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#2238516 04/17/12 12:49 PM
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Hi all.

Like several other board members, I'm not exactly new here. I spent quite a bit of time on these boards several years back. That R didn't get saved but I learned a lot. Never enough, it seems.

In the midst of a new R, I didn't seem to need all those tools I'd learned about. By the time I did need them, they weren't so readily at hand.

I've spent some time kicking myself for being so stupid, for getting into this same old spot again. I realize that I need to do some deeper personal work to get to the bottom of what drives destructive R habits. When I'm paying attention, I do just fine, but when I get lazy, it all goes to he!!

So, P has moved out (and far away). She wants mental space, really. She says she can't figure out what she wants when someone else is around because she's always worrying about the other person and what they want. (So, a big chunk of this is about her and her own internal boundary issues. I can't fix that.)

I see that I had been taking out my irritations on her, being irritable and insufferable. Her other issues were about all my stuff (packrat), the inconsistency of my income, and my insufficient warmth toward her adult children. I started seriously addressing these issues last fall when she first indicated that she was dithering about the R. She said more than once that she was really impressed with the changes I had made.

Another issue is that she doesn't like the rural setting where we live (my house). I had first lived at her urban house, then she sold it and moved across the country to live with me. The plan was to fix up my house and sell it so we could build a new one on some land she bought. She's realized that she doesn't want to live in the country and she's rather fond of a little town three states away. Oy!

She tries to avoid conflict and feels like she doesn't have the right to ask someone else to change or compromise. So, she'll have the whole conversation in her head. "I want X and she won't like that, she's just different and that's okay, so I should just leave."

Some (brilliant) coaching from Jody has helped me with my clarity and focus. P has left, and she's very clear that she needs and wants some time for herself. My behavior in the few weeks between her deciding to go and actually leaving has made a big difference. I have been generally confident, focusing on my strengths, continuing to make changes, remaining kind and open, and being her friend.

She has continued to cuddle in bed. Her cats are staying with me until she gets settled. The day before she left, she was doing her rare flirtations (usually it makes her feel reassured to see my positive response). She said that it didn't feel like we were breaking up.

She has said many things that show her ambivalence. "Maybe I'm a fool. Maybe I'm making a huge mistake." I had said that I was just going to imagine that she's on a long silent retreat (really to minimize my hopes of hearing from her) and she said, "Maybe that's what I should have done instead."

Okay, this is getting toooo long. I'm back on the boards because I see there are still folks asking the tough questions and offering encouragement for the long haul.


Me - 54
P - 59
Together 5 yrs
She left 4/2012
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From what you've posted, I think I can see why she chose you...

Why did you choose her? What qualities about her did you like... that attracted you to her?

You mentioned you got "lazy"... what about "lazy" was serving you? Avoiding the R or her? Or were you wallowing in self pity, looking for her to come in and love you? Letting you know that you are important? Or was there other ways that you were meeting your needs by being lazy?

She left the cats with you? Then it certainly does not seem she is done with you. It's one thing to leave a couple old books or shoes or tools that are easily replaced... but leaving the cats? Living, breathing, animals...? I'm guessing of course, but it is possible she's either left a part of her to comfort you during her time away... or she has a reason to re-connect with you once she's "figured things out"...

Not sure, but it sounds like you are making a big deal that she now wants to move elsewhere... Could be wrong, but it seems you are attached to your place...

If that's the case, what makes you think that she would simply be willing to get rid of her place in town, move in with you, and be happy...? Aside from the words, I mean...

Did you really think she was a rural chick at heart?

She bought property that she thought the two of you might build on, once your place was fixed up and sold... sounds like she was nesting... a place to call "ours"... not "her place" and "my place"...

What makes you think she's ambivalent? Because of the words she used...?

Consider maybe she was testing your commitment to her. Maybe this and maybe that? Sure, we all are capable of being unsure... but if we really don't want someone else' opinion... those aren't generally thoughts we share...

Maybe... just maybe... all she wanted to hear from you was that you were still committed to her... and then you would step in and be there for her... like you said you would...

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I am sorry you are going through this.

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Well, there you go! Tough questions and some kind words. Thanks Kaffe.

I chose her because she's fun and funny, humble and kind, warm and welcoming, honest and honorable, stable and sane, and she had excellent references from a good friend of mine. All those things are true, but the stable and sane things look slightly different from the perspective of an R rather than a friendship.

In the long run, of course, being lazy doesn't serve me at all. In the short term, it comes out of lack of confidence and, I think, a subconscious testing - the desire for someone to love and accept me unconditionally. Not realistic or healthy, let alone effective, but there it is.

She was planning on taking the cats. Then an opportunity involving work and travel arose. She said, "See, if I didn't have encumbrances like cats or a significant other, then I could consider things like this." And I said I would take care of the cats. Depending on what pans out for her, they may be here for several months or she may be back for them in a few weeks. I'm glad they're at least here now. Yes, they are comforting and they are also the last tangible tie.

