WAS vs. LBS

[Crazyville]

Hi, keep_going. In spite of my insight from the WAS perspective, I actually have a real empathy for the LBS. Not all LBS's were given a fair chance. There are always two sides to each story, and if you listen carefully, I believe you can learn something from both sides.

At least for me, my vows were a promise to always keep trying no matter what.

What was the visible evidence of this in your daily life? Hopefully more than just not D'ing. Was there actual effort or just the effort of trying? This is hard for me to reconcile since you said that neither of you really knew what to do.

but I cannot ultimately fix this R on my own.

This is absolutely right, for both the LBS and the WAS. It only takes one to destroy a M and requires two for it to be successful.

I have to approach the R pretty much as the one I have with my children. I love them, regardless of if they succeed or not. I love them for their effort and I will love them no matter what.

Loving them is one thing, of course you'll love them unconditionally. But hopefully, they won't still be living in your house being supported by you when they're 35. Likewise, I can feel love for my H but still expect him to be a contributing ADULT. If I have to relate to my H as a child, then I will have absolutely no sexual attraction to him at all.

I do now see the silver lining in my situation. Without this bomb, I probably would have never looked at myself.

That is awesome! I think that's the primary focus of DB. It's definitely a lesson that no one should want to have to learn twice, and whether you salvage this M or not, it will help you in your next one.

I also was extremely naive and believed that we could keep the feelings of the honeymoon period alive indefinitely without any hard work.

I don't know if this is naive or just wishful. I think we all thought that when we first M'd and we were on top of the world. You were very young when you got together, which I'm sure contributed to that.

On the other hand, I am not completely pesimistic. I do believe that love is a choice and that we can bring back loving feelings when they have subsided. Unfortunately my H doesn't believe this at all. He thinks love just happens to you and you are powerless to change your feelings, hence why he will not give up his R with OW even if he saw the changes he wanted in me.

This is interesting. I've seen this debated both ways. For me, I don't know how to "create" feelings of love for someone. Imagine the least attractive person you know, someone that has bad hygiene habits, rude behavior and an abbrassive personality. Could you imagine yourself "creating loving feelings for them" if you were arranged a M to them? I don't think I can.

I will say I believe you can squash feelings of love, or perhaps they just fade on their own and you think you squashed them. I confess to once having very strong feelings for the H of a friend of ours. It was so bad that I would get all flustered when he walked in the room and could barely hold a conversation with him. I certainly didn't choose to feel this way in the first place. But I knew it was completely inappropriate and it would never go anywhere! He never knew anything about it, of course. Eventually I just got over it. Now whether that was my doing or just time, I couldn't really say.

[Soul.Searching]

See this is where I'm confused because if anything, it was the other way around!

Sorry, Lisa.7, that would be very confusing. However, if that's true, then you might actually be in a very good spot to get him back. WAS's in that case I believe tend to find the grass was greener at home. Of course, then it's you that gets to decide if you want him back.

I assume he's given you some reasons for his leaving. I'll have to jump to your thread and catch up with your sitch. It doesn't sound like your sitch came about very long ago.

Yes he gave me reason, reasons that changed almost daily. First there was no reason, then there was that he couldn't take the crap any longer. That he felt like a little school boy in trouble all the time.
Okay his 31 he should know himself If there are bills that need to be paid that week and things the kids need for school, then going to the pub or buying himself some new toy, should wait until everything is paid.
Another example: I don't think it is appropriate for him to post on his coworkers topless photo saying "Wow that's hot, I need more pics from that night."
If Me telling him I don't find that appropriate, is me treating him like a school boy then I'm guilty.
Then I got the ILYBIDKIILWY.
Then I got that I didn't wear dresses and do my nails.
Then I got that I deserve better.
Then I got that I didn't wear makeup often enough. I should wear it to work. Cos me wearing makeup to work affects him how?
Then I got that we both derserve better.
Then I got that he didn't know if he had made the right choice, wanted to try again.
Then he went to another state for work and started adding random chicks that live there to his Facebook and he completely ignored me, not wanting to try again.
He did tell me he loved me the other day while ending a phone conversation. I don't know if it slipped out or what but I was shocked, didn't say it back, was just wondering if he meant to say it.

[Crazyville]

Sorry, Lisa.7. ((())) It's hard to do 180's when the target keeps changing daily. Besides, some of those are things you can't/shouldn't do a 180 about.

He is right about one thing. You do deserve better.

I can't help you much with a WAS perspective on this one. I don't have any of those reasons and can't even justify them. His sounds more like a MLC than anything. Or at least that he is very immature.

I wonder how he would react if you suddenly started adding random men to your facebook account?

