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#2316519 01/21/13 05:48 PM
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Hey all, it's been a while since I journaled here. Here is a link to my first thread for those unfamiliar with my journey:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...587#Post2271587

First, a quick synopsis. After nearly 20 years of marriage, W and I had a small argument followed by the silent treatment (from both of us) followed by me reaching out to her telling her I wanted to sit down and talk about the issues we've had for years (basically living as roommates and coparents) and how to overcome those issues. We had that meeting and that's when I got the bomb. Then followed the usual stuff- begging, pleading, counseling, finally DB'ing. W continued to say over and over again that while she appreciated all the changes I had made and felt I was now "the perfect husband", she was not interested in trying to work things out. Her exact words were "I just don't want to try". I heard it over and over again both in and out of counseling. So she finally said she wanted to leave, I told her that I wanted her to be happy and if leaving was what would make her happy then I supported her decision. And leave she did.

That was just over 4 months ago. Since she left we have had 50-50 custody of the younger kids on a weekly basis. The older daughter is in college and had stayed mostly with me when she comes in town. W and I have gotten along well throughout, we haven't argued or even said a single harsh word to each other since well before BD.

I've pretty well detailed my detachment and GAL in the other threads, so I won't touch on that in this post other than to say that things have gone well on that front.

Because of the kids, W and I see each other pretty often, because even on her weeks the kids come to my house after school and she has to pick them up. We've also gone together on almost every function involving the kids. But, our relationship has been like friendly neighbors. No touching, no intimacy, no heavy talks.

In November I finally broached the D subject with W, told her I was ready to move on and that I thought we should sit down in January to work out the details. To my surprise she said she didn't want to yet, that she was still confused. At that time I asked her if she would consider going to the next RetroV session in January, that maybe the communication tools would help us to figure out where we're going from here regardless of whether we reconcile or not. She said no. She also said her confusion stemmed from her worries about hurting the kids, not from any interest in getting back together with me.

Something changed in me at that point, I felt that there truly was no chance of reconciliation ever. I started dating (W and kids know, but I have kept that separate from my life with them up to this point). I've met some wonderful, amazing women. I never realized just how low my self-esteem was until starting to date again, and it wasn't just low due to BD, it had been in the gutter for years and years. These women are clear that the R is NSA, not due to any hope on my part of reconciliation but just because I'm not ready for another serious R yet. Now I'm not suggesting that dating is good DB'ing, I'm just giving you a true and honest picture of my sitch. Like it or hate it, it is what it is. I'm just sharing my journey for those who are interested.

About a month ago W was leaving after picking the kids up and she came over next to me. I sensed she wanted a hug, but I didn't pursue it. I said "goodnight" and walked away. The next night she came over and this time she hugged me. First time she's initiated a hug since BD. So I hugged her back. Then she started reaching out in emails, wishing me a good day. Things I haven't heard in quite a while. Then she put together the yearly Christmas letter that she always sends out, and strangely enough the whole thing reads like we're still one big happy family. Then she asks what I want for Christmas. I told her I thought we were past exchanging gifts, and that this year it would be all about the kids. But she said that she was buying me things anyway. And then the real surprise, she sent me an email just before Christmas that SHE was signing us up for RetroV.

RetroV was this past weekend. For those of you that don’t know what RetroV is, I encourage you to do a word search on it here and read the threads that discuss it, and also to have a look at their web site (Google “Retrouvaille”). You will be able to gather enough info to get a general understanding of what it is, but you will not find specifics. This is intentional. It is extremely important to go into it with no preconceptions of what it is and what will be done. At the end of the weekend they specifically tell you what you should and should not tell others about the program, and those that have gone before have done an admirable job of respecting that. And I will too. What I can tell you is it will teach you communication skills that I promise you do not have right now. And it will do it in a way that you’ve never explored. It is an overwhelmingly emotional weekend and you will leave it completely exhausted, but probably more optimistic about your R then you’ve ever been before. I had read many stories about how people go into this weekend barely talking, angry at each other, sitting there in the room on Friday night stiff as boards. By Sunday these same people are holding hands, putting their arms around each other, talking, laughing and even crying. It’s absolutely true, I saw these very things myself, even between W and me. I don’t want to imply that marriage problems turn around in one weekend, I doubt that’s the case for anyone. But couples come to realize that they can connect on a much deeper level than they thought possible, and that they’re getting tools that can allow them to turn things around if they’re willing to put some work in. There are followup sessions and it’s important to attend them, there are also brief exercises to do between the sessions. RetroV teaches a process that is to be continued for life, and sticking with the process is the key to making your marriage work. There are 3 hosting couples, they are volunteers and they have all had extreme marital problems themselves and have all saved their marriages beginning with RetroV. Their stories are inspirational, I don’t think there was a dry eye in the room after hearing these people share what they went through. In our case one couple attended RetroV 17 years ago and they have been volunteering ever since. Even now after having told RetroV groups their story countless times, they still can’t stop the tears when they share their grief, shame, pain and finally joy over what they went through and how they transformed their M.

