S10 from a previous relationship had a basketball game and my wife said she didn't want to go and wanted to stay home. So I took the 2 youngest kids with me to the game and when I got back home at 7 she was not home. So now i'm upset bc she can't go the the game with her family, but she can go out and do other things. Sge finally came home around 10:30 and I was already in bed. She came in being all nice and I basically blew her off bc I was upset at how our Valentine's day had went. We had plans to go out of town on the 16th to a concert. This trip was my Valentine's Day present to her. I felt bad about blowing her off on the 14th and was looking forward to making things right on this trip. When I got home on the 16th and was getting ready for our trip, she informed me that she didn't want to go. That she was going to st. Louis to stay with her uncle bc she was mad at me. The next day i noticed that she changed her relationship status on facebook from married to single. I called her to ask what was going on and she told me over thephone that we were done. She was staying in stl with her uncle and the staffing company she worked for was going to be finding her work there.........and here we are 4 months later.

Sorry for being so long, but once I started, i couldn't stop. Looking back i noticed many times i could have handled certain situations much better and probably prevented all of this. Like they say, hindsight is 20/20.

Again, thank you everybody for your input. I ordered DR on amazon a few days ago and it can't get here quick enough


Me: 38
W:31
Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4
M: 10 years
T:12 years
BD:Jan 3, 2018
W moved out: Apr 13,2018
Filed for D: Jun 2018
D final: Sep 2019

"Surrender to the Flow"...
sandi2 #2359345 06/18/13 08:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 616
M
mtb1981 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 616
Also, we have these orange flowers in our yard that bloom every year in June that she has always really liked. I thought about bringing some for her on Thursday when I meet her for the ballgame. Or is that a big no-no?


Me: 38
W:31
Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4
M: 10 years
T:12 years
BD:Jan 3, 2018
W moved out: Apr 13,2018
Filed for D: Jun 2018
D final: Sep 2019

"Surrender to the Flow"...
sandi2 #2359808 06/19/13 09:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 616
M
mtb1981 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 616
My copy of DR was supposed to come on the mail today. It didn't show up, so it should get here tomorrow. The anticipation is killing me!


Me: 38
W:31
Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4
M: 10 years
T:12 years
BD:Jan 3, 2018
W moved out: Apr 13,2018
Filed for D: Jun 2018
D final: Sep 2019

"Surrender to the Flow"...
sandi2 #2360059 06/20/13 02:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 616
M
mtb1981 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 616
A question for lovethehub:

I totally understand where you are coming from when you say that she may feel like she has to give up herself in order to stay in the M and give up being happy. Especially with me pushing for her to come home. I guess my question is, would it be a good idea to tell her that she will not have to give these things up to stay in the M. I feel as though she has it stuck in her mind after my pushing that I still expect her to give up everything she has worked for, and that is not the case. I don't want to get into a R convo, l just want to be clear and want her to understand that by staying with the M, she is not expected to give these things up. First and foremost, I want her to be happy and I understand that these things are making her happy. That I have no intention of her giving them up. Like I said, i am just afraid that the pushing from before has her thinking it won't be possible to keep what she has and still have our M. What do you think?


Me: 38
W:31
Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4
M: 10 years
T:12 years
BD:Jan 3, 2018
W moved out: Apr 13,2018
Filed for D: Jun 2018
D final: Sep 2019

"Surrender to the Flow"...
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard