I doubt anyone remembers me. I haven't been on the boards for years, but I used to spend a lot of time here.
Guess I'm a newcomer, all over again
Not sure if I'll come back for more than a visit. I don't want to get into a pitty party, and I don't know if there's anything new I'm willing to try.
I've been on the roller coaster. Tried a lot of things; including 180, going grey (never went completely dark), but mostly just acting as-if.
Acting As-if has resulted in W acting as-if this is the way I want things to be. Don't know if she really believes it or not, but she seems to think that she got a life, and so should I.
In the past few years, our kids all moved out of the house. Except for our youngest who is handicapped, and will require supervision for the rest of his life. As soon as there was a free bedroom, W moved into it.
S4’s supervision falls upon me, so GAL is not an option for me. I make a good living for us, and between work and taking care of my autistic son, I don't have time or energy for myself.
About a year ago, I suffered an heart attack. I thought I glimpsed a glimmer of caring, but in retrospect, it was more likely concern over lost income.
Well... I know this sounds pretty negative. Any time I tried to change things, W told me she was “sick and tired of my negativity.” Sometimes, it just seems that no matter what you do, it gets twisted around.
But no matter what, I have to be true to myself in one respect. The bookstores are full of advice regarding putting yourself first. My W has accused me of succumbing to what “society” dictates. She has accused me of all sorts of chauvinism. But I firmly believe that regardless of the rampant divorce rate, and the “what’s in it for me” attitude towards marriage, it’s up to me to put whatever I can INTO my M. And that marriage is a life-long commitment. Even if it is one-sided.
The question is easy to answer. I want a life with my W. Not (as she once accused me of), exclusively, but we've been married for 28 years (plus 4 cohabitation).
I'm very lonely. I've devoted myself to my wife and family. I was hoping that at this point in my life, I would have a close relationship with my wife, and my adult children.
I have a good relationship with them, but naturally, my kids are concentrating on their own relationships.
I don't know if W wants the same thing as me, and just feels that she can't have it with me, or if she just wants to be free.
Our life hasn't been an easy one. Autism is very hard to live with, and my W has borne the brunt of the difficulties. Maybe she just thinks it's my turn now. I'm sure she doesn't see how hard things are for me. Society kinda assumes that women (my W was a stay-at-home mom) are the nurturers, and the dads are kinda peripheral. She has no idea how hard it was for me when I had to work out of town, being away from my family whilst she was working so hard to get help for our autistic son. Everyone acknowledges how hard it was for her. Everyone thinks that I was just a bystander. Easy! Go to work, and don't have to care.
But I digress.
I don't know if coming back to the boards is a meaningful step, or just feeling a need to vent, or have some sort of human contact.
While there is no autism or other intellectual labels within my family, I am closely associated with that community and understand how difficult it can be on individuals and families. I just want to offer that you seek out any further supportive organizations and people, even if you have some. I've met some really great people in that community and know that when someone needs respite, it can be a god send. The challenge it can be on a marriage is tremendous. Having the opportunity to have "couple time" could be very helpful for you and your W.
Anyhow, just a thought.
I've been watching some videos on that popular video web site done by a certain, well known personal growth speaker specifically about relationships. I'd certainly recommend that you seek out the videos or DVDs as I found a HUGE amount of value in how people relate to each other and how those relationships can be transformed in massive ways. They might be helpful for you.
I get from your words your resentment of feeling you didn't contribute to your family. And I'd put bets that's shown up in how you've engaged your W and your life. As that public speaker I mentioned would say, a man might have a tendency to withdraw under the apparent attacks.
In the DB words, it might be a good time for a 180 in which, rather than withdrawing, you step towards your W and your involvement. Your W might be feeling you don't love her because you're withdrawing. Maybe she's chasing you to get your attention and love. I get that. I am sure that's a big contributor in my own sitch.
It appears to me that you are in a decent position where you can really work DB and become that fantastic husband that you really want to be.
So maybe some of that was off the mark, only you know. Just my thoughts. I do wish you well.
I'm not sure resentment is the right word, but I certainly feel unappreciated, and you're probably correct that it shows through. My W always felt unappreciated too, though I always tried to show my appreciation. Until, one day she asked me to stop. She no longer wanted either appreciation or affection from me.
As to withdrawal, you're probably right about that too. But, to be honest, the withdrawal was a 180 for me. I was one of those people who pushed when she pulled away.
And MAN! did she pull away!
I'd love to do another 180, but frankly, it hurts too much. Any attempt by me to bring us closer met with the typical pullback by her, and I just can't take the rejection anymore.
So, for the forseeable future, the only thing I can think of is to support her the best I can without any reciprocity.
One thing I've learned is that it's no use to give someone what YOU want. I try to give her what SHE wants.
And as callous as it sounds, the only thing she seems to want is my income, and for me to take responsibility for our son so she has the freedom to so her thing.
I honestly think she thinks I'm fine with that. Otherwise, I'd push back.
I tried pushing back, but whether it was poorly executed on my part (very likely) or badly received on her part (just as likely), she saw it as "being negative."
That's the "rock and an hard place" I refer to in the subject of this thread.
If it were possible to view my old threads (they're years old now), you'd probably see a common theme. I just try to be the best Andy I can be. I do that for W, and I also do it for me.
No matter how rejected I feel, I can look myself in the mirror and say I've done my best, continue to do my best, and will always do my best.
There's a whole bunch of stuff that you've written that really is great stuff to reflect on.
While you felt you were showing appreciation, she asked you to stop.
Would that be because she doesn't want appreciation, or is it because she doesn't want it from you, or is it because it is not how she feels appreciated?
Generally, people don't ask us to do something for them, if they like how it feels...
