Brand New here, my story, my ?'s

[Ichrus]

First post…Like many, I never thought I would find myself needing this kind of help and advice, but reading the stories on the boards have helped to give me ideas on how to move forward, perspective, some peace of mind and hope for the future. Sorry for the long post, I suppose this is also me having some therapy to get everything out there. I also just started the DB book, so sorry if I ask things that I will discover on my own soon, I just wanted to move forward.

Our history: Me 34, Wife: 33, married 11 years, known each other about 18 years, three daughters age 6, 4 and 4. High school sweethearts, I was her first “real” boyfriend, broke up when I went to College because I wanted to experience everything I could, she didn’t take it well and did not really use the time to meet new people herself. We stayed in touch as friends then more, reconnected and dated again as I neared the end of College (and I became her first “lover”, but she was not my first) and I realized that she was everything I could want in a women. Married at 22/23, had some trouble having kids and went through various treatments before we were in the adoption process and it just happened on its own (our little Christmas miracle when we were surprised around this time of year 7 years ago). I found out I had cancer right before our first was born, and started chemo the week after our daughter arrived (so super stressful and trying time for my wife, and she did have some postpartum diagnosed). Cancer treated successfully and we did invetro to have more kids (which is how we ended up with twin girls this time). Certainly more postpartum and stress with 2 new babies and a 2 year old in the house, especially when I had to go back to work. I have always been, or seen myself as the “rock” or stabilizing force in our M. I was outgoing, fun and laid back in High School and College, but certainly introverted with my emotions and many thoughts. My wife was always the more outwardly emotional one.

Wife says issues in our marriage go back to before our first was born, and that her getting pregnant actually saved our marriage at that time as she was considering leaving (I know from this site and other resources not to believe 100% of what is said and 50% of what I see, but it still hurts). Looking back now, I see the signs and clues she was dropping about the “health” of our marriage that I missed or did not realize were as important as they are. I made LOTS of mistakes, I realize that and have owned up to them (and know I am and will be paying for them). I somewhat regretted that she did not have as much of an experience dating and meeting other guys (because I had lots of fun “experiences” in college myself), and that, along with my more outgoing or adventuress ideas on building our SL together, had me actually encourage her to flirt and text with other men (WOW, what a mistake I now realize that to be!!!). I always approached it from a place of our relationship being strong and forever, and this was something to give her experiences she missed and maybe spice things up between us too…I see, and learned from her, that she took it as me pushing her away or not being willing to provide the attention and emotional support she needed/wanted…I also now realize from my male perspective it was more the physical experiences I wanted her to have, but women connect much more emotionally.

Everything came to head in early Oct this year. I noticed a text come though on her phone as I walked by from a guy’s name I did not recognize, I asked her about it and she was very secretive, somewhat angry and dismissive of it. This of course set off my alarm bells and got me to snooping more (something I have done in the past, that has made her mad and that I now realize is part of a “controlling” aspect of my personality that I need to change and work on…plus as many have said, I realize it doesn’t really help anything and makes me feel much worse). I read the texts and see there are lots of them and stuff like “I love you too, can’t wait to see you again, your kisses are so soft”. So certainly EA going on, somewhat PA but I truly believe not a full on sexual PA yet. I confront her, we fight, she says things have been bad for years, she doesn’t know if she can take it anymore, she drops ILYBIANILWY, the only reason she has struck around this long is for the kids, etc. This guy is a 28 YO single PE teacher at the school she works at that she has known, but just recently became more involved with (as far as I can tell). This all hits me like a Mack truck…I realized things were not great, but never though they were so bad that she would actually consider leaving. So I have all these crazy emotions and feel the “rock” I have built around myself is destroyed and I am rocked to my core (which I now realize is not a bad thing, and I am going to grow and become better because of this regardless of how it all turns out).

