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#2200315 11/21/11 05:19 PM
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I have floated around on the mid-life crisis boards for years and while what I am currently doing may be considered "piecing", I currently feel drawn to this board. Maybe it is because I can relate to Accruray so much.....I am not sure. I just know I need to vent a little to understanding people and maybe get a new adjusted perspective.

For starters I am a veteran of the whole midlife crisis issue and the personal growth that accommodates such happenings. So I am aware of GAL, etc and do employee these aspects into my life. The real issue is trying to deal with the resentment that is starting to brew inside me. It feels like I have spent many years being respectful and understanding of my wife's position. Probably to far, as in multiple friends have noted "that I was forgotten" and everything became about my wife. No compromise......My therapist actually referred to my experiences as bordering on mental/emotional abuse. For a brief time line;

1995-Met and had a satisfying intimate relationship

1998-Married and started working towards conception (fertility issues forced this issue) and the old "have to have sex now" thing

1999-Son is born....sex life diminishes understandably, but is still a few times per month

2001-Try for second child.....Had a massive fight this time because I really did not enjoy the "have sex right now" thing.

2002-Daughter is born....Sex diminishes more, but once again understandable.

2002-2006-Our intimate life can almost be scheduled to once every 11 weeks. Constant rejection for various reasons begins to wear on my confidence.

2006-2009-Wife has first affair....I become a regular here and focus a lot on personal growth in many areas that needed it.

2009-Second affair...So called friendship...wife has shared details of this one since it was hidden well behind the veil of friendship

Fall of 2009-spring of 2010-No affairs, wife wants to be home, but has no relationship with me.

Summer of 2010 to spring of 2011-Wife has third affair...moves out this time.

Summer 2011-Lots of reconciliation...apologizes...very hard and trying conversations. Sex life starts up and picks up. I note that this is important to me.

That is my last 5 years in a nutshell. Yes there is A LOT more, but that is definitely the abridged version.

During the last affair, I had a relationship with another woman. I was fully prepared at that point to move on. While were would be defined as "friends with benefits" she did help me get over the pain of the constant rejection I had faced for the previous decade. Some of the things I learned is that it was okay to "want" for myself. That as a person I should be fulfilled to the greatest extent...mentally, physically, spiritually, and emotionally. This is something I had not been in many years of my marriage.

So currently we are trying to piece our marriage back together. I love that my best friend is once again in my life. Overall things are going very well. We communicate a lot more than we used to, etc. All the things that I would anticipate happening. The downer is that our intimate life has once again gone back to nothing.

This is causing me to start questions myself and also feel very resentful. While do not know, nor care to know, a lot about her first affairs I do know a lot of details about the third. That has turned into one of those dual sided blades to say the least. The first issue for me is that they shared many graphic photos. The fact the shared these isn't massive, more the issue is that I have never received the same from my wife. It makes me feel like I am not "worthy" of such things. Maybe I am overreacting or feeling to much about the subject....but it hurts to know that your wife sees you in a different light.

The second is the reported amount of intimate activities when we were apart. My wife reported that they had contact at least once everyday if not more (she also noted prior to that that she was an extremely sexual person). This in the end caused her resentment and pain (the whole topic came up because I could see the pain on her face in a conversation)as she felt she "had" to have sex with him whenever he wanted to maintain their relationship. I will also have to add that during this time I was having sex 1-2 times per week and was very happy with that. I definitely don't need sex everyday nor do I want it.

So now I am sitting here...resentful of the fact that for years I contained my own yearnings, as a compromise I guess, but that there wasn't excuses to not have sex when with her other lovers. She has noted that the third affair made her feel like a sexual object. To the point were one night watching TV she flipped out because I put my hand on her leg and she thought I was pressuring her to have sex. So there are many facets to our problem.......

Thoughts...questions...shot away and I will answer to the best of my skill.

To Jack-I hope life has treated you well my friend....So how are you today?


