Hanging out, down the street

[JustStunned]

Yep, motley crew indeed. The puggle is normally dominant in his house. That doesn’t fly when I visit. Humans need to be pack leaders. (Channeling Caesar Milan) and I think that is why I was able to pull it off successfully.

Oddly enough I think being pack lead to the Mastiff was a factor in our divorce. It certainly allowed me to see some of the destructive drama occurring in the day to day interactions between X and myself.

The mastiff became lame about 6 weeks ago. I took him to the vet. It’s a torn or ruptured ACL. We won’t know for certain until after surgery. He goes under the knife in May. It is expensive. It will consume my tax refund. He is at mid life. If the damage can be repaired he has a good chance at a good quality of life for the next 4 to 5 years. It is my choice.

And there has been drama about tax returns. X has been emailing me about her travails regarding the exorbitant amount she owes. Either I engineered it or I should have warned her or I should help her find funds to pay what she owes. I have not replied. The only response anyone has gotten from me on the subject was, “She chose to take to take the full distribution as cash”, when my DIL brought up X’s IRS trouble.

It is a mute point now. The last email from X informed me God had provided a means of paying her debt in a lump sum. I do not know what exactly that means and after pondering it for a bit I am still puzzled. I am attempting to attribute this latest bump on the rollercoaster to “Oh well, you’ll have moments when none of it makes any sense”.

I hope you’ll respect this. My faith is personal. My relationship to God is my relationship. When X ran, she ran to friends from High School. Her friends have formed a church and they evangelize as part of their faith. X has decided our children need to be saved and is pursuing so with vigor. It is one of the stressors the children speak to me about and I have alluded to. Our Daughter has decided she wishes nothing more to do with X until X “comes to her senses”. I hope they work something out.

I believe that will be a long time coming. X does not accept our Daughter is gay and our Daughter has placed her acceptance as a condition.

Lastly, I am putting one foot in front of the other, getting stronger and more centered as time goes on. Good times ahead.

[JustStunned]

One year came and went. I did not realize it had been a year until I began to compose this update. Looking back the 24th was the day I replaced Mom’s hot water heater. I did not anticipate plumbing another gas supply line and this necessitated a second trip to the hardware store.

I have been waffling between being glad it is over and grateful she chose to end our relationship and marriage. I am glad it is over. Looking back the relationship was toxic and affected more than just us negatively. I find it difficult to have gratitude for the manner she chose and that I was not able to be part of the decision. I recognize it is all water under the bridge now.

The other day DIL made a comment about me and when I will be ready to move on. I think she was referring to when I will begin another relationship as moving on. This is not my definition of moving on. I do not think moving on should be predicated upon being in a committed relationship.

I gave her the same response I gave the pastor a few weeks prior when he inquired if I was looking. “I may begin looking for another relationship after I become content with myself and can be happy being me.” I spent too much time as a half. It is time I became whole again.

It is laudable that so many of us are looking for and finding relationships. I read each of the entries in these threads. I do not comment as I have little to add other than a caution and I believe when I am ready if I read a caution it might cause me to hesitate long enough to miss an opportunity.

My son ran the Tough Mudder in Mansfield yesterday and was quite satisfied with his performance. I hope to catch up with him sometime this week. We exchanged a few texts at the end of the day and I understand he finished with the group ahead of the one he started with.

I spent the beginning of the week in Louisville. Turkey hunting, catching up with my cousin and his wife and watching Thunder. It was a good way to start the week.

[gunny]

Hey Stunned,
I was just out in Mansfied two weeks ago, and lousiville the week before that. We are traveling in the same circles, maybe sometime we bump into each other. Glad to hear you are leaning forward!

Semper Fidelis
Doug

[needgrace]

“I may begin looking for another relationship after I become content with myself and can be happy being me.” I spent too much time as a half. It is time I became whole again.

Hi JS,

i always love to read your posts. so full of wisdom. thank you.

i really like your statement above about how you will know when you are ready. i have been thinking about that too, get asked about it sometimes and do not know what to say, except that it will happen in it's own time... (i find the question very telling as to how disposable society views M, as i am not even D yet, it is a few weeks away.)

i think your answer is what i truly mean.. thank you.

