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A Message from Michele
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Re: 3 years later.... [Re: gman] #2333425
03/27/13 07:03 PM
03/27/13 07:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 133
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too trusting Offline
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too trusting  Offline
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Originally Posted By: gman
I understand that "mistakes" are made....like when you make and addition error or subtraction error, affairs on the other hand, no matter how you look at them are "decisions". They are actions that have consiquences.

well - a wrong decision is also a mistake. it might not be like an unintentional math error, because it is a conscious decision, but it is still a mistake when you make the wrong choice.

so tell me, in your past, did you only ever make right decisions? you never made a wrong decision? i.e. anything which, in retrospect, you realize that you should have done differently?

all of us have made wrong decisions about something or other. not necessarily about cheating, of course, but e.g. accepting (or declining) a certain job when we realize later that we should have done the opposite. choosing whether or not to go to college. going somewhere and ending up in an accident. etc. just to give a few of many life decisions where we can make a mistake.

a wrong decision is still a mistake, even if we made the decision ourselves.

Originally Posted By: gman
she still to this day doesn't want to talk about her choice and how it would affect others. the biggest regret that cheaters have...being caught.

forgivness sometimes is not an option if the cheater doesn't even attempt to mend any of the damage they did, they only want to "forget about it"...

so that is the question. has she shown remorse, has she tried to repair the damage?

the main question here: is she trying to repair the damage and you are not allowing her to do so? or is she not even trying?

Originally Posted By: gman

sorry kind of hard to forget that your wife was screwing a guy for 6 months behind your back

no, you can't "forget" it, but if she shows remorse, and tries to repair the damamge (and you allow her to do so), the memories will get dimmer. like any other traumatic event. you would never completely forget about it, but you can reach a situation where the damage is repaired and you think about your present and future, and not the past. like a broken vase that has been successfully glued back together, you might still see the cracks if you look closely, but in general it is doing its job and the cracks are no longer obvious.


Me: 60 H: 63
married 40, together 42
3 grown kids
Re: 3 years later.... [Re: too trusting] #2333438
03/27/13 07:28 PM
03/27/13 07:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
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MrBond Offline
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MrBond  Offline
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Posts: 12,602
"each situation is also different,"

Even though the reasons or situations leading up to an A are different, the end result is the same.

"i knew, she was an evil witch for those six months to me."

Because of the A. It's her shame that causes them to do that.

"she still to this day doesn't want to talk about her choice and how it would affect others."

That is her choice because she feels uncomfortable about it.

"the biggest regret that cheaters have...being caught."

That is a simply wrong blanket statement.

"forgivness sometimes is not an option if the cheater doesn't even attempt to mend any of the damage they did,"

No. Forgiveness is ALWAYS an option. Forgiveness is in the control of the person who was cheated on. Even if she did apologize and did everything she could to make you happy, you may not "forgive" her.

"they only want to "forget about it"...sorry kind of hard to forget that your wife was screwing a guy for 6 months behind your back"

It only takes one person to change the dynamic. If you continue to act pissy and resentful towards her, she's not going to feel safe enough to open up to you again. That's probably why she doesn't want to apologize to you.

Have you gone to a C to talk about these things? Have you sat down and talked to your W about it? And I don't mean you confronting her and accusing her, etc. I mean, you actually having a heart to heart, telling her that you have been extremely hurt by her actions and want to heal and need her to help you to heal.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
Re: 3 years later.... [Re: gman] #2333808
03/28/13 09:25 PM
03/28/13 09:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,543
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sandi2 Offline
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sandi2  Offline
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Posts: 18,543
Quote:
good luck to anyone else who has to deal with the sleepless nights and putting up a fake front for friend and family (who would be repulsed by her actions) - but most of all for my kids i feel sorry that they don't have the parents that love and are affectionate to one another.


It is YOUR choice if you put on a front. It is YOUR choice if you do not love and are not affectionate to your W. If she is not that way toward you, you have the choice to stay or leave. But you are hurting your children by all the bitterness you harbor in your heart. You can blame everything on her, but only you are responsible for how you react to her actions.

Quote:
just another day living with her DECISION - total BS when people call it a MISTAKE....the mistake was getting caught in the DECISION they make.