She went to a few different events with him, some with my knowledge (but not approval) some sneaking around. Drove me crazy, we fought, we "communicated" she would say she knows she needs to stay to work on our marriage for the kids and she was done with this guy, but would still text and talk and meet up with him again. This goes on for a few weeks.
He calls one night saying he spoke with his parents and they don’t approve of the whole situation (they are both catholic and have strong connections to their families) and they need to step back from each other. That lasts three days till they see each other at work again and I am told “we tried, it was just too hard and weird not seeing or talking to each other”. Last fight was on 12-3 when I saw/found out their “I am done with this, really” only lasted 3 days. Fought, said some things I should not have but stayed calm and made sure she knew I was not leaving because of this just yet (but did not know/think we could keep going on like this) was fighting for us and wanted to make us better. She blames me for “making her act this way” from the way I treated her in the past and how I pushed her toward other guys. I calmly accept the blame from the standpoint that I made many mistakes in the past, but her actions now are her own, just as mine are my own, and there are costs to all of us depending on what we choose to do. The “fight” actually did not end as badly as I thought it could…she shared that her biggest fear in staying is that my changes (which she has seen some and appreciates, but doubts) will be short lived and she will be right back in the same unhappy/lonely spot again and will have lost this chance with a guy she “really likes and has so much connection to”. She says she knows she has to stay and try “for the kids”, and I think because all the families want her to, but I feel she doesn’t have really any of that emotional desire to try (I know from the boards and books she doesn’t need that to start, I start the process by working on me, but it is hard).

Things have been somewhat better this week. I am trying to focus on the changes in myself that she has made clear were priorities for her and hurt our relationship in the past (paying more attention to her and being interested and connected, and not getting as frustrated or angry at the children and doing more positive things with them). Have not done too much for GAL changes (although I do enjoy the better relationship I am building with the kids), but will start working out again soon and looking at some other ideas. We still sleep in the same bed and even cuddle and help take care of each other SL wise (not the full deed, but mutual aid and encouragement for now). I give her quick kisses on the cheek hello and goodbye and she seems mostly receptive, I cuddle up to her on the couch after the kids are in bed and just enjoy the closeness (I let her know I really enjoy it and it gives me comfort and connection to her, but I don’t want her to feel weird or forced, so let me know if she does not want it…and she says it is “ok” or “fine” and seems to enjoy it and even lean into it). We have met a few times over the past week or two for lunch while she is running around town. She has said she feels weird or odd with me in public or in some different situations, and that sometimes I am a bit over the top on the attention/physical contact with her...I am certainly going to try to moderate that...but see question below.

We did go to a traditional M counselor and it basically sucked, just rehashing the painful history and the mistakes I made, the feelings and emotions and communication involved and just hinting at the things we could “do” moving forward. My W hated the 2-3 sessions we went to and asked straight up “What can I do to work on things or start feeling more connected to him again” and the C just danced around “try things together that you used to like, or that you enjoy doing with friends”. I think W would be open to trying another C, and I would certainly look for someone more SBT focused or maybe the phone sessions. I am all about acknowledging my mistakes from the past, but more focused on what we need to do in the here and now, and the future, to work toward a solution…I know my W is not there yet and is still very fixated on what I did wrong and how we got here.

So, on to a few of my initial questions for the wisdom you all have:

have read that a part of DB’ing is pulling away and GAL so that I become better and more interesting and my W becomes more interested and “leans” back into the relationship…but given our situation, and how one of the issues was my in-attention and dis-connection to her…and she seems receptive and even encouraging of many of my efforts to be closer to her physically and intellectually…I worry that it would not be a good idea to “pull away” from her right now. She has not actively asked for the contact, but has said “she likes having a warm body in bed with her” and the other night when she was heading out, I DB’ed a little and simply said goodbye, she playfully asked if that was it, I asked what she wanted, she asked what I wanted to do…so I came to her and gave a better hug, neck nuzzle and small kiss with my goodbye that she leaned into and seemed to enjoy. So I am not quite sure how to proceed. Any thoughts on if I should keep trying to build the closeness (especially since she seems to appreciate and even enjoy it) while maybe also doing touches of GAL and pulling back to see how she responds? Or anything else?

