My wife is having affair with a mutual friend

[Hawker_44]

Wow! Thank you so much for you kind and wonderful advice. After the first week on this forum, I didn't think I was going to get much help, but I was wrong! Thank you all for your kind words.

Well I have an update from my first post that I think will shed alot of light on my situation. I now have proof of a physical relationship. This past weekend we helped our friend(OM) move into his new house and we spent the night there after the move. On Sunday morning I volunteered to run to the grocery store to pick-up a few things, leaving them alone in the house. I left my phone behind and set it to record sound. I was gone for about 30 minutes, and when I returned everything seemed fine and normal. As soon as I could, I excuse myself from my wife and the OM and listened to what my phone had recorded. My suspicions where right, I could clearly hear them having sex. I was devestated, I was pretty sure they were having an affair, but to hear it was overwhelming. It took everything I had to hold it together and not let on to what I had found. My wife could tell something was wrong but I didn't tell her anything. I just told her I wasn't feeling well. We stayed for a few more hours and then packed-up and left for home. On the drive home my wife tried to get me to talk about what was wrong with me, but couldn't bring myself to discuss it with her just yet. Later that night I finaly did tell her that I knew she was in love with the OM and that he was in love with her too. She of course told me that I was being silly and that they were just good friends. We continued to discuss the situation and I finaly asked her point blank, did she and the OM do anything while I was gone to the store? She got very flustered and angry that I would accuse her of something like that. Then she wanted to know why I would ask that, did I have proof? I didn't want her to know that I had scretely recorded them together so I told her that I had notched certain indications on his bed (i.e. wet spots). She then proceeded to berate me for accusing her of such a thing and for all she knew he (OM) had had a wet dream last night. At this point I was just wanting her to confess to the affair becuase I knew if she denied it,knowing that I knew about it, then that meant her relationship to him was more important to her than healing ours. We talked some more last night about it, and I assured her that if she was telling me the truth then I would believe her and trust her. But of course I know she is lying and intends to continue the relationship, but more discretely. Even as I write this she is planning on being with him this Thursday on the pretext of going to a meeting.

So now what? Do I go on pretending I don't know? Do I confront her with the conclusive evidence? I want to save my marriage and not drive her into the arms of the OM. The hardest thing for me right now is the fact she is lying to me and her pretending everything is fine between us. Everytime I think about them together I get sick to my stomach and I have a hard not showing my emotions to my wife.

Thanks again for all your words of wisdom and support.

[Hawker_44]

Thanks for your input adinva. See my responses below:

How do you know for a fact about this affair, and do you know for a fact if it is physical or not yet?

Yes, its is a physical relationship. I posted in an earlier post that I had recently caught my wife with the OM.

Do you know for a fact that she doesn't know you know? Asking you what is wrong could be her trying to broach the subject, the elephant in the room - it sounds like you are assuming that she doesn't know because he hasn't said anything and hasn't acted differently, but that is mind-reading. Try to stick with actual facts.

I asked her point blank if she was having an affair and she denied it. Now I know she is willing to lie about the affair to try to protect what she has.

You mean, in a year, you've approached her a few times and ML a few, so maybe six approaches over the whole year? Is that a change from last year?

No, we have ML more than that over the past year, but within the past few months she has made more excuses not to ML.

Would you describe your desire as evenly matched over the course of your marriage, or was she wanting more than you or vice versa?

I would diffently say that I have always have had more desire than she.

What else was potentially broken in your marriage, now that you look back over it? Has she told you anything she was unhappy about?

I think this is one of the factors that pushed her into this affair. In the past I have been somewhat withdrawn and not always the most loving of husbands. I guess I got stuck in a rut and just took our marriage for granted. I think I am somewhat to blame for the actions of my wife, I see that clearly now.

I think you should get to work on yourself right now, try to get the ground back under your feet and figure out what kind of a marriage you want in your future, and then lovingly get this out in the open with your W before you find yourself trying to fake it with them. But - if you can afford coaching that would be a much better source of guidance than me on that particular issue.

This is very good advice and I will try to follow it. The hard part is masking my feelings with my W and the OM when we are together. Right now I'm feeling realy hurt and angry about the situation and I'm not one who can just act like nothing is wrong. This is going to be the real challenge for me.

Read the 37 rules that are stickied at the top of Newcomers and try to do any of them that help to heal your self respect, positive mental attitude, and health, Do any of them that make you more interesting, more mysterious, more of a catch than you were before. Do them to stay busy, to keep your mind off what your W is thinking, and to heal.

I have read them and am trying to follow as many as I can.

((((((hugs)))))) This is SO hurtful. You're not alone here though. Unfortunately you have lots of company here. Take care of you.

Thank you so much for your support. Just knowing there are people like you out here that are willing to help makes me start to feel better.

