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A Message from Michele
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Re: The Intimate Man [Re: Concerned_Listener] #2224749
02/25/12 01:12 AM
02/25/12 01:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,778
Ohio
Concerned_Listener Offline OP
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Affirming our potential would be more important than condemning our brokenness. I'm trying to practice these words these days. I found them in a religious book I've been reading on contemporary Christianity. I've been going to church regularly this year, and find it helpful.

I continue to read The Passionate Marriage. His ideas resonate with me. He believes sex and intimacy are intertwined. Sexual problems are problems of intimacy. I've been blaming my W for years, instead of looking in the mirror. I might have had great sex if I married another woman, but I venture to guess I would have had problems with intimacy with any woman I married. Sex would have been bodily sex, versus emotionally intimate sex. The path towards intimacy will prepare me and us for sexual connection. I have faith.

My W complains and worries these days about dirty dishes in the sink, pet odors and hair, not enough money, her weight, and her sister's upcoming divorce. Her sister relies heavily on my W for support. My W gets news of her sister's divorce with the immediacy and frequency of cable news. She cooks breakfast for me when she's up. She has a terrible time getting consistent sleep. I found some workshops for those with sleep problems at our fitness and wellness center and gave them to her. I hope she goes.

CL


CL 53 W 54
M 20 yrs.
03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL
10-14' Piecing

"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."

----Tao Te Ching
Re: The Intimate Man [Re: Concerned_Listener] #2224770
02/25/12 02:34 AM
02/25/12 02:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Florida
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Starsky309 Offline
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Florida
CL,

The idea behind you reading Passionate Marriage was for it to inspire you to action. Instead, I'm just seeing more introspection.

Are any of his concepts helping you initiate sex, or get any closer to doing so?


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Re: The Intimate Man [Re: Starsky309] #2225157
02/26/12 08:01 PM
02/26/12 08:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,778
Ohio
Concerned_Listener Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
CL,

The idea behind you reading Passionate Marriage was for it to inspire you to action. Instead, I'm just seeing more introspection.

Are any of his concepts helping you initiate sex, or get any closer to doing so?


Starsky


The answer would be yes, that it's helping me get closer to doing so. In order for me to have sex, I must have sex on my terms. I've been trying to have sex on her terms and in her style. I've also been too focused on other-dependent intimacy (too performance focused, going to pieces when it doesn't go well, avoidant of conflict). I have to get better at holding onto myself during conflict, including sexual conflict. I don't feel like I'm avoiding or procrastinating, but have gone back to the drawing board in terms of how I view intimacy and sexual problems.

The author uses a term called self-validated intimacy. He views conflict as potential for intimacy. This is a time to share who you are and what's important to you. This is not a time to be dependent on approval or validation. If there's one thing we've learned in Piecing, it's that our partner will not always be there to validate or support us or the M. I've also learned that avoiding conflict, walking on eggshells, pacifying my W, or giving in doesn't work either.

I've been good at other-validated intimacy (listening, spending time together, compromise). I've been a turtle when it comes to conflict, thinking that conflict is a sign that's something is wrong with the R and me--that I've failed once again. This book is giving me a perspective to manage conflict in a different way (holding onto and revealing myself). This would be a 180 that needs to occur, or there won't be any sexual intimacy.

CL


CL 53 W 54
M 20 yrs.
03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL
10-14' Piecing

"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."

----Tao Te Ching
Re: The Intimate Man [Re: Concerned_Listener] #2226011
02/29/12 03:44 PM
02/29/12 03:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Florida
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Starsky309 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Concerned_Listener


I've been good at other-validated intimacy (listening, spending time together, compromise). I've been a turtle when it comes to conflict, thinking that conflict is a sign that's something is wrong with the R and me--that I've failed once again. This book is giving me a perspective to manage conflict in a different way (holding onto and revealing myself).


Careful . . . you'll go blind that way. wink laugh


Seriously, I'm glad to see that you're learning this:

Quote:
I've also learned that avoiding conflict, walking on eggshells, pacifying my W, or giving in doesn't work either.


More later,


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Re: The Intimate Man [Re: Starsky309] #2226146
02/29/12 09:01 PM
02/29/12 09:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,194
Australia/Pacific
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Walking Offline
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Quote:
Careful . . . you'll go blind that way.


You crack me up Starsky.