[Valeska19]

One year came and went. I did not realize it had been a year until I began to compose this update. Looking back the 24th was the day I replaced Mom’s hot water heater. I did not anticipate plumbing another gas supply line and this necessitated a second trip to the hardware store.

I have been waffling between being glad it is over and grateful she chose to end our relationship and marriage. I am glad it is over. Looking back the relationship was toxic and affected more than just us negatively. I find it difficult to have gratitude for the manner she chose and that I was not able to be part of the decision. I recognize it is all water under the bridge now.

Perhaps it is.. or perhaps it will continue to be the catalyst of change for you.

The other day DIL made a comment about me and when I will be ready to move on. I think she was referring to when I will begin another relationship as moving on. This is not my definition of moving on. I do not think moving on should be predicated upon being in a committed relationship.

Good thinking.

I gave her the same response I gave the pastor a few weeks prior when he inquired if I was looking. “I may begin looking for another relationship after I become content with myself and can be happy being me.” I spent too much time as a half. It is time I became whole again.

Yes.. and as I am learning...that takes time. It's hard to be patient sometimes.. but we didn't go through he!! to do the same thing twice!

It is laudable that so many of us are looking for and finding relationships. I read each of the entries in these threads. I do not comment as I have little to add other than a caution and I believe when I am ready if I read a caution it might cause me to hesitate long enough to miss an opportunity.

I can understand this. Just remember.. it's just a cup of coffee.. or a conversation. It doesn't have to hold so much power.

You're doing fine JS. Just continue to keep moving at your own pace.

((( )))

[BeingMe]

Hi JS! I like how you expressed that you had been a half for too long, and need to be whole before entering the dating scene (or words to that extent). I feel the same. I'm not even divorced yet, and friends want me to go onto dating sites. No thanks. I need lots of counseling before I get anywhere near to one of those, if ever. I've been a half for too long too. I'm loyal to the extreme (it will override trust, love) and I'm finding it hard to break free from that aspect of my personality, no matter what my H did.

I'm also glad it's over, but I'm also having a hard time getting to the point of complete breakaway. I'm not emotionally involved anymore, but there's just that something that's keeping me from following through with the D. How did you do it?

Thanks for your wise words.

[JustStunned]

I appreciate feedback on my thread very much. I don’t anticipate it much anymore. I have been remiss responding to your fine posts. I apologize.

@Gunny I am constantly reminded just how small this world is perhaps we will bump into each other. Fair warning I carry a challenge coin for just such occasions.
Semper Fidelis

@Needgrace I am humbled that anything I post on this board could be considered wisdom. I am very happy if I have contributed. I am just another soul trying to make passage and heal along the way. Thank you for your kind words. I think the collective wisdom of the people on this board benefits us all. It has me.

Hey Val Do we push each other or what? Sometimes, even without intention. I have found things to be grateful for that are resultant from the D. I am just not able to find peace with the manner X chose. I do not have regrets with my actions or mindset and there is peace there.

You’re right it is just a cup of coffee or maybe even less at this point. Someone I have known for several years is deepening our friendship. I have no expectations. I have interest and getting out and about with different people will add confidence. I am taking life as it comes.

@BeingMe I wish I had something for you. I did not initiate these actions. She quit, left and filed in roughly a years time. I understand her support structure was encouraging her to do so.

We had been codependent for many years. What I saw as growth away from this she saw as abandonment. So in a way she thinks I quit. How the onion is peeled really depends upon the point of view of the peeler.

I understand loyalty. Honor, Courage, Commitment are still guiding principles in my world. I follow your thread on MLC loosely. It seems to me you have a decision yet to make. In my experience commitment to a decision to act is often the most difficult part. (((())))

And lastly
I took Thursday and Friday of this week off.

Thursday I put another checkmark on the bucket list doing a tandem jump from 10,000 feet. It was not the adrenaline rush I expected. I think this was because I had complete faith in the equipment and the jumpmaster. I have a better rush when deer hunting or white water rafting and I think this is because I have more control of the outcome. I am considering budgeting for jump school. I have the prerequisite tandem jump checked off and perhaps as I gain control I’ll find the thrill of the sport.

Friday, today I was to take my granddaughter and DIL to the local zoo. DIL looked at the weather forecast and decided the art museum was more attractive. Then this morning one of her pets fell ill and I babysat at the last minute during an emergency trip to the vet. That took most of the day. Semper Gumby.