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Here's my advice, for what it's worth. I would not compare your wife's desire for you with her desire for her affair partners. Affairs are exciting, short-term relationships in which sexual desire is at its peak. Sexual desire in the context of a long-term relationship will never be the same as it is in the context of an affair. So comparisons are pointless.

Now on to you. The reality for you at this point is that your wife does not sexually desire you much, if at all, and hasn't for a long time. That's a painful truth, but you have to accept it you want to move forward. I strongly reocmmend that you not try to figure out the reasons for her lack of sexual desire, let alone try to fix her (or push her to fix herself). Just let her know very clearly how you feel about it. Also, if you have a boundary (such as that you will not stay married for longer than X number of months if things don't improve), let her know that, too. Then leave the rest up to her. Either she will change or not. You can't change her.

HDhusband #2200339 11/21/11 06:53 PM
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Hey Lost,

I understand the feeling.

I think all of this can be boiled down to a few points as long as the two people involved really care about each other.

Time.
Using it productively, or not using it productively. That's mainly MLC and Newcomers, a little Piecing though.

Communication.
Productive or not productive.
More in SSM and Piecing.

Are you both talking...and more importantly listening to each other? When sex wanes, are you sullen and believing she should know better?

Cause, that right there is passive aggresive and I don't know many chicks who find that attractive.

It is all in how you broach and approach her about it.

This is a marriage it is a hand's on approach. You're involved, so be involved.

This is all about communicating and finding a way for both of you to appreciate and meet each others wants.



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

TRUST THE PROCESS - Cadet

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LostForWords,

Wow, you have tolerated a lot! You must love her very much. I identify with how you are feeling. I have been reading "Passionate Marriage" as I referenced which is very eye-opening. It definitely talks about the fact that low desire is not necessarily a "problem" with the LD partner. It's more likely a reflection of how they feel about themselves, how they feel about the marriage and a myriad of other things that neither of you may ever get your heads around. We're often tempted to think there is a single cause (medical, history of abuse, etc.). Although that "cause" may seem to fit 100%, it's highly unlikely that the dynamics are anywhere near that simple.

I don't know if I feel better about that knowledge, but it has taught me that my W does not need to be "fixed", and that there is no one "root cause" to address that will make everything better. Historically I ran the gamut of suspecting that my wife must be secretly gay, that my wife must have deep rooted psychological issues, etc. because I absolutely could not understand how anyone could have such a low sex drive and be ok with it.

One funny thing is that I was reading a sitch on the Infidelity board where the H walked away and the W was historically low desire. Thinking about the LD dynamics, I was thinking to myself: "This would be like dating a woman and being very chatty, interested in her life, always making conversation etc. Then, after you get married, just stopping talking to her and telling her you're no longer interested in conversation, and you don't think there's anything wrong with that -- how would the woman feel about that? If she came looking for conversation and I called her a 'Talk Maniac'". I kind of laughed thinking that was a great comparison to how HD husbands feel they've been treated regarding sex. Unfortunately, I then realized that was *exactly* what I had done to my wife at some point -- I just hadn't put it into those terms until right then.

I didn't do it willfully, and my W only challenged me on it once and gave up, but I did it all the same. Painful bit of self-realization.

Question for you -- "Passionate Marriage" talks a bit about control dynamics in relationships. The LD partner obviously controls the amount of sex, etc. The other dynamic is who pursues, and who is BEING pursued. Typically when you get married, one person did the bulk of the pursuing, and the other person more or less agreed.

My pet suspicion is that the majority of LBS people on this board or "cheated on" spouses were the ones doing the pursuing in the initial courting period.

Because we did the chasing initially, we:

1) Value our spouses more than they value us, we had to hunt them down!

2) Have an inferiority complex because we want them more than they want us

3) Are willing to put our needs in the back seat, and are less likely to "dig in" because we fear them walking away more than they fear us walking away.

When we first "win" this person, we feel really good about it, but eventually don't feel so good because we feel less wanted than we would like, and that starts to drive all kinds of negative dynamics. Our spouses may definitely "love" us, but it has different roots than our love for them, and that's a source of friction.

