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Originally Posted By: dbmod

There is a better option: Listen. Really get to understand her. DO NOT agree with her, but don't argue with her. There's a difference. (What you resist persists.)

Validating is not agreeing. It is letting her know her point of view really matters to you. You want to understand her side of things, and even more for a woman--her feelings. You want to understand how your actions or lack of actions have impacted her.

Then change accordingly.


Thanks Dbmod, this is how I handled things last night and I felt like progress was made...it could be false hope - but at least I live to fight another day so to speak.


Me - 34
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M - 8 years
T - 15 years
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Originally Posted By: habitacker
mj144, it is funny you bring up home improvements. My house is like a brand new house in 2 months time. New windows, new doors,new roof. Guess what? She took it as pursuing. How do I know that you may ask? Because...

I JUST DID THE VALIDATING TALK. Do it. Trust me. It is like the tension blew out my new doors and windows and flew right out of the house.

I want to talk about this more, but it is so late because the W and I talked so much. Yipee.

Thank you everyone so much for puting up with my attitude the last couple days, I was really getting flustered.

It was like nothing was going on with my sitch, and all of a sudden everyone can tell by the tone of my writing that something is wrong, and you all came to the rescue. Thank you all very much.

I will try to tell all my details of our talk tomorrow. Good and bad. Bad being I talked to much, but overall I think a good score.


Awesome stuff Habit, I'm sure like I'm my sitch there was a mix of good and bad. I certainly glad you've removed some of the tension. I hope your able to build on this if and when she is ready to talk more!

BITS
SIC


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TAke or leave the advice. But what you are doing doesn't sound like it's working. How bout you do whatever feels right to you...it isn't DBing and isn't working, but oh well. No one said to act like a jerk or ignore your wife and kids...but suddenly becoming Joe Perfect husband and father can be pursuing. You should spend more time with kids....it just doesn't have to be in your wife's face. Just thought I would drop in to this site after a year or two off...just to remember how much this [censored]


You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
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phoenix, good point about the Joe Perfect.

In my validation talk last night, this was discussed. All this time, everything I have been doing was not believed by her, it was all seen as pursuing.

I love it because she brought it up which gave me an opening to show her the changes were not all about her. I told her the truth, that in the beginning the things I was doing were what she thought they were, pursuing, I didn't know what else to do.

I said, "Everything I am doing now, is for me, it makes me feel like a better man,father and husband. Although I want to work on my marriage, I don't have a lot of time for that right now, because I have a lot of work to do on myself".

I did way to much talking, but she did some also. I was always sure to say things like, "yes, your right", "I know,your exactly right", "I agree", " I never saw it that way,thanks for showing me". Most of the time the reactions from me were not fake, she is right.

I was also sure to try and look her in the eye, and show attentive body language. Which in the first minute I needed to fake, but after that it just flowed. It wasn't fake anymore, I was listening, and I was agreeing with her.

I learned a lot about what she was feeling. Not so much now,but in the past. Not only did I go to her just to validate her feelings, and I tried to show her where I was at also, but it got turned around on me. All of a sudden she is telling me about how she felt. I learned a lot.

I was feeling pretty good about the real changes that I had made for myself. After talking with her, I have a lot more work to do. I am glad though, she told me things I would not of seen on my own.

It has always bothered me that I could never see how she tried. (pre-bomb). I have mentioned in the past about the last few times we ML, that I could see her getting teary eyed. I would ask her about it, and she would say,"I don't know,nothing".

Looking at this now, it makes me mad because how am I supposed to know what is wrong with that kind of answer?

I asked her about this, She didn't know either. She knew something was wrong, she just didn't understand what. So she wasn't necessarily holding her feelings in, she didn't understand her feelings. This is where having a validation talk to let her know I understand her feelings, actually turned in to me understanding her feelings.

One thing I would like others comments on, these teary eyed ML occasions were happening only 2 weeks from the bomb. She said she wasn't sure of the reason for the teary eyes. She knew something was wrong, just not sure what. Does this sound like a woman who was planning an escape? I don't wish to jump to any conclusions, but this just jumped out at me as strange feelings for someone who had a plan.