I agree that it's more than just a mistake. It is a sin. Sin is always a choice. The scripture says the wages of sin is death. So, something dies when there is sin. If you could offer suggestions about who or what would die in your stitch, what would it be?

Quote:
"the biggest regret that cheaters have...being caught."


You can't speak for everyone. Getting caught was not my biggest regret. Your hatred is going to eat you alive.


Quote:
each situation is also different, i never KNEW about the affair that she hid for six months from me - it was only when i caught her with the OM wife in their lies that i knew, she was an evil witch for those six months to me.


Which part makes you so angry? The fact that she was with OM, or that she hid it? Would it have been better if she told you in advance what she was going to do and then openly conduct the A?

Quote:
forgivness sometimes is not an option if the cheater doesn't even attempt to mend any of the damage they did,


People can't work for forgiveness. They can't do enough to deserve it. It only comes by one way. It's called "grace".


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: 3 years later.... [Re: sandi2] #2334735
04/01/13 12:17 PM
04/01/13 12:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 35
Florida
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Mileus Offline
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Mileus  Offline
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Posts: 35
Florida
It is very difficult for some to admit that they were wrong and if she isn't willing to work on the relationship, it may not be fixable. However, that has nothing to do with forgiveness. Forgiveness is about you, not the cheater. It is a way for you to release the negative emotions that are holding you back from enjoying your life.

Detach. Take a deep breath. And learn to let go of the past. I was in your situation a few months ago and it was definitely not easy to forgive, but now that I have, I feel so much better. I am happier, my family is happier, and she hasn't changed a bit. But, it doesn't matter because it put me into a place to move on.

Forgiveness will allow you to be a better person. It will make her more comfortable around you and more likely to make changes. It will give your relationship a chance. And even if it doesn't work out, it will give you a better chance at being happy.


M: 38 H: 39
D: 20
S: 18
S: 16
T: 14 Y
ILYBIDKIILWY/Affair 01/12/2013
Came Back 01/15/2013
Left Again 02/13/2013
Re: 3 years later.... [Re: Mileus] #2335155
04/02/13 03:22 PM
04/02/13 03:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 374
Michigan
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gman Offline OP
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gman  Offline OP
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Posts: 374
Michigan
all i just wanted to let you know, i tried all the stuff on this site when she gave me the ILYBNILWY speech. to be honest had it not been for the people i exchanged stories and books i read from this site, not sure i would have made it to this point at all.

call me bitter or full of hate if you will, the simple point i wanted to make is sometimes stuff can't be repaired, forgivness won't come, and forgetting is impossible. not all ends happy and nice. i do find it funny how i get portrayed as the bad guy by posting my true thoughts, and she was the adultress and gets defended...comical to me.

i tried to mend with her, she rejected C and doesn't want to tlak about it (because after exposed she learned the OM had another A goin on the side and was just using her like a peice of meat)- sadly kids are not dumb, and i will NOT spend a day without them becuse of the choice she made. and heck...if we did D my kids quality of life would suffer because i know she would want support from me and i can't afford two houses and all the $ to support my kids (she was a SAH mom).


M-37 W-36
S-11, S-9, D-4
PA exposed 3/13/10
10/19/10 moving on...
most up to date sit
Re: 3 years later.... [Re: gman] #2335373
04/03/13 03:51 AM
04/03/13 03:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 15
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MightyJ Offline
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MightyJ  Offline
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Posts: 15
So what r doing then, living as roommates while she continues the affair?

Re: 3 years later.... [Re: MightyJ] #2335629
04/03/13 08:45 PM
04/03/13 08:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 214
K
kenva Offline
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kenva  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 214
Gman. How did you find out about the affair?