[Soul.Searching]

Lol, I've wondered that myself but I have my facebook deactivated right now. I've wondered the same thing CV but I dont want to add random men to my FB. So I don't think I should do it just to see his reaction. I don't want to be spiteful.

I do think he is possibly going through a MLC but I was reading a thread on here about all the MLC signs. Seems like he has had a lot of them for years. Then I realized they said depression sign #1 etc so I looked up depression in men. Seems a lot of the time, they don't show the unhappy side of depression, they show it via mood swings and angry etc.
I'm thinking H may have been depressed for years and has now escalated to MLC. I never realized how different men and woman show the signs of depression!
I know it's not up to me to "diagnose" him but it does make a difference to me. If he really is going through something like this, then maybe there is hope for us, if/ when he comes out the other side. However if this is just him, then I don't know that he will ever change.
Him leaving changed me too. I know now that I can not go back to how things were. I do derserve better! If he can't change and grow, then although this is a long hard road, that I didn't want to be on, maybe it could be best in the long run.

As for 180, well im doing a couple towards him. I'm sure sometimes he says things trying to push my buttons. I'm not letting him know if it botheres me. Nearly every time I talk to him he tells me he is on his way out (drinking) I simply tell him to have fun. If he is 31 and just wants to party and not worry about conceerquence and money than so be it.
Just don't call me from a gutter and expect me to stay on the phone on google maps, trying to help your drunken arse home.

The rest if the 180 are for me and me alone. To help me become a better person and a better mother etc. I've been reading DR and I realized I probably could give my children more positive encouragement. Things like that.

[tori2012]

Lisa, I just read your latest threads. Your H is acting a lot like my H--like a teenager. But this is common behavior for a WAS--which he is, based on his behavior and on his remarks. I like your 180's. Let him get in trouble and get out of trouble on his own.
I liked DB a lot--more than DR. Make sure you read it too.

[Soul.Searching]

Thanks Tori. I was told about DR and didn't even realize about DB at first. Maybe I should try to get that too then? I thought DR was like a newer version of DB! So it's not just like a outdated copy of DR?

[tori2012]

Actually, I think DB is the newest book. This is the one in which Michelle actually says that sometimes LRT does not work and to accept the risks of that. I think these techniques work when applied early enough.

[tori2012]

Ok, I was wrong. I checked my books and DR is the newest version of the book. I'm glad you are reading that one...

[Crazyville]

Okay, here's one for the LBS'ers. Please tell me what you see is going on here, because this is the sort of thing that's happening constantly in my M that is causing me to leave.

C: BTW, if you’re going to help me out by taking S12 to school, then I need for him to be there on time. You were late this morning.
H: No we weren’t. I even asked S12.
C: Yes, you were. He’s late at 7:50 and you didn’t even leave the house until 7:50.
H: No, we weren’t. There were even other cars arriving the same time we were.
C: That doesn’t mean you weren’t late, that just means they were late, too. The student handbook says he’s supposed to be there by 7:50. After 7:55, he’s supposed to arrive with a written excuse. After 8:00, the guardian is supposed to walk into the school with him and the note.
H: Well I didn’t realize you read the student handbook.
C: Okay, but you do realize I’ve been managing getting him to school since he was in pre-kindergarten. Wouldn’t that at least give me some credibility that I might know what time he needs to be there, regardless of my source?
H: Well I take him sometimes, too, and he said he wasn’t late.
C: Well perhaps I’m wrong. (C goes to her laptop and opens the online student handbook and reads the section about school start.) Okay, I’m wrong. It changed from last year. It says their preferred drop-off time is 7:45. (C reads the paragraph outloud.)
H: (H yells to the kitchen to where S12 is making a drink.) S12, were you late for school this morning?
C: OMG!!!! Why are you asking him? I just read it straight from the student handbook published by the school. I understand that you give me zero credibility, but how can you discount the published school policy? Do you think I was lying as I read it to you? Do you need to go online and read it yourself??
Nevermind. Just forget it. I don’t need your help getting S12 to school. I want him to be there in accordance with school policy, so I will get him there myself. You are not doing me any favors when this is what I have to deal with.

I get constant bickering, zero credibility. It seems like if I say the sky is blue, I'll get an argument. I've taken a position of sharing absolutely nothing with him so he has nothing to contradict.

Your thoughts?

[goldeylox]

CV, a very thought-provoking thread. I find many similarities in our sitches.
What I think I heard resembles many of our conversations.
Sorry if I am too blunt...
I only mention it because I used to do the same thing (right down to the parent handbook thing) and even backslide now...
Perhaps leading with, "You were late" was not a good idea.
Peace,
Goldeylox