[adinva]

I would like to suggest that you stop lying. Snooping, tape recording her, and lying about it is not making you look good or feel good. You might want to consult with a lawyer to determine if having proof of adultery makes a whit of difference in a divorce in your state; I was surprised to find it makes no material difference in mine or many others. Other than that, your snooping does nothing good. Your marriage was in trouble before you snooped and you knew it because you came here. Helping OM move and pretending you're all friends, and telling W nothing is wrong are not working in your favor. You don't have to say anything, so you don't have to lie. Just because W asks you something point blank you don't have to say something you're not ready to discuss, and you don't have to lie in order to avoid talking about it. Personally, I'm not a fan of lying; it hurts your self respect.

So, you said that masking your feelings and acting as if nothing's wrong when you're with W and OM is hard and painful because you feel hurt and angry. This is where DB comes in handy in two ways. One is taking charge of your life. You don't have to be with W and OM and you should not; it's artificial friendliness you don't feel and you can get busy doing other things if you're not ready to tell W that you won't spend time with the man with whom she is committing adultery. GAL = get a life. Get to the gym, make some new friends who think you are awesome, start doing interesting things all on your own to heal your self esteem and turn around some of the boring, phoning-it-in, lazy behavior that you may have slipped into as a longtime husband. Start looking interesting, active, and not sitting around pining for your W.

Two is battling your hurt and anger with a healthy dose of self-examination. You took your marriage for granted and let it slide into disrepair, and when that happens spouses stray. If you're not ready yet to have a conversation with W apologizing for letting her down, then at least start getting to work finding out what you should have and could have been doing different to maintain your relationship. Read DR, and maybe the 5 Love Languages. Get out of victim mode, and recognize that you've just had the most effective and most horrible wake-up call possible for personal growth.

You've asked your W to admit to her affair and she chose to lie about it. DB is not in favor of confronting and exposing an affair but rather working on the faults that led to the breakdown in your marriage, backing way off from your W and working on being a man only a fool would leave.

[Hawker_44]

Thank you adinva, this is the slap I needed to get me out of the pool of self pity I was drowning in.

I would like to suggest that you stop lying. Snooping, tape recording her, and lying about it is not making you look good or feel good.

I hate that I did spy on my W, and I resisted for so long, but I just had to know for certain.

Helping OM move and pretending you're all friends, and telling W nothing is wrong are not working in your favor. You don't have to say anything, so you don't have to lie.

This is the part I'm having trouble understanding. If I don't lie to my W then what am I supposed to do? You say don't confront her about the affair and give her plenty of space. How do I tell her that I don't want to be around them together anymore and not lie to her for a reason? She is going to want to know why I don't want to do the same things we did in the past. For the past 2 years we have been doing everything together, vacations, weekend trips, birthdays, holidays, etc. I have to tell her something, don't I?

Two is battling your hurt and anger with a healthy dose of self-examination. You took your marriage for granted and let it slide into disrepair, and when that happens spouses stray. If you're not ready yet to have a conversation with W apologizing for letting her down, then at least start getting to work finding out what you should have and could have been doing different to maintain your relationship. Read DR, and maybe the 5 Love Languages. Get out of victim mode, and recognize that you've just had the most effective and most horrible wake-up call possible for personal growth.

I have orderd DB and DR and will work hard on implementing the advice in the books. Also, I have been denying the fact that I am depressed and will seek help to remedy it. I think that has been a big factor in my W looking elsewhere for more than I was giving her.

[AnotherStander]

This is the part I'm having trouble understanding. If I don't lie to my W then what am I supposed to do? You say don't confront her about the affair and give her plenty of space. How do I tell her that I don't want to be around them together anymore and not lie to her for a reason? She is going to want to know why I don't want to do the same things we did in the past. For the past 2 years we have been doing everything together, vacations, weekend trips, birthdays, holidays, etc. I have to tell her something, don't I?

It wasn't a good idea to do the tape recorder thing, but I agree with Adinva that covering it up with lies is just making it worse rather than better. Sometimes people enjoy affairs because the secrecy is exciting to them. Well the cat's out of the bag, so at this point you might as well tell her you know and if she asks how you know then just tell her what you did. But first, you've got to decide what you want. I would think you do not want things to continue as-is with her having an A and both of you pretending she's not. So, if she refuses to leave OM, what do you want? Do you want her to leave? Go to counseling? Whatever it is then present that to her at the same time as disclosing the news. And give her some time frame, don't force her to decide on the spot. Give her a day or two. Prepare yourself for the possibility that she may leave. That doesn't necessarily mean it's over though. Good luck.

[tryingtilDorR]

I have some counter advice. I think it is good that you got proof of what was going on. I did something similar, but I was less sure that the W was in an affair so it gave me proof and allowed me to cut through the lies to really face what I was actually dealing with. In your case, that is the purpose it as served - it allows you to know exactly what you are up against so that you can't avoid the truth.

Now the big question is what to do with the information. I made the mistake of immediately confronting my W and the conversation started just like the one you had 'do you have proof?'