I know some people here encourage others to go to RetroV if at all possible (IE, try as hard as you can to get your spouse to go even if they don’t want to), but W said that even 2 months ago she would not have been ready and it likely wouldn’t have been a positive experience. So for what it’s worth, timing may or may not be an issue for you and your spouse.

I’m sure you’re curious where W and I are now in our M. I wish I could state that in definitive terms, but I can’t. W has said that she’s willing to try, but her commitment to trying is not real clear. However, that’s a huge step for her because she spent months saying she didn’t want to try at all and that she was “done”. She expressed a lot of fear over the weekend. She was nervous and afraid going into RetroV and in fact said that the only way she could go was to remember her car was in the parking lot and she could leave at any time. Once the weekend was underway and she started to get an idea of what the experience would be like, she was OK with it although it was very difficult and emotional for her. She is in a difficult spot regarding the M, because she is willing to try to get back together, but she has a tremendous amount of fear about it too. “Scared” and “afraid” are the exact words she used. First I told her it was fine to feel that way, then I asked her if she knew what she was afraid of and she said she wasn’t sure. She feels like she has internal issues she needs to address and she just changed to a new IC because the old one wasn’t helping her in that regard. One thing that became clear over the weekend was that a lot of the soul-searching and personal growth that I went through as a result of BD, she has not even begun to do. She actually expressed some jealousy that I have already gone through that process and have come to a better place in life while she hasn’t. She wants to be there too, but doesn’t know how to get there yet.

W also confirmed that a lot of the DB’ing techniques that we talk about here were indeed effective in our R. She said that when she saw me change after BD she resented it, she wondered why it was so “easy” for me to change after so many years of undesirable behavior and it made her wonder why I couldn’t have done it before. She thought I was doing it for selfish reasons (mainly to get her back). She said it took months before she realized I really was different and that the changes were permanent and weren’t specifically for her, but a personal transformation of me. She said that I had swung so far from one extreme to the other, that she feels now that even if I do backslide a little I would still be a far better husband than ever before. She mentioned my GAL activities and how glad she is to see me make a life for myself and get out and do things. She said that before BD I spent too much time at home, that she saw me as being something of a hermit (she didn’t use that word, but it’s the only way I can think of to get the thought across). Interestingly, she said when I took over all the house responsibilities after BD (I started doing everything she was doing in addition to what I was doing) that it had a negative effect on her rather than positive. She said it told her that I didn’t need her anymore, that I could do everything without her. However, I still think in the long run this is positive because she needs to know that I don't need her, but I do want her.

W did communicate to me that she’s been thinking about what reconciling would look like and picturing it in her head. She mentioned that she wants me to continue my GAL activities (she specifically mentioned the weight lifting and the motorcycle group I’ve been riding with). She said she wants us to cook together, and she mentioned a session before Christmas where she came to my house and I helped her make some candy, she really enjoyed it and wants life to be like that- us working together on things. She wants to eat at the table together as a family and pray before we eat. She wants the kids to push their chairs in and take their dishes to the sink without being told. Everything she described was along those lines. No talk of big fancy vacations or expensive shopping sprees, LOL! I assured her that what she was describing is what I long for as well.

W has also started owning her part in the marital difficulties. She is just now starting to blame herself for much of what has happened. During one part of RetroV she told me through tears that she is a liar and betrayed me by pretending she was something that she wasn't. This is a long story touched on in the other thread, but she's talking about the fact that she accumulated tens of thousands of dollars in debt over many years and kept it secret from me. I assured her that I had a big part in that problem as well, because she was afraid I would react angrily and so avoided communicating it to me. She kept saying over and over again it wasn't just my fault. I just held her and let her get it out and told her I forgive her.