Yes, I'm attached to this area (not my house or the distance from town). At the least, I'd prefer it to be the home base for extended adventures. I'm willing to consider other scenarios, but I wouldn't take it lightly.

I didn't realize that P had never lived in a rural setting and she was genuinely excited about our plans.

I was particularly concerned about moving beyond my place and her place to 'our place'. I didn't expect her to be happy here in the long term. I think progress to the next step was too slow and discouragement is part of what she's feeling. She's now in the process of selling the land to interested neighbors.

Yes, it's mostly her words that betray ambivalence. Her actions aren't so fuzzy right now. Packing up all her stuff and selling the land are clear and definitive actions. That she remains open and present and warm (and wants to cuddle) may or may not be ambivalent, but it's confusing at least.

It's interesting that you suggest that she may have wanted reassurance of commitment from me. I don't think that's something she doubted. I think it's more that she needs to see my strengths (yes, so I can be there for her in the ways that she wants me to). I was playing to my weaknesses and I wasn't being someone she wanted to be with. She forgot what she liked about me. She forgot that she ever had liked anything. Now she at least remembers.


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Originally Posted By: StubbornDyke
Hi all.

Like several other board members, I'm not exactly new here. I spent quite a bit of time on these boards several years back. That R didn't get saved but I learned a lot. Never enough, it seems.

In the midst of a new R, I didn't seem to need all those tools I'd learned about. By the time I did need them, they weren't so readily at hand.

I've spent some time kicking myself for being so stupid, for getting into this same old spot again. I realize that I need to do some deeper personal work to get to the bottom of what drives destructive R habits. When I'm paying attention, I do just fine, but when I get lazy, it all goes to he!!



Ok so you have figured out that DB isn't just for R that are in trouble? I hope smile

Yes there are tools that you don't need when things are good, but there are tools that you can always keep with you...

That is a mistake that people tend to make when they enter a new R or even into piecing. Things are good, so we don't think we have to do work, don't have to pay attention...

Actually, I think the opposite is true. We have to do the work and pay attention so that we don't get to bad spots (or not really bad spots). Communication, affection, listening, love languages, validation, consideration, maintaining a sense of individuality, recognizing the others right to be their own person, low expectations...

I say low instead of no, because when we are in a committed loving relationship, we all have expectations. We just need to be aware that they aren't unreachable, they aren't over the top, and that we don't wear rose colored glasses where our partner is concerned.

I am sorry that you have found yourself back here, but as you know, it's a good place to find your footing again.



"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
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Google for "The Three Faces Of The Victim", Cyrena referred me to it, I thought it was good, maybe you will find it helpful too.

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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Accuracy, Thank you for the suggestion on "The Three Faces of the Victim."

I read about it and learned a great deal about myself. I play all three of the roles at different times but primarily the helpless victim in my sitch.

I was doing that yesterday as a matter of fact and this new awareness is helping me start today differently. The article told me to focus on self care, rather than looking outside for a saviour (and I had convinced myself that my lack of self care was selfless!) and to acknowledge my problem solving and leadership capacities.

Thank you.

Me (F): 51 W: 41
T: 10 yrs
M/DP: 7 years
ILYBINILWY: July 31, 2011
W: Moved out 10/11, again 12/11
W moved to another state: 4/12/12


Me(f): 51 W: 41
DP:8 M:3 T:10
"W not happy" 7/11
D final: 8/13
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Hiya, SD!

I still lurk here, even though I'm divorced now and totally over my ex. I do find it helps keep me focused in a good way when it comes to my dating relationships.

What stands out to me here, is that it doesn't sound like your partner tried to go to counseling with you to save the relationship? Yes, I know - typical WAS behavior. But really, wouldn't any of US, here, if we became unhappy in our relationship, try to fix it first by going to counseling? Do you think the women you pick somehow are flawed in that respect? Looking back, are there red flags that you ignored? (I am famous for blowing right past obvious red flags in my relationships - I still do it, but I am TRYING to learn to look for the signs - and to figure out what it says about ME, that I am attracted to the types of men I am).

Ellie

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Ellie!

Great to hear from you. I had heard through the grapevine that you were doing well.

Of course, in hindsight, there were red flags. She had a pretty good track record in the commitment department, but it had taken a lot out of her I guess. When I first suggested counseling, she recounted how unpleasant and fruitless it had been in her previous R.

Early on, I was convinced that she was fully R capable. Only later did I see that she had some baggage that might interfere. How is it that we try to pick someone who is the exact opposite of whatever nightmare we're trying to avoid and they keep ending up being the poster child?

I told my cousin, after spending a few hours with her husband, "OMG, you married your Dad!" She said, "I didn't see it. I don't know how I didn't see it..."


Me - 54
P - 59
Together 5 yrs
She left 4/2012
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,506
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Accuray, thanks for the tip. I'll check it out.

Needgrace, thanks for stopping by.


Me - 54
P - 59
Together 5 yrs
She left 4/2012
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