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adinva Offline OP
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Ignore the actual numbers, there are typos in there. I think child support is closer to $1300/mo, plus about $350/mo would get you to our mortgage amount. Anyway that's probably irrelevant detail.


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
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Originally Posted By: Mach1
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

All of those posts were resistant to the possibility. I think they ALL said they thought it was probably just drugs…as if doing drugs was FAR preferable. Far less frightening. Almost as if they were reassuring you that he's not GAY.. Well maybe he is & maybe he isn't.
May I remind folks that that we have gay posters here? Some of them have posted on this thread.




25

No, I'm pretty sure that I do not need your reminder, nor do most people posting on this thread.

The reason, at least for me, is that it is a non issue..

The GAY issue,as you called it, is a non issue for me. I'm not really concerned if people are gay, pink, redneck, black, white or anything else. They are people....and they hurt, learn, and heal. They need support, and to feel loved, and validated. Their "status" isn't important.


If her son happens to be gay, or experimenting, or flying to the moon in a rowboat....

The issue at hand, is the drug issue...

THAT is why I didn't mention it....




^^^THIS^^^ for me too.


M: 9 yrs
T: 13 yrs
H:34 Me:35, S4, D2, S 7 months
Dday 11/12-PA & multiple PAs
Dbing 12/12
S 1/13
7/13 H moved back in basement.
8/13 #3 born
10/13 still cheating
10/13 He moves across country, I file for D
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Thanks for posting that analysis -- it feels to me like folks on this board go through an evolution where in the initial shock we take on too much of the blame for what has gone wrong. Over the course of a year or more I think the blinders come off a bit and we say "hey, I wasn't *that* bad".

That doesn't negate the value of the work we do on ourselves. People usually only change in response to crisis, so this crisis is an opportunity for self-discovery and self-improvement, but that process doesn't mean that you weren't "good enough for marriage" before, because chances are we all were.

Any marriage is going to have ups and downs and tension, people are imperfect. Over time we settle into equilibrium that is reached as a reflection of both of our idiosyncrasies, insecurities, and how we are used to being treated.

I enjoyed the discussion from RockJC about unconditional love. From my time here, I don't believe that unconditional love is enough to keep a marriage going. You can unconditionally love your former spouse, or someone you don't want to live with. It can certainly be enough for a marriage of convenience, but not for the kind of marriage that keeps both partners fulfilled.

I believe that successful marriage requires 3 things (1) emotionally healthy partners, (2) mutual attraction, and (3) commitment to and respect for the marriage. I think in many cases I read about here, it's the attraction that has evaporated for the WAS -- I think that's the real message behind ILYBINILWY.

Initially I thought "in love" was the butterflies in the stomach feeling of a new infatuation, and that it was natural and normal for that to diminish and fade, and that it was not a required ingredient for a successful marriage. After a considerable amount of time, I've come to believe that this "in love" feeling is different from "long term attraction", and it's the loss of the latter that the WAS is really talking about.

Although MWD doesn't talk about that specifically, I think that the practices of "act-as-if" and GAL are designed to re-kindle attraction. I think it's the attraction that motivates the willingness to work on the marriage and the willingness to compromise, versus the perceived obligation of unconditional love. It's the fuel for the fire so to speak. I'm not talking about physical attraction (although that may be part of it for some), I'm talking about feeling attracted to your spouse for a wide variety of reasons -- intellect, humor, compassion, a broad range of things -- it's the desire to "be with" this person. That feeling is good, and it's worth fighting to protect.

I think if you find yourself in a scenario where your spouse's attraction is gone or diminished, it tends to lead you to behaviors that make you even less attractive, and you start a very negative cycle of self-reinforcement. There are a minority of books that approach addressing marriage problems from this perspective, but I don't think any have really cracked the "re-create attraction" dilemma.

My biggest fear going through this process has been that if our marriage ends in D, that I will not find another person who I will feel as attracted to as I do to my W. My MC said that in the case of divorce, there are 3 scenarios:

1) 2 healthy people who just made a bad decision to be together and amicably separate. He said this is exceedingly rare.

2) 1 healthy person and one unhealthy person where the unhealthy person's destructive behavior or emotional limitations eventually drive the marriage apart.

3) 2 unhealthy people where their mutual issues create a situation that is more or less doomed from the start.

He said that second marriage statistics are so dismal because the pool of "divorced" people tends to be 3:1 unhealthy to healthy. Unfortunately, the unhealthy partner generally views the "other spouse" as the root of all the trouble and won't do the work to become healthy, so the cycle repeats.

He said that if you exit a marriage as the healthy partner, OR as a formerly unhealthy person who has been willing to do the work to become emotionally healthy, then there is no reason at all to expect that you can't find a wonderful second marriage that will last -- provided that you've learned to avoid hooking up with unhealthy people.

