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#2186763 09/16/11 03:37 AM
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Read the book and I have been the LD wife driving my husband away for 12 years. Now he is done, dead inside, and in some type of emotional affair.he won't touch me except if it is the middle of the night and it is subconscious. No sex.

Is there anything I can do now? I finally get it but am afraid it is too late. What types of things would HD husbands want?

We are going to a sex therapist but husband has gone once and doesn't think it will work.


M 44, H 46
D11, D9, D5
Married 12 years
PA confirmed 9/2011
I filed 3/2012
H moved out 7/2012
Nblost #2187763 09/21/11 02:39 AM
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First and foremost...not to be driven away.

And so when you say you've been driving him away for 12 years, it implies you know what you've done and how you've done that. Part of that is probably a feeling of not being appreciated and that you've gotten what you wanted (no or very little sex) and he hasn't.

And what you've produced, at best, is a man who has given up on you, on what it feels like to be close to you, on what it feels like to be vulnerable with you, and what it feels like to have your two bodies intertwined. At worst, you've crested a situation where someone else is preferable (emotional or otherwise) to being with you.

AND why believe your "getting it" at the last moment?

You are going to have deal with all of that before you get back to what he wants at a physical level and what you want from him being sexual with you once again.

The Captain


Last sex: 04/06/1997
Last attempt: 11/11/1997
W Issues "No Means No" Declaration: 11/11/1997
W chooses to terminate sex 05/1998
I gained 60, then lost 85 pounds.
Start running again (marathons)
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Soooooo, are you really LD or just really turned off by the idea of sex with your H? (Asking this PRE-bomb) (The bomb tends to make all LBSs very horny).

AND, while my name is selected to be gender neutral for various reasons, I ask because I am a woman with a high sex drive who was sexually dead in my previous M (the one that brought me to these boards many years ago.)


Best,
Oldtimer
oldtimer #2198666 11/14/11 05:59 AM
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I had forgotten I had posted here...I had just discovered H's affair and I was a mess. At that point, he claimed it was just an EA but it was a full blown PA and is still continuing. I'm posting under Infidelity (full story is there).

I think I was always lower desire than my H, but over the past 5-6 years had gotten worse because of our conversations about it. H made me feel like I wasn't a sexual person and lacked passion. I know I have been more passionate with other people but he really hurt my self-esteem and zapped my sex drive. That said, we did continue to ML at least once every couple weeks if not more often. The other problem was though that between our crazy lives, three kids, moving across the country last year, and two full-time jobs...I had lost myself. I was in a bad mood a lot of nights by the time H got home from work late. None of that helped in the bedroom.

I'm now doing the LRT strategy although H still seems to have a foot in our marriage...so I've also been "romantic" with him when he comes home from his work trips (OW lives in the city where he travels to). He is seeing my increased sex drive and more playfulness. I'm trying to walk a line between being more open/affectionate and coming across as desperate. We now sleep intertwined. I've also lost about 20 pounds since our marriage crisis hit and H has noticed how good I look. I still have insecurities though now that he is involved with someone else...I constantly wonder what OW does that is better than me in bed, etc. Although, I have no doubt it isn't hard to outdo me in his eyes given our history and that they are in a brand new relationship.

I think my next goal is to try to listen to him about his A (when he is ready to talk) and purely listen to what he needs to get from me for our M to improve. I think you are right that he needs to feel accepted and trusted. I sense a bit of that coming back...but hard to know. He claims he needs another month or two in the A to see where it goes...otherwise, he will always wonder.

I would love to get to a better place with H and prove myself to him...although I'm also working on detaching and I believe if H doesn't benefit from the improving me...the next guy will!

Thanks for responding to my initial posting. I was new to the boards and I was hurting so much when I wrote that.

M: 12 years
T: 14 years
Me: 43
H: 45
D10, D8, D4
MLC/problems: 7/11
A confirmed: 9/15/11


M 44, H 46
D11, D9, D5
Married 12 years
PA confirmed 9/2011
I filed 3/2012
H moved out 7/2012
Nblost #2198809 11/14/11 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nblost
...Now he is done, dead inside, and in some type of emotional affair.he won't touch me except if it is the middle of the night and it is subconscious. No sex.

