Got an apology from XH. Need advice now.

[AntoniaB]

My XH and I have been in contact since the hurricane off and on. There is also a retirement acct. transaction pending that he seems to want to drag out longer to his own detriment. I have just been informing him of things there. At the end of his last email regarding this account, he drops this line on me, that "things at work are worse than ever and that the teaching year won't be good but and that there are big changes that he does not want to deal with." He is sending me these emails, by the way, from his desk in his classroom. This way she won't see/know.

My reply to him said I was sorry to hear that, and that I thought he liked the principal a lot, and that I didnt' know if it would help him, but that it helped me to concentrate on assets in my life instead of problems. I used my yard cleanup as an example, and I said some positive, supportive things to him about his teaching and suggested that he try to focus on the parts of the job that make him happy. I told him that I was taking a meditation class today to help me focus on assets instead of problems, and that when I learned to practice med. today I'd send him peaceful thoughts.

It is important to me to try to accept things and forgive myself, so I am showing him MY positive changes and reinforcing them for myself.

So this is what I got back. It is an apology of sorts, though brief. I do not know what to reply, and I need help with that.

"You are being way too kind. You owe me nothing and that includes any form of sympathy. The only thing you should hear from me is an apology for the way our divorce went down so for what it's worth, I'm sorry for what I put you through. It wasn't right but it also wasn't planned so I didn't excatly know how cruel it was at the time. Again, I'm sorry.

I too have had a lot of new experiences that have shaped my perspective on things. My life outside of school is good but readjusting is even harder when they've turned everything upside down. I survive like I have for 21years in this profession. I just hope for a return to sanity some time before I retire.

Take care,

-d.

BTW, now that some time has passed. If there is anything you want back that you have given me just ask. I have it stored in a closet and I really down know what to do with any of it. It may stay in storage forever."


What do I say to this? I really don't know what to say.

I am a bit bothered that he has offered to give me things back. What he means by "things" are this: a large needlework picture that I made for him for our anniversary that had a poem "to my loving husband" on it; a photo album of pictures of me and the cats that had a handmade cover on it that said "when this you see, remember me." Also, a mug I gave him in college that said "I love you this much" and had a pic of a bear on it, which was his nickname for me.

This is ALL HE HAS of our marriage. No other photos; no other "evidence." He doens't even have the letters I sent him. I have all the letters.

NO, I don't want these things back. I think he should keep something of the marriage and I don't understand why he wants to give it back now.

But anyway, there above is the so-called holy grail. The apology.

What do I do with it?

He is firmly tied to OW, pics on facebook, trip to Spain under his belt, yadda yadda.

I don't think he's out of any tunnel. Advice on how to respond?

[AntoniaB]

Oh and also--note that I got this when I was cordial or even kind to him and showed I moved on with my life. That seems to be what triggered this VERY off-topic response from him in which he sort of "defended" that his personal life is good while his work life isn't, and of course, I never brought up his personal life, AND he suddenly sticks in there "you can take back this meaningful stuff."

MHL's thread had these 4 levels of remorse. Where do you see him at?

am sorry I got caught.

I am sorry I caused you pain.

I am sorry I caused you pain and I feel bad about it.

I am sorry I caused you pain and I understand why you are hurt.

I'm thinking he's at 2 or MAYBE 3. So that should also affect my response.

But in general, I guess I'd like to know what to respond and why his response is SO off topic, where the heck did this come from just out of the blue?

[beatrice]

OK, I read your first post and needed to think about it, so went outside and picked up windfall apples, then I had a glass of wine and thought about things . . . .

Umm I agree, 2, 3 is pushing it. A friend of mine has a MLC stbx, he is the opposite of my xh, in that always hers wants people to think he is a good guy. So he says sorry all the time, but doesn't follow through. Now, it feels like there is some of this in what your xh said. He wants you and others to think well of him, that what he did wasn't so terrible was it? Notice how he is letting himself off the hook? Still very MLC. He is sorry, but . . .. However, that is better than nothing. There are a number of issues here.

Why did he write it in the first place? Work pressures are clearly getting to him - maybe you made his work life easier than OW? maybe that is the way the world is going - MLCers always blame externalities rather than looking within.

He cares for you A, but he is still in MLC imho.

I would ignore the offer to give things back, just don't respond on that one. It could be that he wants to see you, hurt you a little, that they make him uneasy. Who knows?


What do you think he wants to hear from you? Is it renewed contact [he is probably missing you] Is it absolution? He probably feels guilty on some level.

