I thought of starting a new thread after experiencing an unusually increased number of conflicts with my H in the last while; and after reading CLs post today, I thought this might be a helpful topic (thanks for the words CL). I'm wondering if anyone else experiences this and can share their insights.
I've grown a lot in the last year and with my depression beginning to lift, I feel finally like (to use SGs words - thanks to you too, for those!) I'm getting my 'groove' back.
My H and I are so much closer than we used to be. We talk; we have date nights; I ask for affection or for him to listen when I need it. There've been so many improvements. However, the area where I still fail is a doosie. I STILL can't (won't?) stay present, functioning and communicating through conflict.
Whenever it begins, I shut down. My brain turns to jelly, anxiety and fear rise, and I leave the room as fast as I can. I feel threatened. I feel scared. I feel angry. But the worst thing is, the conflict rarely gets solved. If it does, it's many frosty, emotionally distant days later. Any CBT strategies miss the mark (in the moment) because my brain is just not in functioning, reasoning mode. I just want to get the h&ll out of there.
What the heck does one do to keep your feet nailed to the floor, your brain working; your voice speaking and just stay there until you work thought it? I'm tired of silence; I'm tired of running.
Is this a pipe dream? Are there any real couples out there who are actually able to have a conflict, and right then and there, talk until they find a solution that's mutually respectful and fulfills both person's needs? Maybe my head's in the clouds. Maybe I'm just wishing on a star. Maybe this is just not the way marriage, or life, works. I'd love to hear everyone's input.
I cannot complain for not receiving from others, that which I've never asked them for.
I am no stranger to the brain-shutting-down-during-conflict dilemma. The good news is that, with work on oneself, it IS possible to get past that automatic reaction.
I found the work of Al Turtle to be groundbreaking on why the brain behaves like that. It's not something you initially have any control over, and has to do with the way our 3-partite brains are formed, and, he reiterates, it's a reaction that always makes sense. He has a website, where he explains the reactions of what he calls The Lizard--the reptilian part of the brain. He also explains how couples can work together to make each other's lizards feel safe so that they can get past feeling "threatened, scared, angry" etc. I think you might find a lot of food for thought--and hope--there.
Congratulations on how far you've come. All the improvements you describe are wonderful. I'm delighted you are getting your groove back!!
I recently came across Al Turtle's work myself and the Lizzard part makes sense to me. Schnarch says it too ( I love Schnarch's approach) in other words. The way I read it and I think that is Sandi is trying to make a point of, is that something like what you describe sounds like an issue of SAFETY. I would call it "FEAR of".
Me and H are not where you are, judging by your description, I struggle still alot and recently, we too, had various incidents of arguments. And no, we didnt solve any of them during our "discussions". It seems we bring it up, disagree and then ... leave it behind us until we revisit and argue again about it. NOT very healthy.
I think that the style of communication duringthe arguments plays a big role of how they weill turn out. We are still on defense/attack mode. I am working on that, trying to do my part and stop sounding as if I am ready to kill him. It isnt easy, especially since I AM ready to kill him most of the times. K
When you are in conflict and feel all these things, what would be the most terrifying thing that could happen?
That's the thing, I don't really know... sometimes I wonder if he's going to hit me, or yell at me, or tell me he hates me and I disgust him because I'm so weak. The look on his face certainly seems like that's a possibility but we've been together for over 18 years. He's never laid a hand on me or ever called me a bad name so I know in my head it's not a likelihood.
I know when I was a little one, our dad used to spank us with a belt from time to time, and if he just used his hand he'd come after us in a rage - but it wasn't an everyday or regular enough pattern that (as I understand it) characterizes true physical abuse. Surely all this couldn't be a reaction to that?
I cannot complain for not receiving from others, that which I've never asked them for.
I am no stranger to the brain-shutting-down-during-conflict dilemma. The good news is that, with work on oneself, it IS possible to get past that automatic reaction.
Well thank heavens for that! I've read bits about how different parts of your brain take over at different points, but I've never read anything of Al Turtle's... I'll definitely do some research there. Thanks for suggesting it.
Originally Posted By: Cyrena
Congratulations on how far you've come. All the improvements you describe are wonderful. I'm delighted you are getting your groove back!!
Thanks Cyrena, you and everyone here on the board have been such a help and support. This is such a safe haven to be, when everything else in the world (to borrow from 'The Weepies') "spins madly 'round".
I cannot complain for not receiving from others, that which I've never asked them for.
I think that the style of communication duringthe arguments plays a big role of how they weill turn out. We are still on defense/attack mode. I am working on that, trying to do my part and stop sounding as if I am ready to kill him. It isnt easy, especially since I AM ready to kill him most of the times.