From that perspective, I think the people who have found their way here, have gone through the self-discovery process and really committed to improving themselves are truly blessed, despite all the pain and hardship that the situation has caused. You come out of this, Adinva, as a much more self-actualized person, with much better relationship tools than you had coming in. I believe that will increase your capacity for happiness as well as your ability to achieve it for the rest of your life, regardless of what happens with H, and that is a gift.

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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Thank you for that post Accuray. This place has truly been a blessing.


TPS
Me: 44 H: 42
M14 T17
S10 D7
10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month
21/04/12 H is 'DONE'
04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010)
July '14 H ends affair
May '15 H moves back home
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Ad, you are a wonderful and amazingly strong woman. I am fascinated to read how you have developed your self awareness and your growth and understanding of your sitch and your H. Your kids are blessed to have a mother like you and anyone that has the honor of knowing you is blessed as well.


TPS
Me: 44 H: 42
M14 T17
S10 D7
10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month
21/04/12 H is 'DONE'
04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010)
July '14 H ends affair
May '15 H moves back home
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,877
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adinva Offline OP
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Hi Acc. Beautifully written, thank you so much! I would "ditto" the whole thing. I would also comment that I am happy. I'm happier than I've been in a while, because I have tools I didn't know I had for when things don't go the way I want them to, and because I don't see my happiness as dependent on a specific person's behavior or feelings anymore, and because while I always thought things tended to slip from good to bad I now see how they can go from bad to good. I have more hope. I have to credit DB forums for a lot of that because I was really enmeshed with my H's moods and behavior and felt nearly destroyed by his rejection at first, EVEN THOUGH I've always been a really strong independent person with good self esteem. I had a few things wrong and this board helped set me on a better track.

Acc though, I'm going to call out something you slipped in the middle that I don't believe:
Quote:
My biggest fear going through this process has been that if our marriage ends in D, that I will not find another person who I will feel as attracted to as I do to my W.

Cross that bridge when you come to it. I feel like I know you and her pretty well from all this time; we joined at almost the same time after all, way back. You have worked SO hard to maintain your attraction to her that I don't know if you realize there will be people you don't have to work so hard with. I think the challenge of her unique spin has kept you in work-hard mode, and of course you're not a man to look around for better alternatives. Do not act from that fear you stated, Acc. You are a real catch, and your relationships don't need to be so hard. Do what you're doing, for as long as it's the right thing to do. I would never tell you not to. But don't worry for a minute that you couldn't be attracted to someone else, once your heart knows your relationship with W is done and becomes open to others I believe you'll have no problem.


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
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Happiness is a warm puppy.
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Posts: 733
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I just wanted to say, reading your threads and everything you post gives me such hope. To see what you have gone/going through and that you have chosen to move towards a happier you is inspiring.

I love what you just wrote above:

"I was really enmeshed with my H's moods and behavior and felt nearly destroyed by his rejection at first, EVEN THOUGH I've always been a really strong independent person with good self esteem. I had a few things wrong and this board helped set me on a better track."

This is exactly how I feel. I'm just at the beginning, but I already feel like I'm on a better track.


M: 9 yrs
T: 13 yrs
H:34 Me:35, S4, D2, S 7 months
Dday 11/12-PA & multiple PAs
Dbing 12/12
S 1/13
7/13 H moved back in basement.
8/13 #3 born
10/13 still cheating
10/13 He moves across country, I file for D
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,877
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adinva Offline OP
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Hey Busting, thank you so much. I don't feel deserving of such words but they sure make me feel good. The act of writing my thoughts here has been my way of really examining them and holding them up to gauge their accuracy. It's really nice to know people are here reading and care. Thank you.


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
__
Happiness is a warm puppy.
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Posts: 1,049
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Adinva,

I want you to know that child support is considered to be all the support he has to give. I learned this the hard way when during talks we just agreed to split auto insurance cost, sports, camps etc. However, as that is not written in the final docs.....he doesn't have to provide anymore than the CS obligation. Lesson learned!

With two teenagers driving you can imagine that my insurance is very high. Plus the cost of senior year and teenagers. But I go without so the can have what they need.

He has not even bought a pencil for either one of our kids. AND since S has turned 18 .....nothing.

We are currently back in court of Post secondary education expenses. He makes almost $200,000 per year so I can't imagine why he won't help!


M:47
M:18
D16, S19
1st S 1/08-5/08
Reconciled/May 7, 2008
Left again Nov 9, 2009
I Filed: Nov 17, 2009
Final: April 14, 2010
EX walked away from kids too



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Oy...

Thanks Ad for sharing your challenges as you navigate thru this D negotiation process and to 25, sandycay and everyone for the wise advice and personal experiences they are sharing as well.

I am also in the midst of such painful negotiations with my H and we have similar financial discrepancies as Ad and her H, so I am learning a lot from this.

(((((Ad)))))


Me & H: 44
D7, D6, S3
Together: 20y, M: 17y
EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10
EA becomes PA: Spring 2011
H filed for D: 09/06/12
D Negotiating began 2/15
OW seemingly gone on 3/15
Still negotiating D






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