Being thankful and praying

[25yearsmlc]

I agree with Harrier.

I work with mostly men and It would be very very difficult for me to have ZERO contact with someone I'd already worked with on a research project.

It would look very weird for me to ask for an intermidiary AND besides, OW never reciprocated his feelings so he'd look extra stalker-ish.

He opened up to YOU about what was having to happen with her at work and how limited it would be. He hid nothing.

You over reacted big time and then, thank God, you let the divine in.

Keep that up.

[angel61]

Two and two now.....

Oh well, let me clarify a little....

H's traveling in the past - I think he is powerful enough in the company to lessen the amount of travel he was doing.... had he given them enough justification. But he didn't. Put two and two together. But thats past now and I understand that was the time he was falling for OW really hard.

Present situation - if H really desired so, he also is powerful enought to say that OW is no longer needed. Truth to tell, I think they could survive without her, but she would be the most logical choice as of now because she performed well during the time she was working for them (before she went to the US for her post doc leave).

Caveat: The research project won't last forever, give or take another year or two and they will be done with OW's country, and they will be starting studies in Europe and the US. Hopefully then OW's role will be done by then.

Intermediaries won't work, I agree with 25.

And oh, by the way, even if OW says now that she is not interested because H is married (notice the qualifier, if he were not married then what?), initially she did reciprocate in a sense by acknowledging that there was something special between them (soulmate or something similar, as H described to me long ago). I doubt she ever said ILY to him though. They cut it off after Thanksgiving last year, then when their contact resumed it was more friendly in character, from what H explains, and that gradually, the emotional flavour went away. from my snooping, I know that as late as August, there were still some emotions mentioned on my H's part (he sent an email to her saying that he was overwhelmed by memories when he went to OW's home country sometime end of July) but OW replied simply, can't remember what.

As of now, two forces are at work within my H:

One is the waning force of OW attraction, and his dependence on her to give him the "high", even if its just friendhip.

The other force is that of him wanting to work on our M, his commitment, his realization that we do have love and can learn to love more, and that he wants to keep his family intact and do the right thing.

His actions show that regarding the first force, he is letting go, albeit slowly and in a manner that is easiest to him (cake eating maybe, I don't mind as long as it works and as he says, it keeps him sane).

I have to hang my hat on the premise that as a good person with the right upbringing, morals and values, he will let the second force ultimately take over.

[Cyrena]

I agree that cake eating isn't quite the right term, but couldn't think of one to cover that period of time when the person who has had the EA is still minimizing their level of emotional involvement, the amount of choice they had in making contact, and the effect on their spouse. They seem to hope that they can have 2 things at once: a great marriage AND good feelings/friendship/memories with the OW.

My H also insisted that it would be unavoidable and necessary to keep in contact with his OW for work projects; however, once the emotions which drove him through this period changed, he made arrangements so that they would never have to work together, or be at conferences together, again. Then, he had no desire to see her again, and stopped envisioning her as a completely innocent party in their EA.

Angel, I think that, the better your R becomes, the more your H will lose his need for the OW. But you need to let him come to that place--pushing him faster than he's ready to go will just backfire on you because it is controlling. So keep giving him the space to work on himself, and try to work on your sense of trust that your H (and God) will deliver, without needing you to push as well.

[angel61]

My dear Cyrena,

I am so amazed at how we think alike, and how our H's react in the same way. Cake-eating was exactly the words that popped in my mind when I was re-analyzing what happened yesterday. You are so right with the minimizing actions that H is doing. H does think that OW is free of fault, and even once said she is part of the solution because she rejected him and made him thnk what a fool he was to be a middle aged, married man trying to run after a single, young woman. And although he knows how much his actions hurt our family, he is avoiding facing it by saying that the past is past.

.

Angel, I think that, the better your R becomes, the more your H will lose his need for the OW. But you need to let him come to that place--pushing him faster than he's ready to go will just backfire on you because it is controlling. So keep giving him the space to work on himself, and try to work on your sense of trust that your H (and God) will deliver, without needing you to push as well.

I think the best way to approach all this is exactly how you worded it above.