My granddaughter is a little doll and DIL appreciates the assistance. It is all good.

I happened to be part of a conversation with SIL1 and SIL2 about their parents last week. We agreed the best way to get along with them is to have no expectations. This lead to an epiphany of sorts. I know I should know this from all of you. I was able to personalize it…finally. This has lead to more understanding of X and some of the troubles we shared.

[JustStunned]

I hate the emotive upheavals. Short though they are they are still disruptive.

I dreamt X wanted to and was trying to reconcile. I puzzled is this something I am wishing for, or something I fear? I still do not know. I have no time to waste upon it and although it took a bit of time and effort to stop wondering I have walked away from the coaster.

DIL asks if I am amiable to her family moving in. So I may have house guests again. Might be longer this time, might not happen. Time will tell. July or there abouts. We’ll see.

Making my list of pros and cons.

Anybody out there have their adult children move back in? Might be for a couple of years. Biggest concern is damaging the progress I have made and the relationships I have with them.

[25yearsmlc]

JS

I am only now caught up and am on my way out of town so I have to be brief...which is of course, a relative term.


I love your ability to articulate difficult emotions with subtlety and nuance. I get it.

Anyhow, I have at least one gay daughter, maybe two. I do NOT agree with your x wife's views and find it ironic that any WAW with children would decide on THIS path to salvation...

(="compensate much?")

But if it's true that both my girls are gay, of course I ask myself
how it could NOT be related to how h and I did not model a healthy marriage at a key point in their lives?

We once had a wonderfully rewarding marriage and one in which we both achieved a lot, and were crazy about our kids...

I now think I don't have to understand "why" they are who they are. I merely have to accept and love them as they are.

So maybe enough with the blame...it only makes it seem that I think they are "wrong"...and I don't want that message to come from me.

I'm far more concerned with their choosing a mate well, than with what else society or some family members might say.

I have had my own "coming out" with this and it has not been as easy as I would have guessed. IT's been a real process for me and I'm still in it.

Thankfully I never came from a place of condemnation or trying to save them from a sin...just not believing it in one case, and feel worry and fear for them both.

I have many gay friends but when it is your d, and maybe "all" your d's, it still feels like some sort of failing on my end...

not b/c they are "wrong" but b/c I worry I must have been...if that makes any sense...and let me admit up front, I want to be a grandmother someday.

Sure, it can still happen but it's one dream I have to let go of (meaning, the method of how it happens IF it happens, is not up to me).

Anyhow, NONE of this is their problem...it's mine and yes sometimes it affects the R with h b/c I know they resent him a lot...more than I realized.


of all the issues now at hand, THERE is one big one, which is THEIR R's with h.

H and I are reconciled. IT's not perfect and it can be rocky. But I know there is love and commitment...

sometimes I worry that the adult kids' negative comments are patently unfair to h,

other times I worry that I am in denial...

Things can be smooth with h and I but when the kids are mixed in, I realize how left out of the reconciliation process they were. They did not attend Retrovaille or witness h's breakthroughs, etc.

I think that's on me...(and h) but I mean, it's on US for somehow not bringing them along. If I could write a chapter in DB, it would be on how to bring your kids with you along the journey

whether you reconcile or not, you need to heal and show them how...

You raise some other issues I hope I can help with b/c I'm dealing with some, so perhaps it'll only be with the comment

"Me too"...

I hate the emotive upheavals. Short though they are they are still disruptive.

I dreamt X wanted to and was trying to reconcile. I puzzled is this something I am wishing for, or something I fear? I still do not know. I have no time to waste upon it and although it took a bit of time and effort to stop wondering I have walked away from the coaster.

DIL asks if I am amiable to her family moving in. So I may have house guests again. Might be longer this time, might not happen. Time will tell. July or there abouts. We’ll see.

Making my list of pros and cons.


Anybody out there have their adult children move back in? Might be for a couple of years. Biggest concern is damaging the progress I have made and the relationships I have with them.

I am NOT familiar with your previous r with them so I'd need to know more before I can be of much help. Your past R with them will color how you see things and how they see things... it's not just in the past.