M 43
W 35
S 6
BD 7-11
Served 5-2-13
Sep agree signed 5-12-14
Wife moves out pending refinance 5-14-14
Divorce hearing set May 2
Divorced May 2
Re: 3 years later.... [Re: kenva] #2335662
04/04/13 12:29 AM
04/04/13 12:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 133
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too trusting Offline
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@MJ - he wrote in his opening post that his wife's affair lasted for 6 months and was 3 years ago. i.e. despite the fact that her affair is long over, and didn't last very long either, he wants to continue punishing her for it forever. and in doing so he is punishing himself and his kids. it's very, very sad.

his behavior is keeping the memory of the affair alive long after it ended.

gman - I have news for you. you say that some behavior can't be forgiven. well, this forum is full of people who have experienced the same betrayal you did (in some cases, for a much longer time), and yet found the ability to forgive their wayward spouse and rebuilt their relationship.

one of the goals of divorce busting is to make yourself a better choice than the OP. but with your punishing, unforgiving behavior, I wonder why your wife doesn't just pick up and leave.

it's very sad that in your effort to make her miserable, you are just making yourself miserable. you write that some things can't be forgiven. well, it all depends on you.


Me: 60 H: 63
married 40, together 42
3 grown kids
Re: 3 years later.... [Re: too trusting] #2335732
04/04/13 11:42 AM
04/04/13 11:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 11
D
darkhair Offline
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darkhair  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 11
Where do I know for sure that the affair ended? Maybe they are just hiding it better. Because divorcing it's not an option and the OW is not an option too.
I really understand gman. I want to forgive and try to forget. But it seems both of us are unable to do that. Maybe we need some more time, but I doubt it.

Re: 3 years later.... [Re: darkhair] #2335844
04/04/13 05:04 PM
04/04/13 05:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 133
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too trusting Offline
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 133
@darkhair - while there is no way to know "for sure" beyond a shadow of a doubt - there are signs that would indicate if she is cheating or not, especially if she is living at home. I think that gman himself is pretty sure that the affair is over, because he wrote in his first post "update on wifes 6 month affair from 3 years ago". i.e. he knows when it started and when it ended, and he is reasonably sure that his wife has not been cheating since the affair ended 3 years ago. otherwise he would have phrased this differently.

he is being vengeful and unforgiving, he specifically states: "it is in my opinion almost impossible to forgive the lies and hateful things that were said and done by her." but there are many people in this forum who have decided to forgive their wayward spouse and rebuild their relationship. forgiveness comes from a decision by the betrayed spouse to forgive - i.e. to look at the present and future and not remain fixated on the past. we can't change the past. we can only change the present and future.

he also says: "to this day she wants to act as if it never happened, she is embarrased by it but no one knows what she did and she wants to keep it that way." but that is not surprising in view of his unforgiving attitude.

my DB counsellor told me: "when asking your spouse questions about the past, act like a news reporter, asking questions in a neutral way and not getting upset at the answers, just gathering information." but I am sure that gman cannot bring himself to do this. probably when he asks her questions about her infidelity, he cannot refrain from going ballistic if she tells him anything about what happened; and he probably cannot refrain from phrasing the questions in a mean, accusing way.

now I agree that the behavior of any unfaithful spouse is deplorable; but if you want information about the past, you won't get it if you attack them when you are asking questions.

my advice for gman is, not to ask her questions about what she did in her infidelity, because it's pretty definite that he won't be able to handle the answers. the goal of asking questions about the infidelity is to give the unfaithful spouse an opportunity to say, basically: "yes, I hid this in the past, but now I am showing I am trustworthy by not hiding it any longer." however, if the betrayed spouse cannot handle the information - if this information makes him angrier rather than more reassured - then it is best NOT TO ASK ABOUT "WHAT SHE DID".

instead, though, as a trust-building question, he could ask about how she hid the infidelity. this needs to be asked in a reassuring way: "I promise I won't get angry at you for the past. In order to be able to put this behind us, I want to know how you hid the infidelity from me." and then he needs to keep that promise - to listen calmly, not show any anger, and not bring this up as an accusation at any time in the future.

he should ask just one question at a time, i.e., no more than one question a day, until he can show his wife that he won't get angry at her for answering the questions. when she feels confident that he won't go ballistic on her, she will be able to be more forthcoming with answers.

it should be noted that in many cases, i.e. if the betrayed spouse can't handle the unpleasant information, reconciliation is easier if the husband and wife just say: the past is the past, and from this day forward we will be faithful and loving, and rebuild our relationship. gman should consider the possibility of doing it this way.


Me: 60 H: 63
married 40, together 42
3 grown kids
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