Is there anything I can do now? I finally get it but am afraid it is too late. What types of things would HD husbands want?....


HD husbands want to feel loved and validated.

MWD is really good at solid practical advice to troubled marriages, read her books and articles.

You asked about "things that an HD husband would want."

Well as an HD husband whose wife saw the light during therapy with a sex therapist, let me share some of what I think are important.

First and foremost, I was the one initially trying to save the marriage and not my wife, so this may not work for you at all. It may be too late, or not....only your husband can deside that.

My advice is to figure out how to make your husband feel loved and appreciated. Each person needs different things, and so I can't tell you about what your husband will need. Personally, I like Chapmans 5 LL approach to figuring out what makes a person feel loved.

My suggestion to you would be to carefully examine what you and your H use to do when you dated, and when he seemed really happy.

Many men need to be physically touched to feel loved. That is me. If my wife sits next to me and touches my shoulder, runs her finger through the hair on my head or the hair on my chest, I melt and feel loved.

I know men who feel loved when they come home and their wives have dinner ready for them.

I know men who feel loved when their waves complement them and praise the good things that they do.

I know men who feel loved when their wives give them presents, litting things in a packed lunch, text messages during the day, little notes, etc.

You need to figure out what it is that makes your H feel loved and then see to it that he gets the love he needs from you and not the OW, with whom he is having an affair.

Next, if you think he is having an affair, get yourself tested for STD's. Seriously. If nothing else, it may give him a reason to think about why he should be faithful to you. You owe it to your children if not yourself to get tested.

Make him feel useful, loved and wanted.

When you get the chance to have sex with your H make the most of it. Make it as wonderful an experience for him as you can. Make it something that he will want more of. Tell him that you want sex with you to be the best sex of his life. One sex therapy exercise is to ask him what the best sex was he ever had with you. Then figure out how you can try to repeat that, maybe not the same night he tells you, but try to repeat it and this time try to make it even better. (P.S. for most men, the best sex they have had is when the woman they are with is very enthusiastic in her enjoyment of the sex and the man feels like he has been a great lover as well as having had great sex.)

Most (not all) men really like, enjoy recieving oral sex. If it is something he likes and something you can handle, get yourself a book or a couple of DVD's on how to improve your technique. Be his enthusiastic oral sex partner and take absoulte delight in his body.

Also, most men really like it when a woman tells him how much she likes his body and his penis. While corny, men still like being told how wonderful their penis feels, how exciting it is to their favorite woman, and oh yes, most men like to be told how wonderfully big, firm and full it feels by a woman.

Speaking of DVD's, if you have really been "driving him" away for the past 12 years, then he has probably shifted his satisfying of sexual needs to masturbation and porn, as well as OW. If you can handle it, you might want to see how you can fit into his "new" sexuality as well as being a traditional option. What I am trying to say is if he is now really into porn, figure out how it can be something that you and he do together that brings you together as opposed to his way of emotionally distancing himself from you.

I want to complement you on "getting it" and realizing that you has a lot of responsiblity for where you marriage is and that while not trilled with his affair, you still are trying to save your marriage. That takes a lot of courage. Change on your part to the point where he sees it and starts reacting to the change, will take a while, especially if he is not going to your ST counseling. Remeber that you can not and should not try to force your husband to change, but you can reinforce any positive changes in him and you can change how you act to him so that he has to change how he acts toward you (you just have to let him determine what his new behaviors are).

Good luck to you.


>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
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Thanks young at heart, your post made me want to cry (nothing new these days...but wanted you to know I appreciated all of your insights)

I have read 5 LLs and I think my husband's love languages are touch and positive words. I am trying both. I think he would also like racy text messages during the day, but he's doing that now with OW (and he knows I have seen those)...so it feels "fake" to me to do much of that. However, I have woven in a couple innuendos in my texts.

We haven't had sex for about 6 months now (about 2 months prior to his A...I believe he had potentially met OW when he stopped wtih me). When he comes home on the weekends, we do some things:

-we now sleep intertwined which he has noticed (didn't happen much before)

-I have been much more turned on by him and he has brought me to O with his hand (something that hadn't happened very often before). He commented one morning how much more turned on I have been.