Also, the bit about giving without receiving. So important, yet difficult, to give unconditionally.
Eventually, we need our needs met.
But it's not about keeping score, nor is it about giving conditionally. But it is important to know that a WAS generally leaves because their needs aren't being met. WAS is just a label and like MLC, it can be viewed negatively. Yet we would probably encourage anyone to quit their job if they weren't being paid. So if we were the ones who, over an extended period of time were not getting our needs met... well... we'd become the WAS...
What are your needs? Does your W know what they are? Have you asked (in a positive way) for them to be met? You don't have to tell your W to meet them. And you shouldn't expect your W to meet them.
Your W may think you should just KNOW what her needs are. Or maybe she THINKS she told you what her true needs are, but didn't take the time to ensure you understood.
I met my W's needs in many ways, more so and especially at the beginning of my M. Yet... over time I withdrew and I found my needs being met less and less. It's interesting to see how that happens.
I too focused a lot on the money, because my W seemed so focused on it. Yes... she was... yet while I took my role as stay at home parent very seriously... I also really enjoyed it and in the end, I chose that over getting a real job and financially supporting the family (or financially supporting the family in a stronger way; as I did bring in money to the family).
So again, is it about the money? Or has that simply become the token elephant in the room which draws focus on the many things that both of you can provide to each other and remain connected or regain your connection?
I do feel you have a good perspective of being the best you and keep moving forward and growing as you can.
To answer your question, I would say that W wanted me to stop showing my appreciation because she didn’t believe I was sincere. Also, I expressed my appreciation for little things. Things that were important to me, but seemed trivial to her. I think it kinda made her feel inadequate. And I think the biggest reason she wanted me to stop was that she was looking for a way out of her commitment to me, so she was not in a mind to hear anything positive.
There’s something that I learned (I mentioned it in a previous post). The Golden Rule is missing something. To give unto others as you would have them give unto you assumes that s/he wants the same thing(s) as you. The real act of giving is to give the other person what s/he would have you give them.
However, I think that the unfortunate side effect of this can be that the other person can assume that you aren’t sacrificing anything. My W wants “space.” I give her space. My W wants freedom. I take responsibility for our son, and am the major income earner in our family. I think she may think that I want space, and I want to spend more time with S18, and maybe even that I’m a workaholic.
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
What are your needs? Does your W know what they are? Have you asked (in a positive way) for them to be met?
It’s easy for W to misinterpret my desires because her misinterpretations fit my behavior, and justifies her behavior. I can’t tell her otherwise because if I do, she takes it as negativity on my part. I may not have expressed my feelings very well in the past, and these perceptions are now cast in stone.
I know this flies in the face of the GAL philosophy, but my biggest need is the companionship of my W. She is not of a mind to provide that need. Our communications has utterly broken down, and she blames me. It’s the classical “Why should I meet your needs, when you never cared about mine.”
The only time we discussed MC was when she suggested it so we could tell our kids that we tried and failed. Then we could use the councilor to help us ease the effects of our breakup on our kids.
I don’t have the free time or the energy to GAL. Sounds like a cop out, and I suppose it’s always possible to do things for me. But in so doing, I’d have to give something up that I am not willing to give up.
It’s hard to explain, but basically, W is not entirely wrong. I don’t need space, but I do need to be the best father that my son could possibly have. It’s a sacrifice, but it’s also what I need to do for my own self esteem.
Maybe a little background on me can explain it.
My older brother was schizophrenic. My parents divorced when I was about 8 years old. My mother passed away when I was 15. All of this plunged me into a situation where I felt like I had to take care of my other brother and sister. I always felt that my mom passed away from the shear stress of having to raise a family by herself under these circumstances.
I know what it feels to be abandoned by my brother (when he lost contact with reality), my father (who messed up his marriage to the point where he was no longer part of his own family), and my mother (not her fault, but she was gone none the less).
I will not allow that to happen to my family.
I’m not saying that I’m perfect, but I can say in all honesty that I try to be.
I may be a bit scarce for a while as I sort some of my stuff out. I'm sure others will be along to help support you.
I did want to leave you with a couple thoughts:
+ I think the "Do unto others" is more about "SHOWING borders, as well as leading by example"
+ I agree that we should not give conditionally (I'll scratch your back IF you scratch mine) and that giving is NOT about getting back BECAUSE one gives. Rather, giving unconditionally with no expectations of return, in ANY way, shape, form, or vector.
+ In the end, I do believe that "lesser of the evils" is how to approach choosing actions. IOW, your indication that you sacrificed does not have to make you a martyr. Unless you set your sacrifice on a pedestal for all to see. I didn't necessarily see my actions of being highly focused as the stay at home parent as sacrifice, although I DID understand that by doing that and not getting a real job to financially provide for my family was a major issue for my W. For me, I was damned either way. So I chose what I felt was best for the kids and best for me... In some ways... I sacrificed my W and my M...
I do think you have your head on straight, Andy... It is written here often that no matter how we grow through this experience, we don't change our core values and we don't have to do things that have no value to us and don't have any value for our kids or spouses...
We don't have to change WHO we are... just little, consistent efforts that exchange what may be negative behaviours for positive behaviours which still honour our core values and end goals...
Hi Andy. I finally found your thread. I wanted to stop and say thanks for the input on my new thread that I put on Newcomers a couple weeks ago. Your kindness and input about the sitch with my exBF was much appreciated. I needed a guy's point of view.
I decided that I really belong under Surviving, where I used to be, so I've started a new thread over there.
I need to read up on your sitch. Happy to help, listen, or just be a friend.
Me 47 Ex H 46 Bomb 9/02 D final 3/04 Ex H now married to OW
------------ This is surviving. There is no such thing as a normal life, there's just life. So get on with it and enjoy it!