I will keep on praying and curb my controlling instincts. I hope that when the time comes that H will travel to OW's country for the first time I will be able to keep from pushing, that I can maintain my calmness. It gets harder as we go along with the reconciliation, because I can't help but develop some expectations....hey, that's it, thats what made me pushy! But I will keep posting and with everyone's help, and with God, I know that someday we will get there.

[25yearsmlc]

Two and two now.....

Oh well, let me clarify a little....

H's traveling in the past - I think he is powerful enough in the company to lessen the amount of travel he was doing.... had he given them enough justification. But he didn't. Put two and two together. But thats past now and I understand that was the time he was falling for OW really hard.

Present situation - if H really desired so, he also is powerful enought to say that OW is no longer needed.

so b/c of Your fears about your h's possible behavior, she should lose her job? Am I really the only person who thinks that's unfair?


Truth to tell, I think they could survive without her, but she would be the most logical choice as of now because she performed well during the time she was working for them (before she went to the US for her post doc leave).

Caveat: The research project won't last forever, give or take another year or two and they will be done with OW's country, and they will be starting studies in Europe and the US. Hopefully then OW's role will be done by then.


then there's an end in sight anyhow.

Intermediaries won't work, I agree with 25.

And oh, by the way, even if OW says now that she is not interested because H is married (notice the qualifier, if he were not married then what?),

3 men overtly sought me when I was in the military. I said I was married. I guess I COULD have said "and even if I were not married I would not be interested" -- but I left it at "I'm married."

I would NOT read into what she said and assume she implied anything. She didn't need to.

He was not available so she didn't consider him as an option. I see that as totally reasonable. It's the normal thing to say. She MAY have had feelings for him OR she may have tried to let him down gently...

I mean, she needs the job, right?


initially she did reciprocate in a sense by acknowledging that there was something special between them (soulmate or something similar, as H described to me long ago). I doubt she ever said ILY to him though.

They cut it off after Thanksgiving last year, then when their contact resumed it was more friendly in character, from what H explains, and that gradually, the emotional flavour went away.


I follow this...fyi...given the givens, I'm still not alarmed.


from my snooping, I know that as late as August, there were still some emotions mentioned on my H's part (he sent an email to her saying that he was overwhelmed by memories when he went to OW's home country sometime end of July) but OW replied simply, can't remember what.

As of now, two forces are at work within my H:

One is the waning force of OW attraction, and his dependence on her to give him the "high", even if its just friendhip.

If it's just friendship, like it now sounds, there won't be much of a "high". You give it too much power.

The time I had what MIGHT be described as an EA (20 some years ago while h was an intern, grouchy and never around and we were both military and the Gulf War had begun--pretty stressful, )

I recall having a crush on OM who worked with me. He paid A LOT of attention to me at the exact time h was too busy and tired. I was lonely and vulnerable and OM looked like Kevin Costner.

I almost thought I was "in love"...took me about a year or TWO, to get through all that and then I stared at myself and wondered what the heck I was thinking...I then realized I had been sort of crazy to think I felt "love" for OM. I barely knew him!

Thank God I worked through it all without ruining things in the m. IN some ways I learned so much, including not to be so judgemental...things are not always black and white.

If h had found out and tried to shame me, I would have left him. Not "For OM" but b/c I would justify my "almost" affair. I'd blame h. And if he tried to corner me I'd be so angry b/c I DID feel lonely in my m then. and I did blame h, b/c he chose medical school AFTER we married and changed our lives forever.

I did not choose that. He did. He put me in a position to be alone at night MANY nights, for YEARS...raising our kids and taking care of the home and finances AND working full time at my own job which always always took second to his.

So yeah, I'd be mad as heck if he tossed that in my face when I myself had worked it out as your h has.

Your h feels foolish as it is, why must you keep at this? It's like you want him to justify it and trust me, if you force him to, YOU won't end up in a better position. Let this go.




The other force is that of him wanting to work on our M, his commitment, his realization that we do have love and can learn to love more, and that he wants to keep his family intact and do the right thing.


THIS IS WHAT YOU PRAYED FOR...RIGHT?

His actions show that regarding the first force, he is letting go, albeit slowly and in a manner that is easiest to him (cake eating maybe, I don't mind as long as it works and as he says, it keeps him sane).


This is NOT cake eating...Angel, seriously...let this go.