I would leave it at least 24 hours before replying; other people will probably have some great ideas about what to say.

What do you want to happen? Do you want to keep the door ajar while he continues his MLC? Do you want to shut him off? What is the best outcome for you?

Actions will speak louder than words. What you say probably doesn't matter too much, but don't say anything to make him feel better, like 'it is OK' Something like, 'Thank you for the apology. It is always hard saying sorry. I hope things pick up professionally. Good wishes' And that is it. My 2c.

[AntoniaB]

I like that you picked up apples and had some wine while you thought. Sounds like something I'd do.

I am not trying to mind-read at all here, but I do know him best.

I can fill in that he works in the same building with OW. But she has taught 5 years. He and I have taught 18 or more each. The experience of dealing with administrator stuff is something he ALWAYS confided in me about (and I him).

For at least 10 years prior to our divorce, he would email me while he was at work during his planning period first thing in the morning or at lunch, especially to vent if he was stressed, as he always was. For the past 2 days, he has fallen into this pattern, and I've simply been available to answer him every time.

What do I think? I think he just witnessed himself fall into his old pattern with me. How easy it was to do so. EVEN THOUGH we're divorced. And on top of that, he never was able to push my buttons and get into an altercation. He moaned about the retirement acct., and I let it ride. He cried about his job, and I was nothing but support. He was used to my being a partner in cynicism for a long time, and instead, I rose above it and was kind. Even to a person who doesn't "deserve" it.

I am sure this triggered guilty feelings in him, and so he wants to give away that which makes him feel attached or guilty. I think this is more his attempt to walk away before he feels something again than his attempt to truly be sorry.

I think he expects a big reply from me that has emotion or an "I will always love you." That is my pattern. I'm not going there anymore.

BUT, no, I dont' really want to close the door. It's like I'm leaving the door open while I'm turned away from it living my life. But I'm still there.

I won't respond till I hear a bunch of feedback. The shorter the better, I think, but I don't want it to come off at all like I'm being dismissive or hurt or anything. Like if I just say "thanks for the apology" I feel like he will take that like I'm not as detached as I say and that I'm hurt by him still and therefore being really close-mouthed.

I guess this goes to MHL's reply in a way, though the apology he got had more to it than that.

Do I give any indication that I'm ok with him still contacting me about anything?

[beatrice]

I guess I meant short, not in dismissive, but to the point - you know him best!

Again, I wouldn't give any indication of whether you are OK about him contacting you. Let him worry about that one, unless you don't want him to contact you. If you find you don't want it, down the line, assuming he continues, then you can say then, rather than worrying about it now.

Antonia, these guys want to know we are still there.

[goodattitudegirl]

Antonia,

I've am dealing with a somewhat similar situation with XH right now and trying to find my way as well. I have been on an emotional journey this summer but I'm sorry that I haven't taken the time to journal about it on my thread (if it even still exists somewhere???).

What I think is true in my situation ---- and probably also in yours ---- right now is what many posters have referred to. Beatrice referred to this phenomenon in her post above: the MLCer wants to know that we are still there.........and as long as we are RIGHT there for them, they will not be able to realize what their life is like without us. Backing off is scary for us because they may find someone else to meet the needs that we have fulfilled. I know that you have already been through this "on steroids" when you cut your XH off last spring. I would imagine that at this point the thought of opening yourself up to more potential emotional pain (similar to what MHL and Grit are thinking about right now) causes you to be circumspect about how you handle the evolution of this new contact with XH.

XH and I had a heated discussion at the end of June that really affected our interactions. That interaction was really a gift to me that allowed me to see that XH really isn't the person that I knew before. It allowed me to pull away emotionally from the man who inhabits XH's body now (while still loving the man that I knew in the past) and really for the first time planning my life as a single woman again......and about 6 weeks after I pulled away, XH began to initiate again. 2 weeks ago he asked me out for a casual dinner and drinks after PP (he asked 1 week in advance --- interesting ---he treated), when 8 weeks before he had told me he wanted NO socializing with me outside of playing PP..........I am not jumping to respond to every contact XH makes with me, but getting to it when I have time and am so inclined. From where I sit (and you know your situation better than anyone, so please take this with a grain of salt) I think that you should do the same. If you keep filling that need that XH has by being a counsellor and a shoulder to lean on, XH will never have to recognize that OW can't provide that for him because she doesn't have the breadth of experience, insight, or capacity for analysis that you have.