Since I am now having all 3 of my kids under one roof, let me mention a few hurdles. My youngest is in high school so of course she's here.

s26 moved out here with his GF in their own place. They did not work out, but he stayed back in our city, as ex gf went back east. Though he seemed resolute in his choice, s26 was also quite heartbroken...it was good we were there for him.

I'll never forget seeing her drive off in tears, and then his stoically seeing her off, only to turn back to us (= me and his sisters) with tears streaming down his face.

He said he mourned "what might have been, what he thought he had found and didn't have to look for anymore..." SIGH...

Since there is such a big age difference between s26 and our d15,
they only lived under one roof for 7 years,

so I LOVED the concept of his being here for awhile. Reminded me of times I thought had been lost forever. D24 and is also here. And he seemed to need us.

H was deployed to the Middle East last summer and his deployment terms were vague (4 months? 9 months? A year?) So he was going to be GONE and I'd be on my own with d15.

D24 was living on her own but came home mainly to help out with d15 and to save money. I liked and appreciated her return. Then s26 and his gf broke up, and he stayed with us while she returned to NYC.

They have said they'll be moving out within what is now, a few months.

So I found myself with the three of them under my roof again.

I am sure they want to move out, but they also are all very close to each other. And it's pricey to move out AND I THINK they like being here for d15.

Now h is back in the US but he works out of town during the week.

To the kids, this is a repeat of the past (albeit not so far like Alaska but in a few hours drive)

so he's home each weekend and plans on coming here when a similar job comes up in our hometown. This is in order to obtain a pension, which was supposed to have happened by now but seems delayed, again...(I'm not being paranoid, just tired of it).

They find this infuriating AND YET they also don't want him here more and 2 of them complain about him being here...a lot.

They pull me into their conflicts. I don't life feeling torn.

I now wish to reject that more, so my new "Policy" is to say "tell your dad that complaint, OR come to me with a solution proposed, b/c just complaining to me about my h, is not good for our marriage, or your r with him."

Sometimes they "gang up" and it gets tiresome...but that can happen in any situation with our children.

Here is my main concern for you.

I worry that your position is weakened b/c you have a grandchild and there is no way you'll toss them out if they cross your boundaries.

In my case, I WOULD have my kids leave if they were out of control or too respectful or disruptive, etc. I really believe I could do that if need be b/c I would do it with love. Meaning, I would do it because if they behave like selfish entitled beings, then my only way to alter them -this late in their life- is to hold them accountable.

it'd be an act of love and a form of discipline to remove them...I say that b/c a friend once told me that her mom kicking her out of the house when she dropped out of college and was not paying rent or working...was actually the kick in the pants she needed. Decades later SHE (my friend) is a great mother...so yes I think I could kick them out if I felt the need.

Or so I say

Point is, you'll have no leverage if they overstay their welcome. You may well feel powerless OR THEY may see you as being powerless...b/c after all, Are you going to make your grandchild homeless?

That's the rub. SHE is not responsible for their financial woes...and yet...

Are their problems due to economic conditions, or their wasteful spending or a rip off or their employment in a rough industry? (my older kids are actors and into film production...which comes with GREAT financial security ...)

or are they having hard time b/c of their mistakes? If this is mostly on them, and it probably is, what will change by their living with you?

Why won't they stay on longer? Why would they want to move out if the house is big enough and you can help with their dogs and childcare AND bills?


If you want to help them, and I know I would, I'd just get something decided with all 3 of you there. I don't know your r with them

but at least once, all 3 of you must agree with clarity about what the time limits are for this arrangement and what their expectations are and yours...

and what you need from them.

I find my oldest is surprised by my wanting help with the house and yard, WHEN I ask, and not when it's too dirty for him. That irks me.


I suggest your DIL NOT take on all that (b/c she's female and it seems to come naturally to us OR to those around us)

so be clear about some sort of "contribution" from them. Your son helping with projects or paying something or saving money and having a PLAN for when they'll leave and how...

Finally, child rearing...that's a biggie. (I think the DOGS will be an issue.
S26 and his gf both had dogs so we had a total of 4 dogs here.

My brilliant poodles don't shed, but their dogs were like chemo patients...fur everywhere...and debates about whos' dog peed where, was lovely...) plus son's dog is deaf and not bright

(hey, he's a PUG so he's a lover, not a thinker)

so if dog care was an issue that we "handled" but still found an undertone of stress inside...then imagine your feelings about their child rearing...