The OM – This is the really hard one for me. I realize I need to stay far away from my instincts and thoughts about him and what she needs to do about him…but I also feel like in many ways our R will not have much of a chance to get better while she has “plan B” waiting in the wings (and there was a text in the recent past along the lines of “I hope I am worth the wait”…again, I know I need to try to not read into this stuff so much, but man does that stuff cut me down). It feels like I would be set up for failure so she could say “we tried, it didn’t work, so I am moving on” and that she would be almost setting up a self-fulfilling prophecy for us, trying and having it not work because she knows this guys is waiting for her. It is a boundary for me that I want this guy out of her life…but how far I am willing to push the issue and how much I can, or am willing, to take of her staying in touch with this guy is hard to determine (and I don’t want to set an ultimatum on it just yet). I believe they are talking less, texting less and not really seeing each other outside of work (where they only see each other 1 day a week)…unless they have gotten really much more sneaky in their communication (and because I am working on my control issues and not snooping anymore, I don’t know the truth like I used to). So what to do? Do I just keeping plugging away at working on me/us, keep it light and positive at home and ignore the issue as much as I can. I mean she knows how I feel, she says she knows they really need to step away from each other so we can look at our M…but her actions keep her going back to this guy. Is there any other way I could or should re-emphasize that her relationship with him is an issue with me and I believe a block to our forward progress?

Another of Wife's biggest fears/issues that she told me again last night is she is just so tired of not "feeling" anything toward me. Even when I am close to her, she says she allows it but does not really "feel" that connection. She thinks it is because she has shut down and not felt anything for so long (which I agree with and said it will certainly take time for us to work on this and work toward our "new" marriage). She says she is willing to try other counseling or programs and wants me to deal with finding them and setting it up. I am thinking a DB telephone session might be a good idea. Is that something I should just set up and we jump into...is there any prep work we should do before?

Thank you in advance for any thoughts, stories or advice. As I said, these boards have given me a lot of good ideas and some peace of mind when I desperately needed it. I also feel a bit badly about this, but it has made me feel much better about my M and where we are now in seeing how much more some of you have had to go through and some of the successes you have had.

[Ichrus]

Good, looks like my first post worked

[brenalim]

First off - you can't blame yourself for your W indiscretions. The encouraging stuff with flirting and texting is strange, but at the end of the day, she made those choices alone.

Secondly - counselors are important if you want to save the marriage. If you didn't like the first one, go to a different one. If you don't like them either, find a new one. Don't stop trying to find the right one.

Onto your DB Qs... I don't know much about the GAL in your situation... maybe try GAL with activities that she'd enjoy too. Get a bbsitter, take a salsa class. Whatever.

The OM - if you're NOT okay with her having an affair, I'd say push for NC. If she's serious about saving the marriage, she can't have a backup. They work together, right? Are you going to ask her to quit her job? If not. Ask for NC and transparency. If she must have contact with him for work purposes, have her share them with you so you know its over. phone too! She needs to be transparent with that too. If she's going out with friends, you need to know where and who with and how to reach her. It's inconvenient, but that is what happens when you break trust.

Phone therapy - no prep work needed. Make the call and set up the appointment.

Marriage is a PARTNERSHIP. I know you've both made mistakes but there is still hope if you BOTH are willing to put in the hard work to put the pieces back together.

[FA]

Hey Ichrus...

Here's some things to know....

1. You, yourself, cannot prevent her from seeing, talking, texting, etc from the the OM. It'll happen whether or not you would like to think it has slowed down or texting less....

2. If YOU start getting sneaky about any of this, it'll eat you alive! Trust me! You'll either get caught in a sneaky tactic or you will not like the outcome of what you find and if it is the end of their "thing", you may ruin the positive outcome that you really want.