She needs to cut off ALL contact with OM if your M has any chance of surviving, no matter how much you GAL, etc. Her R with OM is like a drug addiction at this point. However, getting her to make that choice is where the DB techniques come in. If you detatch and follow the advice you will potentially help influence her choice to stop seeing OM and working on M.

However, I don't think this will happen unless the truth is on the table and discussed openly. That is the approach I took, but my W was more of a WAW than yours is. We were not affectionate at ALL ( no hugs kisses or kindness) when she was with OM.

I know her behavior is giving you hope. Use that hope to stay strong, but I don't think you will make progress unless you two can openly discuss the affair. If she keeps lying you may need to tell her you have proof without stating what it is.

I know my WAW was FURIOUS when I tape recorded her to get proof. I immideately told her and the OM. I am divorced now, so maybe it wasnt the best tactic, but I felt like it was the only hope since it was the only way for her to face truth and to see if there was any chance of working on it. If the truth is buried, it won't get dealt with, and cutting off ALL communication with OM is what is required here, along with your DB changes.

[tryingtilDorR]

One other thought is what does the OM stand to lose if the affair was known? Does he have a wife/family? I have read many stories of where contacting the OM's spouse was the deal-killer and OM quit the affair. The goal of that would be to get the affair to stop sot hat you could have a chance to save the marriage.

If you chose to confront your wife:
"Honey I have proof that you have been having an affair with OM and I want us to deal with the truth so that we can save our marriage. I will not share my wife with another man."

Depending upon how the conversation goes, you could say "Also, if you don't agree to stop the affair I will be talking to OM and his spouse about it as wel...."

Again, not sure if it applies well to your situation, but if you decide you want the affair to stop ASAP so you can start rebuilding your M then this is something to consider.

I feel for you. I was there and it is not a fun place to be! I lived in limbo for 18 months, knowing the affair was going on, waiting for W to decide to turn away from it. At the same time, I was firm with her that all contact needed to stop and that I wouldnt accept being married to someone in an affair, but she never agreed to it. I couldn't bring myself to file for D because I loved her still and we had 4 children, so I just waited it out until she moved out into her own place, then I filed. That's my story in a paragraph.

[adinva]

Confronting the OM and his spouse are absolutely not recommended by DB. This is between you and your W.

[adinva]

Also, my personal opinion because, like I said, I'm opposed to lying. I think you're going to have to cop to recording her. You can refuse to tell her what proof you have, but that is childish. You did an underhanded thing, recording her with your phone. You can regret stooping so low, and you can certainly expect a whole lot of flak from her about doing that, but it's done. What are you going to do from this day forward?

I feel like if I were a cheating spouse and my H came to me calmly and disappointed in both of us, for letting me down, and for our communication becoming so broken that I was lying to his face and he was recording me with a phone to catch me... and said 1 - I love you, so much, enough to want to work with you through this to a stronger marriage, to figure out together where we went wrong and how to make it better, and 2 - I won't share you. We will be separated today, starting tonight you sleep in another room, until it's all done with OM and we're working on our marriage and we both begin to trust each other again.

I do happen to agree with the above, that since you did snoop and you did get your proof, you might as well stop all the lying and get it out on the table.

I used to think my H cheating on me was the lowest of the low, and past the point where we could reconcile. But after being separated from him for more than a year I think differently. I think reaching a crisis and getting through it together is entirely possible for me, and I've seen others here get past an affair. If you can get past it, but not let yourself be a doormat through it, I think that is such strength and deep love.

Not being a doormat means deciding what you can tolerate and what you will do if you don't get that minimum. So, know your answers. You can't make her do anything, feel anything, or think anything. You can only decide what YOU will do.

[tryingtilDorR]

One of the big issues that I see with WAW's (or WAH's) is cake-eating. They are off having their affair, and as long as nothing disrupts that they will continue because it is the path of least resistance. In addition, they will typically lie in ways the left-behind spouse can't imagine to protect the affair. This will continue unless something happens to change the course.

All that said, contacting the OM's spouse is an ultimate last resort if you want to affect change in the event that the WAW does not want to end the A (or admit to it, or whatever).

I agree that DB is all about focusing on YOU and the changes YOU can make to affect the situation and come out OK either way, which means meddling with the A by contacting the OM or his spouse is out of scope. We have no control over our WAW really - they have to make their own decisions.

Ultimately, the underlying driver here is what you are willing to put up with. I was willing to put up with my wife living in our house while having an A to a point before resorting to option (b) given that D is a long and painful process for everyone involved. My 2 older kids still have not really adjusted to it (they were in HS when it was happening).

You have to decide what your goals are, and create a plan of action to give you the best chance of achieving your goal, which ultimately should be that you want to do the best you can to make yourself OK and ready for whatever lies ahead - WAW or no WAW.

Adinva's advice is spot on - confront her in the right way and convey that you want to save your M, but set a boundary of some sort of separation until she ends her A. Otherwise, waiting around in the state you are in now means you will be in limbo, and that can go on a loooong time. I did it for 18 months.