C_L you inspired me to re-read Passionate Marriage and I'm about half way through it now. I read it about 6 or 7 years ago when I was in my early 30s and re-reading it now is a completely different book. I realise now I just didn't even get it when I read it the first time. I had no frame of reference for much of the discussion.

It is actually a remarkable self-development book.

Have said that - have you discussed the book with your wife? It takes two to have a passionate marriage. smile


V

Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
Re: The Intimate Man [Re: Walking] #2226164
02/29/12 10:02 PM
02/29/12 10:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,778
Ohio
Concerned_Listener Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Walking


Have said that - have you discussed the book with your wife? It takes two to have a passionate marriage. smile


The author recommends not disclosing to one's partner that they're reading the book. I would agree. I don't think she would validate me for reading the book, since intimacy is such a charged topic. The skills are new for me, and it's probably best for me to practice on my own for now.

I too am inspired by this book. I feel like I'm on the right path.

CL


CL 53 W 54
M 20 yrs.
03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL
10-14' Piecing

"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."

----Tao Te Ching
Re: The Intimate Man [Re: Concerned_Listener] #2227137
03/03/12 05:43 PM
03/03/12 05:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,778
Ohio
Concerned_Listener Offline OP
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I'm practicing the concept of self-validated intimacy from the book, Passionate Marriage. The author advises the importance of self-soothing emotions, and not being infected by other's anxiety and negative stuff. I get too unbalanced by my W's tantrums, provocations, and irritability. The author also has broadened my perspective on intimacy. He views holding onto oneself and making oneself known, even if not validated as intimacy. My strategy has been to distance, wait, pacify, give-in. The author believes this apporoach hurts a R in the long-term.

I'm not perfect. I probably still do old habits most of the time, but I'm more aware of it, and pausing how to think and act differently. I probably am speaking up more often. I doubt if my W notices a difference yet. It's also hard to know when to speak up and when to ignore and let it pass.

She can be critical about my dancing. She doesn't empathize with the difficulty of learning new moves, or appreciating my learning style. She simply wants a quality of dance I can't always deliver. My tendency than is to be passive-aggressive and dance with apathy, until it's over and then be in a bad mood. Last night, I tried to hold onto myself and maintained a quality dance, and let her seek someone else out when that style of dance came on again (soothe my frustration, and not let her criticism affect my enjoyment).

CL


CL 53 W 54
M 20 yrs.
03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL
10-14' Piecing

"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."

----Tao Te Ching
Re: The Intimate Man [Re: Concerned_Listener] #2227269
03/04/12 03:20 AM
03/04/12 03:20 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,194
Australia/Pacific
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Walking Offline
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Quote:
Last night, I tried to hold onto myself and maintained a quality dance, and let her seek someone else out when that style of dance came on again (soothe my frustration, and not let her criticism affect my enjoyment).


That's a great place to start. wink


V

Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
Re: The Intimate Man [Re: Walking] #2227376
03/04/12 04:58 PM
03/04/12 04:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,778
Ohio
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Ohio
Originally Posted By: Walking
That's a great place to start. wink


Thanks. It's where I'm at. Until I can get better skilled at this consistently, I won't be able to move into the more charged area of sexual intimacy.

My W and I had a difficult lesson yesterday working on Samba Rolls, requiring a different set of skills than a slot or smooth dance. The plan was to split the lesson so that we could share the time for our own agendas. I ended up taking the whole time as I was struggling. My W today complained that I took the entire time, and that she couldn't understand why I wasn't getting it quicker. Here's another opportunity top practice self-validated intimacy (self-soothing of the frustration and doubt from the lesson and my W's lack of empathy, and to hold onto myself by continuing to review the lesson tapes, practicing on my own, and asking my W to practice at least weekly). The interesting thing is that even with her lack of validation, she still expects a level of skill and improvement from week to week. I'll let her decide what to do about rescheduling a future lesson. We have seven left with this studio.

I'm starting to get results from the author's concepts and perspective on self-validated intimacy. It breaks patterns of passive-aggressiveness, holding onto resentment, and judgment towards my W. This means we're breaking and reducing destructive patterns in the R.

CL


CL 53 W 54
M 20 yrs.
03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL
10-14' Piecing

"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."

----Tao Te Ching
Re: The Intimate Man [Re: Concerned_Listener] #2229305
03/10/12 12:56 AM
03/10/12 12:56 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,927
calif
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Dr LOve Offline
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calif
CL,

Still dancing? It's been a while
Doc


And if I claim to be a wise man, well
It surely means that I don't know
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