3. The whole GAL thing...it works a few different ways. It takes the focus off of her and HOPEFULLY puts it on you...meaning, something you do will trigger a spark in her...but ultimately it should make you feel better about yourself.

4. Kids are everything...I have 2. They can sense a lot of things. The most important thing you can do for yours is to focus on them, their well-being, and be glad that they are healthy.

5. Last, vent here when you need to. A lot of veterens check up on the boards and we have been there and done that....as much as you or anyone else don't want to admit, one of us here has done whatever you are about to do. Ask us what our outcome was, ask us what worked and what didn't....

Good luck, Man...it is a real rough road you are about to travel.

[Ichrus]

Guess I am journaling a bit...

A night or two ago on the advice of an old friend who is also a pastor who is my sounding board/vent partner, I gently told my wife that I was sorry for my role in the past in getting us to this point and that I was asking for her forgiveness as we look to work on our marriage. It was a calm, rational conversation, she seemed to think about it a bit and said she might be able to forgive, but it would not change the things that have happened or make her forget. I validated and told her I understood that, but that I thought it would be important for her, me and us to both look at forgiveness as move forward. I guess my hope is that this will plant the seed of thought in her mind to consider how she is so focused on the pain of the past that she might have trouble looking at the present and the future of what we might have together...maybe a backslide, I am not sure...but it was an ok, and short conversation.

She is open to trying more counseling programs, I am considering the Mort Feltel cd's and call in program, the DB telephone sessions and seeing a new local counselor who lists SBT as one of their specialties. I know I just need to be careful and not overload her, or us, with trying to do too much too soon just because I want to do anything and everything to learn and work on our M. I think she might be more receptive to SBT style because she wants to know what she "can do..." to work on things and feel again, and it certainly makes a bigger impact to have other "professionals" help give her advice (even if I have my own ideas of things we can try to do to work on it).

She went out Christmas shopping last night after kids went to bed. I still have the worry that she is sneaking off to meet OM, but part of my 180 and GAL I suppose is not getting all in her business about where she is going or what she is doing. I did call to find out if she was going to eat out on her own or maybe bring something home, and she said she would bring dinner home for the both of us...and she was kind enough to text me and let me know where she was, what she was picking up, that she would be home soon...after she got home her phone was chiming from someone texting her, I bit my tongue and did not ask anything and tried not to react at all, and she on her own let me know it was one of her female co-workers and filled me in on the conversation as it went on. We talked about some of the things she is dealing with at work and looking at her schedule for next year, and some of her fears (she is a teacher)...so overall it felt like a good night where my fears were unfounded and we have some good connecting.

I guess my real trial and test will come again tonight and tomorrow. Wed is the day she works while OM also works at her school...so they will certainly see each other around campus. I think/Know DB style would be for me to not even mention, hint or acknowledge my uneasiness about OM and tomorrow...my instinct and feeling is that sometime soon (maybe not tonight though) I need to mention that I have noticed, and appreciate that it seems like she has stepped back from her connection with OM, and that I really value she is taking working on our M a priority (while maybe hinting that having OM in her life is a boundary to me, and I believe it undermines us really trying...which she has also acknowledged before). I guess I really want to ask her where things stand, if she is really moving away from OM and if we are really working on US without distractions...but I think I also know this is the wrong discussion to have, as much as I "want" to know the score.

So talk me down guys and girls, or let me know if there are more subtle or effective ways to focus on the positives of us working on our M together outside of distractions (like OM)

[Ichrus]

Had a hard time with the time delay, but R is getting really tough and hard again and I need a place to vent and people who can offer advice and support.

Still riding the roller coaster, but feel I am into a deep tunnel underground right now. Against the good advice here and DB'ing, I did bring up the OM right around Christmas and how it hurt knowing she was continuing to build a relationship with him, and how I felt it undermines any work she says she wants to do in working on our relationship (I still have a very hard time thinking she will take down any part of her wall or even consider positive/loving feelings toward me again while she has this fairy tale "happiness" connected and waiting in the wings). She said again she knows it is wrong and they need to end it, spoke to him on the phone about it...that lasted about 7 days this time before she "just had" to communicate with him again. I truly understand and know the advice offered above and elsewhere on these boards to be true, I can't talk sense into her about this and it will have to be something she comes to on her own (or perhaps with some 3rd neutral party advice...see below).