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That's great man!! You see, she was not the tin man. I would say don't over react and continue to grow and learn with this. You have begun however painful the road to converstation


BITS

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I was going to suggest you try to talk to her the other day, I even had the post typed out and was ready to hit submit, but I figured that if you were going to have the talk, that YOU had to decide to do it and when. (I also thought I might get my a$$ chewed by some veterans for suggesting it) I could tell by the tone of your posts that you were either going to implode, or you were going to have the talk. I am glad it went well. So how did you leave the conversation? WHat are you feelings about things now?

Keep it up. I am sure that you feel like a huge monkey has been lifted from your back today.

B.I.T.S.


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Habit,

The last time we ML before the bomb, I cried too! See, I knew something was wrong also! I obviously had no intentions on leaving, but I knew something was wrong. I actually think what she is saying is true and not necessarily the actions of a woman planning her escape.

LIS


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Originally Posted By: habitacker

One thing I would like others comments on, these teary eyed ML occasions were happening only 2 weeks from the bomb. She said she wasn't sure of the reason for the teary eyes. She knew something was wrong, just not sure what. Does this sound like a woman who was planning an escape? I don't wish to jump to any conclusions, but this just jumped out at me as strange feelings for someone who had a plan.


You'll probably never know Habit. Maybe it was something of a subconscious plan of escape or something a plan of escape that she simply didn't want to acknowledge to herself. Who knows? I'd probably let this go now though. What good does it do to continue to wonder about this?

BITS
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nice baby steps habit!!!
Stay positive because there will be tough times. REMEMBER this time and keep that in your front burner so it keeps you going. It will be so easy to get down after that. Remember the hills and valleys.


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Thanks everyone for your posts.

mj144, I don't really remember how we ended the conversation, it was late and I guess it just ended. She said, "That was a nice talk" and we went to bed. Not together, it wasn't that good of a talk. He He.

My feelings now? After the talk I was pretty high, I know something had to be done to release the tension, and something had to be done to try and show her the changes were for real, and about me.

I hope the biggest thing that comes out of the talk would be that she can try to start looking at the changes as real. Because she wasn't. She definately said she doesn't believe them, and even if they are real, how does she know they are not going to come back 10 years from now. I responded with, " I plan on having to work on myself for the rest of my life".

Now that the next day is here, everything is like the talk never happened, back to the same routine. But, that's ok, it is what I expected. I would of liked to see things open up a little, but I will just have to wait and see.

The bad parts of the conversation have set in today. Not really things she said, but reactions she had. I started the conversation with just plain out validating her feelings about not trying and feeling done, I never mentioned D. After validating I said that I really appreciated the time. Meaning she hasn't filed or anything. Her facial expression changed and it looked like she wasn't to happy about it. I think because I started by telling her that I understood how she felt, she thought I was going to tell her that we should procede with the D. I hope not, but this is the vibe I got.

She stood really firm. Like she is dead set in what she was doing. She wants D, She is done, She doesn't want to try. She did not say these things again, but as I did, and validated them, her actions were telling me "Yep, buster, you got it, that's the way it is." She was really showing steel resolve.

All of that was at the beginning of conversation, during the main validation part. As the conversation went on, basically me talking, things seemed to change I think. She would just listen, and then if something hit her, she would tell me something. No arguing or anything like that, just good conversation.

Then I brought up things that I thought happened in our marriage. I didn't want this to turn into a R talk but it did, because of me. I wanted her to know that I understood where my anger was coming from. So I told her about our communication. It stunk. She agreed, but with the look like she had never really thought much about it, but I was right. I saw she wasn't fighting me on any of this, so I kept plugging along.

I then told her, she keeps everything to herself, and I get angry when we don't know what to do communication wise. She seemed to agree. She said she was just the type to say something once, and that should be enough. I validated.

Anyway, I could write what we talked about all night. The point is, She started pretty much sticking to her guns that she was done, and as the conversation went on, she started bringing moments up from the past that bugged her, and stuff like that. I told her I was sorry and that I understand I was doing that, and it was wrong. If it was something I never realized before, I told her, " I am glad you told me, I didn't know that, it will give me one more thing I need to work on about myself.

She would get teary eyed when she talked about stuff. Mainly the stuff that hurt her. By the end of the conversation, she just stood up and said, "That was a nice talk", and that was the end.

I know I would have to get into greater detail, but with what I wrote, does anyone see her letting her guard down during this conversation?

It seemed to me like she had that wall up pretty high to start off with, and maybe the validation through her off, and she started peeking over the top of the wall to see what the heck was going on.


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bomb-9/17/10
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No affair
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