Just my 2 cents.............oh, and I'm really glad to see that you survived the hurricane intact. I have a medium-sized yard and I have been busy keeping my yard groomed all summer, so I applaud your efforts on yours. ........About a month ago I drove past XH's house to see long grass growing out of his concrete steps and the flowers planted in his front pots were dead and dried in the heat. Guess we're doing pretty well, huh?

Best,

GAG

[MHL]

Antonia,

How does it feel to be the OW........

That is what you have become....

I love this VVVVVVVVVV.

He is sending me these emails, by the way, from his desk in his classroom. This way she won't see/know.

He is still filling his emotional needs with you.

It is also obvious that he has felt the fact that you are "moving forward" with your life.

I think that when they do notice that then they feel safe coming out of the tunnel because you are not going to drag them further from the safety of that life they created.

For some they have to be left totally alone before the safety of the tunnel turns into another trap.

I wonder when he will start complaining about the OW to you. If you could stomach it you might want to ask how he and the OW are doing. (This would be advanced DB301 for upper classmen only )

I think that it is great that you are able to be supportive of him.......if the job is not going well then there is probably some other stuff that is not so great too.

Soooo on to his apology........

In a way he is acknowledging your positive changes, they have long forgotten all the crap they spewed about us and they are left with what they see today. The thing they do remember is the things they did, that they can't forget.

Your XH feels indebted to you right here.......

"You are being way too kind. You owe me nothing and that includes any form of sympathy. The only thing you should hear from me is an apology

He knows that you are a good person and that someone like him would be lucky to be with you.

I think they also feel that if we were to take them back that it would somehow reflect poorly on us..........I can hear the thoughts running around in their head, "She would be dumb to take on someone like me, why would she do something stupid like that?"

Do you see what is going on here??? They have regulated themselves to some sort of second class citizen, and they are going to revel in that, it is comfortable. They dare not reach above their class because they could not handle the fall......in a way they are protecting themselves..........

They feel they are not worthy.......and when you give him words of sympathy it makes the guilt come back.......and we all know what a MLCer does with guilt.........

they avoid it at all costs........

thus the self serving nature of the apology.......

Now my 4 stages of remorse or apology are just from memory, I do not know that to be fact but I will say that it makes sense to me.

I would agree that your XH is somewhere between 2 and 3 on the MHL scale of remorse.....hahahahaha.

Maybe I could start rating apologies like Jim Cantore rates Hurricanes on the weather channel.

More later, gotta get my daughter to therapy........I need to get mine too.......pass my corona!!!

Cheers

[irishblessings]

Antonia -
You are doing really well. As I read through your posts - I wasn't thinking about what HE was saying. Mostly because I don't think it matters. IMO HE is not a healthy choice for you right now.
A seasoned poster here (25...she's great) - often talks about keeping the road back home paved...or something like that. I'm reading your post as an outsider but my thoughts went to you keeping yourself moving forward and don't get too caught up in his words. It's his ACTIONS that really count.
(Remember to say the same things to me IF my XH ever moves beyond "I'm sorry I got caught!)
IB

[MHL]

Antonia,

As far as a response goes, I would acknowledge the apology and tell him that you appreciate it. That is what I said to my XW.

Somehow saying "Thank You" does not fit........I don't really say thank you to something I expect......and as unhealthy as it might sound, I think we all do "expect an apology" one day.

I think something along the lines of......

XH, I carefully read your last email and what you had to say. I appreciate your apology. As far as my sympathies go it is something that I would say to anyone that was sharing their feelings with me. You keep the mug, needlepoint and etc etc. they are yours.

Less is more here.

I think I would continue to engage him as long as it does not hurt you. That is a fine line for sure.

I will tell you that tonight I was a little more "friendly" with my XW tonight when she came to pick up my son.

It is definitely easier with the apology behind us, I however feel that there might be more to come.

You are doing well, just keep moving forward with your life.

Cheers

[AntoniaB]

Ok everyone, this is all such good advice, thank you. I know, the shorter the better is best. And I appreciate all the feedback. I still didn't decide what to do...I'll wait till tomorrow to respond.

But a friend suggested that I focus on ME. And I came up with this.

"All things happen for a reason. I'm finally the person I hoped and wished I could be, I truly love myself as an individual, and I see nothing but growth and new experiences in my future."

What's your reaction to that?

I just realized I didn't even address the apology.

I guess I could add "Apology accepted." right before the first sentence? Or does "all things happen for a reason" sort of cover it?