I have to hang my hat on the premise that as a good person with the right upbringing, morals and values, he will let the second force ultimately take over.

I agree w/this^^^-

but I can see how your fears and anger could push him away...don't blow this.

You must LET THIS GO...now.

Thats all I can tell you.

[alone]

Angel,

I have no wise words of advise for you. I just wanted to let you know that when I read your post here that I cried. The things that you are going through are just like what I am doing and feeling. Just always remember that when you fall of the track pick yourself up and dust off the emotional baggage that we carry and look forward to today and your future. You have to be a strong and caring person to get where you are in your relationship at this time. I do believe that forgiveness will help. That is where I am at I truly need to forgive my husband not just say it.

My thoughts are with you. It will not be an easy road but one that will be worthwhile.

[angel61]

Thank you for all the advise and encouragement.

I did see the bad effect of what I did yesterday. Harrier, you are right when you said that what I did was damaging. When H arrived back from his trip, he seemed distant and withdrawn. I already had a feeling (judging from the different reactions I saw here) that he was now seeing how I regressed. In my panic, I asked him what was wrong, and boom! That created instant problems! His response was
"Nothing. Can't I have bad moments?" and instead of cutting it off at that point, I retorted:
"I was just asking. Why bite my head off?" to which he said (this was bad)
"well, I know what you are thinking.... I am in a bad mood because I talked to her while I was away..."
I started saying "I was not thinking that way..."I bit off my answer at that point, and tears sprang to my eyes, and just rushed to the bathroom (we just got to the gym at that point).

The rest of the evening was again on and off good and bad interaction. This time it was he who was in attack mode.

I guess I deserve it.

Anyways, by bedtime we were in full fighting mode, with me being petty and banging stuff around to attract attention, acting out like a kid, and him attacking everything I said. I finally told him that I was just being immature and needing attention, and that I was not mad, and that I had no intention of bringing up OW in conversation as we already had ironed that out two nights ago.

We decided we really needed to go to this coming weekends retrouvaille post, which is on conflict management. Even if its eating up our Christmas shopping time. We have been so busy with Retrou that till now, we have a Christmas tree with only half the lights on and no ornaments!

We finally went to bed, and I tossed and turned the whole night, berating myself for my actions, and telling myself that I should really make a big effort to just let go, stop reacting, go back to find my center which I had before all this.

I was laughing when he woke up, cause I was thinking of rules for fighting, and wondering how to implement them when we are in full fighting mode. I shared this with him, he said I overthought everything, so I should just shut up and give him a back massage.

Pray for me, friends, that I find my happy place again. This is tiring.

[angel61]

oops, edit

he said I was thinking that he was in a bad mood because he probably talked to her while he was away. I did not try to confirm anything. I just put in my mind that from now on, I wont care of they talk or not.

[angel61]

By the way 25, I really enjoyed your post to me.

Regarding OW and the job .... no, she does not need it. Its an interesting side job for her - she is freakin' rich, just to let you know, and could survive without working for the rest of her life. She is a doctor too, and just finished her post-doc, so she does have a few years where she won't be so busy. Also, re-hiring her means firing the guy who has filled in for her position while she was away, and this guy needs the money as he just got married!

I like how you dissected your EA.... and I also have something to share. At work, there is also this guy (married too, much younger than me) who likes me, and he does show his appreciation and attraction. He would sometimes come over just to tell me I look great. Honestly, it flatters me, and I do chat with him, just enough to keep his attention. I do tell him though that I am commited to my marriage so he doesn't get any ideas. But his admiration is something that does strokes my ego. Maybe that is what my H is to OW.

I am letting go. I just need to control myself. Can't blow this -so near, so precious, so much work done.

[angel61]

I saw MZ had a little list of things to do while in piecing. Let me make mine too.... and note, this will be subject to change as needed!

1. Say Good morning and good night everyday
2. Give him a 3 second hug every evening
3. Do not ask "what's wrong", allow him his down moments, let him have his space
4. No why questions (for now)
5. No snooping
6. Do not mention OW - she is a non-entity. This is funny, let me share this. In H's phone, OW is listed as "nobody".
7. No defending, demanding or judging allowed.
8. Pray, pray and pray