What do you think LostForWords, were you the pursuer, or the pursued? What do you think of my pet theory? Did your outside relationship have anything to do with your wife becoming interested in reconciling? What does she think about that relationship you had?

(I was definitely the pursuer, both originally, and in the reconciliation. I have often thought if walking out may equalize that, but concluded probably not, she wouldn't come looking.)

--Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Accuray #2200366 11/21/11 09:08 PM
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One other thing (you have me all fired up) -- after our second was born I got very passive aggressive about the lack of sex and decided to "test" how long W would go before she would initiate. I ended up waiting for 16 months before I couldn't take it any more. W never even noticed. I confronted her about my experiment at one point and she denied it, I still don't think she believes it. Not even on her radar.

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Accuray #2200735 11/23/11 01:22 PM
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To clarify, I am not trying to "fix" my wife. We are all well aware that the only person we can fix is ourselves. Other people are responsible for "fixing" themselves vice versely. So there is not any misconception in my mind about that. As for the comparison....yes it is unrealistic to make such comparisons yet the scars of years of this behavior are uncovered by the reality of it.

Time- We use it productively and do things together as a couple and as a family. The twist I might be missing is that at the moment I have to much time as my businesses have once again slowed up to nothing....so I have excessive time on my hands. I do keep busy, but there is only so much busy to do in a day...LOL.

Communication-We have always maintained a decent level of communication and now it is even better on both sides of the ball. We talk a lot...and it is productive communication with good listening and hearing. The days of one or the other of us getting defensive and argumentative are gone.

As for the passive aggressive sullenness....yes I am guilty of that in the past. There is no doubt in that. In my rebuilding process that was one area that I did focus some mental rebuilding. I made the decision that I wouldn't passive aggressively "beg" for intimacy anymore. So I don't do it anymore....as Jack said, that is definitely not an attractive trait.

AS for the pursuing...my wife was the pursuer. Actually to the point that she asked me to marry her. That said, as our sex life's diminished I became the pursuer more and more. To the point she has noted in the past that I was "to easy". In my opinion it feels almost like my wife enjoys the pursuit more than being pursued. I think that heightened the "affair" euphoric high for her in that she was pursuing something that wasn't hers.

As for communicating about sex....that was a hard topic to discuss before and it is now harder. My wife has noted that the third affair made her feel very used sexually and nothing more than an object. When we discussed this she noted that she would love it if I initiated things, but at the same time when I do it sends shivers up her spine and she becomes extremely uncomfortable. So in essence derailing any thoughts I might have had because of the affects her past is having on her present. So that is a hurdle for her to work on.....at the same time I think it brings a hurdle up for me to jump. I have been here before (between 2 and 3) working on the other parts of our marriage while waiting to see if this part would reemerge. Then it never reemerged. Then another affair manifested itself.

So maybe it is fear that is driving my resentment at the moment. That I have been here before and things regressed in my opinion instead of moving forward.


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You certainly have a very mature attitude about it. Like me you seem to be stuck in a place where W acknowledges sexual issues, but isn't motivated to deal with them. What do we do about that?


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Accuray #2200839 11/23/11 07:14 PM
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Lost,

would you agree that there is a difference between "making love" and having sex?

Maybe that's what your wife needs?

Not to feel like a sex object and more of a love object?

It might be a hard topic...but easy gets you more alone time with your hand.

Work on building up the romance. Hug her or touch her at home without any expectations past the moment. Court her.



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

TRUST THE PROCESS - Cadet

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There is definitely a difference between "making love" and having "sex. For me there really is no question on that. To be quite frank, I am much more of lover than a fracker. Always have been. During the relationship I had while my wife was gone the woman enjoyed the "lover" side of me, but was always pursuing the "fracker" side of sex. While I do agree there are times for just plain old fracking, too do it in that manner over and over gets to be too much like work and a lot less enjoyable than lovemaking.

Maybe that is a thought for me to work on? To put myself in those shoes and remember how it felt to be just an object of temporary physical satisfaction as opposed to something more.

I do court her Jack....with no expectation. As we know...expectation is the the root of a lot of evils.


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