Says she wants to work on us and give it an honest effort (though I internally debate how "honest" it is on her side) and we are doing some program stuff and looking into a new MC and maybe IC to try.

Positive things: We are still in the same house, same bed, basically friendly and helpful to each other, kids are unaware (we think for the most part), sometimes intimate (but she doesn't want full SI), and little things give me hope like her buying me some new t-shirts when she was out, or saying some of the things she hears and reads in the program makes sense and she wants to learn more.

Negative things: She still deflects basically everything and this is almost all my fault (and of course she wasn't looking for this relationship with OM, it just happened), we are trying the program where we are supposed to temporarily "send our issues" away and just focus on building a positive relationship environment, but she is critical of it, rolls her eyes a lot and says she likes the idea that this can help her with her next relationship. I have been much better about not snooping, but failed majorly yesterday in that area...read her texts to OM and saw all this stuff about "I really see myself with you in the future, I can't wait till we can really be together, I love you so much, miss you so much, I love that you call them "our girls" (referring to my children), I think about our wedding and having your baby..." I lost it! was literally seeing red and in a rage like I have never felt (I think in many ways because it seems like this guy thinks he can just take my place and my wife seems to want that). I was ready to call or find OM and fortunately my wife was not home when I got home so I had time to cool off a bit and not completely blow it by kicking her out of the house or leaving myself. She knew something was wrong, and that I likely "did" something, but we have not talked about anything yet.

Well pastor friend helped me cool down more, and again helped make it clear that the snooping is just killing me and not helping anything (super hard for me because I like to gather info and know as many pieces as I can in making choices, but I have deleted the way I was doing it, so easy temptation is gone). I just continue to be furious and struggle with the idea of this OM hanging around and building a stronger relationship with my wife while she says she is working on us. I know I can't make her stop, I can only do things myself. DB'ing by pulling away and going dim just seems sooo risky to me right now given that our main problem is our connection and I fear me going cold will just drive her toward what she thinks is her perfect "happiness". But I also feel like she might not really see and feel the costs and consequences of her actions unless I up the ante somehow.

Right now my strength and patience is my three little girls. I can't mess up this chance with my W to fix things, no matter how hard and hopeless it sometimes seems, because I KNOW our separation would devastate my daughters and it will have major negative impacts on many aspects of their lives now and in the future. My W says she knows this too, but again deflects and says when she is happy (with OM in her fairytale), she things a lot of other things in her life will be better too and that will help the kids, and she had one of her friends tell her about her own parents bad marriage and how she wished her parents would have separated (great, thanks "friend"). She is a smart women, and I want to encourage her to research the effect of divorce on young kids to really get a better sense of what she is working toward...but I don't know if that would help or hurt anything.

I did covertly call a co-worker and friend of hers today who she mentioned she confided some of our problems with to ask for her help on the down low. This is an older, married woman who my wife respects and that she attends church with. I did not go into details, but basically asked is friend could try to step in and listen to my wife and offer council and advice as she felt comfortable (and she is a woman I know believes in marriage and really trying to work through problems). I also asked her not to mention my calling her so as to better present a neutral, 3rd party point of view...a point of view that I think, and hope will be along the lines of "you really need to step back from OM and work on your marriage first". Told her I don't expect her to fix our problems and I have made plenty of mistakes, but I hope a different view and angle and maybe "better" influence might plant a seed or trigger something. I may not know if it does anything, but I feel I need to do anything and everything I can for me and my kids to work through this.