-I wear very cute/sexy underwear and combined with the weight loss...I know he is noticing.

-Last week, I did a lap dance type thing over him while he laid in bed. He "enjoyed" that.

-I have told him a few affectionate things after we have these romantic "interludes"...but, once again, I feel like I need to tread lightly. We don't say ILY anymore.

Part of me feels like going a little crazier but I am worried it is too soon. For example, I could put on a more racy outfit or take out a toy.

The saddest thing for me is that I feel like right now if I asked him to tell me which of our past love making sessions was best...I think he would feel like saying "none of them...it's all been better with the OW". He's told me that his conversations with her are more intimate, she's more "athletic", and she matches his energy better. (from a big picture perspective, I'm not sure those things necessarily can carry a complicated marriage...but they all resonate as things that would be nice to have in the bedroom)

Sounds like it will be key for me to express my enjoyment with him (hoping we get back to that) and also working on opening up more.

Thanks!!!


M 44, H 46
D11, D9, D5
Married 12 years
PA confirmed 9/2011
I filed 3/2012
H moved out 7/2012
Nblost #2198932 11/15/11 12:34 AM
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My heart goes out to you. You do sound like you are trying and that you understand your role in things and want to save your marriage. This is a good website for that.

I will say that some of the emotional scars I have from the sexual rejection by my wife are very deep. There were times when I avoided contact with her out of fear of being emotionally hurt and humiliated by her again. There times that I swore to myself that I didn't care what she might do, that I was never ever going to open myself to that kind of emotional pain from her again. At times it felt better to be numb that to allow her to get close to me and potentially emotionally hurt me. Of course when you have known someone for 40 years, they know your vulnerability. (I/we am much better now.)

My wife also felt vulnerable. The LL's you describe are fairly common for men and you should make him feel loved in those LL's as much as you can, without any expectation from him. It sounds like you have and that you have taken to adding to the touch a degree of sexy flirting, which is great, but you need to understand that he may be afraid of opening up to you and being hurt by you. That is why you need to make him feel loved (and emotionally safe) first. As such make sure that you do touch him in some affectionate way each day, whether it is a hug, kiss or hand on his arm/shoulder. I would also suggest that you praise him for what he does for you and your children. Let him know that you are proud of what he does and what he accomplishes.

There are some rituals that the marriage counselor John Gottman recommends that if you could build them into your morning and evening greetings would probably help. They are at the following website (yes it is a corny website) and toward the bottom of the article: Gottman relationship recommendations on 5 hours per week to make a marriage strong

It took my making my W feel loved in her LL's probably about 5 months along with help from a sex therapist before my W was able to ML to me. I literally have for the past couple of years done multiple things in my wifes primary and secondary LL each and every day so that she feels and knows that she is loved.

If your marriage survives, you will need to have the skills to make it stronger. That is one reason that you really need to work on a GAL. It sounds from what you have read, the weight you have lost, and the actions you have taken to win back you husband that you have a quite active GAL.

May I suggest that one of your GAL activities should be a physical exercise that involves you, your children and potentially your husband. One of mine was running in races. My two adult sons ran in them, along with my oldest son's wife and some of them my wife has participated in. My wife and went for weekend walks and had brunch either before or after. It was a time to walk hand in hand and talk. You don't need to make it running, it can be walking in the park, swimming, bicyling, hiking, or a host of other things.

Find an activity that "builds" family ties and makes you closer to your children and offers you husband an opportunity to also be closer to all of you.

Good luck to you and your family.


>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
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Thanks for the advice, it's great. We have been running as a family when H is home. The kids often ride bikes or scooters (too little to keep up with a real run). H usually has his headphones on but occasionally will try to race me or jokingly (let's hope?) push me off the sidewalk. I also run alone so it isn't just something I do with him. Interestingly though, recently, he's waited for me to go with him versus going by himself.