I told W that while I am prepared to live life without her, what I really want is for us to share our lives together; and that I wanted her back as a partner in marriage, not a subordinate to me which is more like what we had before (there’s more on why and how that happened in my earlier thread). She broke down in tears and just held onto me. She said it’s what she wants too, but she’s scared. I told her that she left once and if we get back together and our M isn’t what she wants then there’s nothing to stop her from leaving again. She said “how do you know I won’t do that, aren’t you afraid of that?” I said “of course I am, but that’s what will give me the incentive to never fall back into those old patterns and to always work to keep our M on track.”

W is committed to continuing the RetroV exercises and says she wants to go to the follow-up sessions. So for now that’s where things are. My greatest challenge is to remain patient and not try to hurry things along. And I’ve never had much patience smile


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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AS

Thank you for sharing your story of hope. I really needed that this morning. Good Luck!

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Wow, that sounds great AS! Congrats!

I agree on the timing of retrouv....for me, I think my W wasn't ready when we went. She wasn't really open to it, and so she didn't get a lot out of it.


M:44 W:42
M:15
S:19, D:16, S:14, D:12, S:6
BD: 2/14/11
D Final: 6/25/13
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Awesome post and very insightful. I like the positive acclaims from your W about DBing! It sure is nice to have first hand knowledge that it helped.

I wish the best for you and your family. You seem to have it all coming together, AS! Keep up the good work and make sure to keep us all informed on your progress


Me:46 Her:38
My D: 11
Her S: 8


swoop #2316527 01/21/13 06:16 PM
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Awesome AS! SO glad to hear things are at least pointed in the right direction. Anyone familiar with this board knows how much time and effort you put in trying to help others (myself included) which makes it all the more rewarding to hear the progress you've made.

I look forward to hearing more about your journey smile


M-38
W-32
D7, S4
M-10
BD-May '12
S for 1 month-June '12
Reconcile, Piecing
BC39 #2316533 01/21/13 06:41 PM
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Wow, wow and Wow, AS!

I guess you can be a true believer in the DBing technique after your story! I am so happy that your W is willing to give your M a try. You deserve it. All of us do, but not all us get that opportunity.

I wish you the best as I know there's still a lot of work for you to do, but you are headed in the right direction! smile


M- 18 T-21
S-14,11 & 10
BD 6-18-2012 (OW-EA)
H moved out 11-3-2012
10-5-13 Me- I want a divorce. I want to move on w my life.
11-25-13 Jointly filed.
littleGTO #2316569 01/21/13 08:26 PM
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I'll admit, I've been emotional the last 2 days, was doing good but for some reason (was thinking / missing my D3) it hit hard.

I just got back home, been at a friend's place. I didn't read / keep up with your previous threads, but read a little.

Reading this, (yes, the whole thing).. I'm teared up. I can't express how happy I am to hear good things from you. Maybe because it gives hope? Or could be just that I'm 100% happy for you, for your family to be making some progress, as someone else said, "in the right direction"

Don't want to jynx anything but it does sound very positive.

I truly hope you guys continue on this positive path.


M: 36/W: 28
T 11yrs / M 7yrs /1x 3yo D
Sept: W Cheated w/ teen, BDrop. W Beast. Hated me.
Oct: 18 (M license)W Asked for D
Oct: 31 (Anniverary)W Paid Lawyer
Nov1st: Both moved.
Dewayne #2316587 01/21/13 09:51 PM
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AS - this is a great post. Not sure we have Retrov over here, there maybe something similar but my M is a million miles from anything like it anyway.

Your story certainly gives us hope!


M - 37 W - 35
T - 11 M - 5.5
SD13 D10 S4
ILYBINILWY 15 Oct '12
Moved out 7 Dec 12
At present - Being the best dad i can be.
Dewayne #2316603 01/21/13 11:15 PM
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That's great AS. Very inspiring. Thank you for sharing.

Melting #2316615 01/22/13 12:45 AM
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AS.... If any deserves the next step it is you. Your story and advice have been inspirations. Your thoughtfulness when answering my questions and your own queries have shown a growth I can only aspire to. I wish you all the happiness, all the best in this new and exciting path! ((()))

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