So any advice or thoughts of my sitch are greatly appreciated. I need to struggle thru the rest of today Wed 1/18 knowing from my last snoop that she was hoping to see OM after work today. I need to be cool tonight and not get into it with her, but I also need to figure out my next steps...I am willing to take a lot of the pain and anguish of this situation for awhile to shelter my kids, but I just don't know how long it can go on...I guess I really need to find a way to detach and GAL while trying to work on positive aspects of our R and not being too "cold" toward her. I also hope if I can drag this out over enough time, the "magic" of OM will fade and reality might set in a bit more.

Thank you in advance for any help

[~ kd ~]

^

[BeingMe]

So sorry you're going through this.

I used to snoop on my H's emails and read a lot of what you are reading now. I actually said to my H, "how can you think that you can just waltz into someone else's place, expecting the kids will just love you, because their mom does. You will be the reason their dad is gone. They'll end up hating you." This was a long time ago, and he never did leave, but we have other issues now, 7 years down the line. I wish now, that I had left then. But, I was also trying to make it work for the kids sake. My pastor told me not to do it for the children, but for myself. Anyway, for whatever reason you try and make it work, do so until you have tried everything (and you seem to be doing the best you can).

Take care.

[~ kd ~]

Hi Ichrus, I wanted to touch on some things in your first post:

+ regarding the OM, some things mentioned above, another thing that is important to consider, is do not get into a competition with him for your W's attention.

What you are looking for is to become the best man you can be, which starts with looking inside yourself and considering some of the complaints that your W has about you. You'll need to filter the valid from the... not so valid... in the end, make changes in you that will help you become a better man. The more you can contribute to the world, the more attractive you will be to anyone. And that may also mean you become more attractive to your W.

+ while 180s can be very effective in regard to changing negative aspects of ourselves to positive ones, unfortunately becoming more attentive and affectionate to our spouses at this time is generally not a 180 that we use at this point.

Much of the "problem" can be that your W has changed her emotional attachment FROM you to someone else. By attempting to chase that, it ends up pursuing and can push your W further away. It can be more effective to continue to detach, GAL, and do 180s which may eventually create curiosity of you in your W, which may have her begin to slow down and look back at you and she may begin to pursue you...

+ you mention your W indicated lack of passion. This can be one of those tell tale signs that suggest a WAS has more emotional interest in someone else and not that there is a void of passion.

Most people recognize the difference between love and lust and explain lust as more of an initial, chemically induced attraction to someone. And people may explain this as passion or lack there of (ie. the "lust" for you has disappeared in your W).