I agree completely. I have to remember too, that there was a time where H and I wouldn't even let ourselves get to the point where there even was conflict. I think that's where we'd gotten to when I first started posting last spring. We'd gotten that far apart emotionally and mentally. I guess maybe because we intuitively knew that at that point, we wouldn't be able to handle the conflict; wouldn't know how to communicate our way through it fairly so that we both compromised a bit; both got some of our needs met enough that it felt 'resolved'.
So, maybe although we are in conflict more nowadays, and are not handling it well, maybe it still shows that we have moved forward to some extent. Maybe those steps forward are just smaller ones than I expected.
Regarding that defense/attack mode you mentioned with you and your H, I think CL was just talking about that pattern in his M. (? forgive if I'm not remembering correctly, CL?) He's been reading 'Hold me Tight' by Sue Johnson and I think there was something in there that addresses that pattern. Have you read that book?
I cannot complain for not receiving from others, that which I've never asked them for.
My H and I are so much closer than we used to be. We talk; we have date nights; I ask for affection or for him to listen when I need it. There've been so many improvements. However, the area where I still fail is a doosie. I STILL can't (won't?) stay present, functioning and communicating through conflict.
Whenever it begins, I shut down. My brain turns to jelly, anxiety and fear rise, and I leave the room as fast as I can. I feel threatened. I feel scared. I feel angry. But the worst thing is, the conflict rarely gets solved. If it does, it's many frosty, emotionally distant days later. Any CBT strategies miss the mark (in the moment) because my brain is just not in functioning, reasoning mode. I just want to get the h&ll out of there.
What the heck does one do to keep your feet nailed to the floor, your brain working; your voice speaking and just stay there until you work thought it? I'm tired of silence; I'm tired of running.
FMV,
You're caught up in being hard on yourself because you have these emotional reactons. Think about specific actions or thoughts you can change that might begin to break your avoidance patterns.
Do you have faith in yourself that you can break these patterns? If so, then experiment with making changes, and see what works, and continue to modify as-needed. If not, then that needs to be addressed (lack of faith).
I think you need to think in terms of smaller steps to work yourself out of this. Staying with a conflict while it's occurring might be too big a step for now. It sounds like your H is a safe person to practice being assertive with.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
That's the thing, I don't really know... sometimes I wonder if he's going to hit me, or yell at me, or tell me he hates me and I disgust him because I'm so weak. The look on his face certainly seems like that's a possibility but we've been together for over 18 years. He's never laid a hand on me or ever called me a bad name so I know in my head it's not a likelihood.
I know when I was a little one, our dad used to spank us with a belt from time to time, and if he just used his hand he'd come after us in a rage - but it wasn't an everyday or regular enough pattern that (as I understand it) characterizes true physical abuse. Surely all this couldn't be a reaction to that?
Do you relate your H as being an authority figure over you in the sense that your father was? I got whipped with a belt, too, but it never slowed me down from standing up to any man I had a conflict with. I didn't see it as physical abuse back then and it sure didn't hurt my self-esteem. But, I think your feelings go back to you feeling unworthy. Maybe subconsciously you think you should be treated badly by your H, IDK.
I bet your H wishes with all his heart that his W had more spunk and would not cow-down whenever there was a conflict. Have you ever considered that that could be the reason he gets more frustrated? I could see why he would get angry for you not holding your ground and acting like a whipped pup. Maybe he pushes to see how much you'll take before you finally say "ENOUGH" and stand up to him in a disagreement, conflict, or whatever.
If you can visualize the worst fight that could happen.....and then visualize yourself over-coming with strength and confidence....then perhaps it will begin to take hold in the real circumstances. Be prepared with a back-up statement that you've memorized (since your mind begins to shut down during conflict). Play scenarios in your mind and how you would deal with it. Self-esteem is in our minds. That's where you have to begin.
((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Morning all, thanks again for your comments and insights. Your suggestions are all excellent - love the rehearsing scenarios in my mind, Sandi; and thinking in smaller steps CL feels like a weight off my shoulders. Between your feedback and my appt with IC yesterday I feel renewed courage and optimism. The depression continues to ease, thank heavens. I'm so blessed with a doctor, therapist, and you all - who were able to catch me before I fell too far. Many, many thanks for the hugs and kindness.
So. I'm setting goals for this week. Just two so it's not too overwhelming or easy to forget: 1) MUCH more patience with myself, and 2) practicing what I want to say BEFORE I need to say it!
Will keep trying my best, and keep you posted. Hugs and warm thoughts to you all, FMV.
I cannot complain for not receiving from others, that which I've never asked them for.
I agree completely. I have to remember too, that there was a time where H and I wouldn't even let ourselves get to the point where there even was conflict. I think that's where we'd gotten to when I first started posting last spring. We'd gotten that far apart emotionally and mentally. I guess maybe because we intuitively knew that at that point, we wouldn't be able to handle the conflict; wouldn't know how to communicate our way through it fairly so that we both compromised a bit; both got some of our needs met enough that it felt 'resolved'.