Question for the sex starved, I think my situation may be gradually improving...but I got a harsh wakeup call this weekend. He admitted (I don't even remember how it came up) that he and OW are going on a weekend trip in the middle of this month. He is very confused on who he wants to be with, but obviously, things are continuing with his A.

The night before, H woke me up in the midddle of the night and said, "I want you". We didn't have intercourse (haven't since way before his A) but did some sexual stuff. The night after I found out about his trip, he was affectionate and we had another sexual encounter which included me giving him some oral sex. (first time he has seemed comfortable with that since his A).

I have been feeling like these encounters help prove I'm not withholding on him...but I also question if I'm enabling his cake eating too much. He knows he is on thin ice with me and I have told him he needs to move out after the holidays if he won't give up his A.

He's only home a couple nights a week...so it isn't happening very often...but do you guys think the sexual stuff is good to be doing? Do you think it seems promising he's warming up in this way to me?

I know I get my hopes up a bit when we are close/intimate...but frankly, it's hard to get my hopes up too much given my sitch. Every day feels like a struggle. I also feel like it reasserts our marriage to have him be intimate with me and I don't feel bad if it causes him increased confusion or some guilt that he's cheating on OW. He holds me afterwards as we fall asleep, so seems also like there is some affection.

My H wouldn't touch me or sleep in the same bed with me for the first couple months of his A. (especially when I was in the dark). I think he was "done" with me at that point.

I also recognize H could just be sex starved when he's home...so he may just be using me.


M 44, H 46
D11, D9, D5
Married 12 years
PA confirmed 9/2011
I filed 3/2012
H moved out 7/2012
Nblost #2201962 11/29/11 02:02 PM
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Nblost,

First off....I like what and how you write very much. Reading your stich though I get the feeling you are caught in one of the 180 catch-22's. Being more sexual and not appearing to "withhold" ML would be a huge 180 in your relationship for you, but at the same time he is continuing to have an affair. So you are in essence trapped. I know that DB does advocate, to a point, maintaining a sexual relationship with a spouse because it does keep that connection. At the same time though you are allowing yourself to be a choice....and I worry what impact that may have on you.

I feel that men are much more likely to do the cakewalk than women from what I have experienced and read on here. When my wife left and moved in with the OM I got a good view into this cakewalking. The OM had setup, prior to my wife moving in, an elaborate system with his wife to have an affair. At first it was all loving and nice.....but after a month or so she started feeling very used. To this he replied that sex with my wife was great and had much more energy, but she just didn't do the things he wanted (and that sex was no were near frequent enough) and that his wife would do. So that built up some hope in his wife and they continued for another month....at which point she became ashamed of just being the other woman and a fling to get him off. So she ceased their activities and with that he stopped talking to her as much. Confirming to her that she was nothing more than a piece for him to have on the side.

The irony of course in knowing everything is that he was getting everything he wanted and more from wife....to the point now that at times she seems almost victimized.

I won't comment one way or the other on continuing with him.....the question is what are you comfortable with being aware of the possibilities?


"Be the changes you want to see in the world"
Lostforwords #2201966 11/29/11 02:28 PM
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Nblost,

Lostforwords offers great advice. I started out thinking that you can't make progress on your relationship while OW is in the picture, so maintaining a sexual relationship is just enabling cake eating.

On the other hand, to your point, if it makes him more conflicted and less likely to leave you for OW is it OK?

I don't think you can "out sex" an affair partner, even if you're "better" in every sense of the word, it's harder for H to let himself go with you than with someone who is less well known. That's something of a marriage tax on sex that has to do with personal development more than the skills of the partners. That said, I don't think this is your objective.

I guess from my perspective, there are 2 key questions:

1) What's it doing for him? Is it truly making him feel closer and more connected to you? OR is it just giving him a thrill, allowing him to satisfy a physical need, but allowing him to remain emotionally uninvested?

2) What's it doing TO you? It can't feel good knowing you are sharing H with OW, and maintaining a sexual relationship has the potential to be demoralizing as you will feel you're giving him all he's asked for and it's still not working. You risk the roller coaster of getting your hopes and expectations up.

I guess there's no simple answer other than to weigh the questions above and see if the positives outweigh the negatives.

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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