This passion can be cultivated in a M, but it is not necessarily something that is persistent and ever present in an M. At this time, passion is probably not something to worry about at this time.

~~~~~~~~

You may have mentioned some things in your later posts which I will look at and others may further chime in with their own thoughts on your sitch.

In the mean time if you haven't thought of this stuff:

+ what are some things that you would like to change in yourself, that you feel are negative traits that you would like to get rid of?

+ what are some things about yourself that you would like to make better about yourself?

+ what are some GAL activities that you might get involved in, to help in your detachment and also to help you grow as an individual?

+ what are some of your W's complaints about you, that you could consider doing 180s on, because you agree they are things that you would like to change?

[Ichrus]

Updating and journaling a bit.

I have not received many views or posts on my own sitch, but have truly valued and appreciated the community, reading others stories, struggles and the advice posted here. So I figured I would try to be more active and involved.

I have gotten much better at being detached, working on myself and realizing W will make her own choices and do what she feels she needs/wants to do. I certainly still have bad days, but they don't seem as extreme as before and I am finding more peace in myself and what may happen in the future. My GAL's include being a more patient/active/involved and fun father for my 3 girls, reaching out and spending more time with my parents and siblings, working out more (training for 10k Pendelton mud run in June) and exploring religion and spirituality in myself that has not been there before (These events have really opened my heart to believing that we sometimes need something more and bigger than ourselves and this world to reach out and connect with).

W's plan as of now is to stay together in the same house till about Aug or Sept 2012. She is a part time teacher now but will be full time come Sept. She also wants to have our separation begin over the summer so our kids have time to adjust and maybe we have more time to be around to help that process. She is convinced of her plan (for now)and from time to time makes it a point to tell me how she feels trapped at home, how she sees no hope for us, she just wants to be happy...I have gotten much better at listening, affirming and generally just letting this stuff roll of my back. I guess I am at least glad we are together in the same house and same bed and know that time is my ally in my efforts, and anything can happen over time.

Interesting development with OM, over Superbowl weekend apparently his family was giving him the business for continuing a relationship with a married women...so he spoke to my W a few days later and said that he could not continue talking with her now, and she needed to work on herself and figure out what she needs in life. W told me about these developments, and I listening but did not say too much back to her about it. I take this all with a grain of salt because I have heard this song before and they got "back together" after 3-6 days on previous "we are done" moments. I also know this really has no effect on what should be my efforts of improving myself and continuing to grow...I think the only twinge of emotion I get from this is that if there is to be any chance for us to work on our M, he would have to be out of the picture, so if this sticks and she has time to get though the grieving process, who knows. I also see the other side of the coin in that this might convince her she needs to get S or D sooner so she can pursue what she sees as her future happiness with this guy...But again, it is not my worry and I just need to do my thing and not worry about OM or their relationship.

I had one IC session (another this Friday), was ok but C brought up the point (which I have thought about as well) that my W might really need the shock of reality and living on her own and dealing with kids and money on her own to better appreciate what we had. It bothers me to think about that, but I sort of agree and think it might get to that point. W has her first IC counseling session tonight with someone referred to her by a friend. I called the office to ask if C was pro marriage and staff said yes, but nothing else I can or should do about it.

I have a feeling it is going to be a rough night tonight for a few reasons. Due to it being first IC session for W, I can see her having just enough time to bring up all her problems and reasons why she is done with M and it is all my fault (so she might come home all worked up about talking about everything wrong about me, our M and her life), today is also the day she normally would see OM at work (he might not be there today, reminding her of that loss, and if he is, it could be awkward and uncomfortable), she has a busy day at work, and with rain in the forecast as a teacher she will have kids all day with no break and she did not sleep well last night due to everything. My plan is to play it by ear when she gets home, try to get out of the house to go workout and give her space and just try to keep it low key and quiet tonight.

Little possible positive signs I have seen:
I was more involved with playing with baby nephew (W's brothers son) recently and also shared about holding and playing with 4 week old son of a good friend of mine I recently visited. After I told my wife about cute baby, she looked at me strangely and said she was so confused about how I was acting, that in the past I was so against babies and having more and now I am all loving to them (and having twins with a 2yo in the house made for a challenging few years and I was certainly anti-more kids for awhile).
She also was upset the other night and again said how I confuse her because I was acting upbeat and "normal" with her after she has recently made it so clear she is unhappy, feels trapped (cause she can't afford to move out now) and plans on moving out this summer. I asked her how she thought I was supposed to act, and she didn't have an answer...so I just shared that while I was certainly not happy with where things were going, I make the choice to try to be as positive as I can, work on myself and do the things I feel I need to do. She said she just wanted to make sure I heard and understood that she plans on leaving this summer, I let her know that I did.
I suppose I just feel a bit positive that she notices changes in me and is confused by them, and I want her to be a bit confused about me right now so it is not the same old me (or potentially same old M).

W threw out an interesting new WAW-ism I thought I would share. She said our M and R has been bad for so long, it was like she keep getting the same meal over and over, and at first she liked it, but it started tasting bad, but she keep at it, and then became horrible and left a really bad taste in her mouth...so now she is just so turned off by it that she doesn't even want to try it, even if it looks a little different, because she still has that bad taste in her mouth. I validated, and at some point, if the time ever seems right is right, I think I might lightheartedly come back with the idea that I am learning how to cook all new things, and the plate is not only going to look very different, but could taste very different as well.