If you are not in alignment with their child rearing, (and what grandparent is??) you will need to STFU at times in your own home...yikes.

that would be hard for me.

But if you know the date they'll be in their own home, it'll help all parties.

And you can definitely bond well with your GD...that is NO small thing. I would love that part...

and if you keep on GAL and set boundaries with the GAL, maybe it'll end up being great for you AND your GD ...

And them!...

I know you will not to see it as a victory or "win" over your ex wife.


But she may well see it as a loss on HER end and if she's still keeping a scorecard, as most WASs do...

who knows how many points she'll deduct from you?

She may get more wound up saving your gay d, or saving them, or the granddaughter or whatever...

That can't matter or get inside you.

Make sense?

Now
I'm off to a family wedding. My closest brother's daughter is marrying...and it's costing a fortune but the sad part isn't the money (okay it's part of it)

but it's a marriage with little hope of lasting

(sorry for the cynicism but my niece is a selfish little 19 y/o having a "Barbie" wedding and no, I'm still not sure what that means.

The invitations were pink, if that helps. (I hoped it meant getting a cheap gift but I'm wrong...they only registered at the most expensive of places...)

but I do I expect the wedding to have great entertainment value.

It's sad of course but I'm going for my brother. I know He wished different things for her...

so in the grand scheme of things, when we contemplate our children's life styles, choices or how they just are,

I like to think that none of my kids would have a wedding/marriage that would cause great pain to a parent, as my niece's has for my brother...

So I'm going to it so my brother has another woman in his life - he can count on watching his back.

keep posting JS b/c

sometimes I think it's the post recon AND OR the post divorce

stories we need more of.

The storm has passed but there are more on the horizon b/c life is just that way.

We can't forget to get the tools we need and need to hone and gain more of, as life throws new curve balls our way.

My mom visited last month and her dementia is progressing rapidly. My oldest sister is a saint who has her full time so I do what I can when I can...

I saw some notes you had about your mom too...see, life never just "gets all worked out"...

we will always need tools and support and meaningful connections in our lives.

I'm grateful for the ones in my life. And I know you are too, which is why YOU are "getting all worked out"!

((( )))

[25yearsmlc]

wish we could edit!! (We used to be able to...what's up with that anyhow? Can we at least get an explanation? Thanks!)



yes I'd have them leave if they were too DISrespectful...disruptive, etc...but I don't have a grandchild I'd be dislodging...like you

and when I said I don't want my girls to feel wrong b/c they are gay, "but only one..."and that I did not see it as a sin "for one"

I mean I'm not so sure about one of them being gay and, however I do not think it's a sin to be gay...


but I don't want to get bogged down in who is what. I do find it interesting about the whole label thing.

I played softball in high school and college and sure, half the team was gay. But at our 20 year reunion, half of those "gay women" were married to men and had kids. Are they all in denial and repressed?

Might some of it have been experimentation back then? Or bisexuality and then a choice of mate was made?

But I am NOT ALLOWED to say that in my home,

b/c my d's feel very insulted by it. So I keep it to myself and attend some PFLAGG meetings.

Don't know where you are in your journey with that issue, as you barely mentioned it.

But I Found PFLAGG pretty understanding of all our stages and not judgemental. I felt at ease saying "I'm embarrassed to say I'm embarrassed"...they got it.


Did your wife resist your d being gay before she decided on her new religion, or after?

was that an issue for you guys? Did she blame you? Herself?

Evil friends?

Anyhow, good luck!

Your words and tone really suggest a man who is bravely going forward with strength and dignity.

So now we need those GAL things.

BTW I did a tandem jump for my 50th. When I heard how safe it was (my guy was a former Navy SEAL)

I was a tad disappointed too. Where is the risk??

but then he heard I was a bit of a daredevil so he asked if he could "make the jump a little more exciting" so of course i said YES...

we leaped out backwards and upside down...

complete chaos and fun and wind...and then POOFFFF!!

the chute opened and I felt a wonderful serenity. I want to get certified to jump on my own and at night.

Here near the coast of California, I saw farmland and cities and ocean and mountains...like I imagine we see when we are no longer bound by our bodies...I LOVED IT.

wonderful!