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A Message from Michele
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Re: Need Insight IV [Re: InAPickle] #2123290
01/25/11 02:09 PM
01/25/11 02:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 678
Jacksonville, FL
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InAPickle Offline OP
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InAPickle  Offline OP
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Jacksonville, FL
Journal update.

Back in the fall during one of our little "talks" about her divorced roommates idea.

W says, 'It's not like I'll be going to Ohio all the time to see OM"

I just checked on line and she's planning a trip in February.


Me 53 XW 50
M 18 Years +2
S14 D19
Bomb 10-24-10
Served 1-27-11
Mediate 4-21-11
Civil D Final 6-2-11
No church anullment
"A man is not finished when he is defeated, he is finished when he quits."
Re: Need Insight IV [Re: InAPickle] #2123299
01/25/11 02:37 PM
01/25/11 02:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,698
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Truegritter Offline
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Truegritter  Offline
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Pickle

What you are feeling is natural.

Anger is natural.

You tried these tactics/techniques and you are not seeing results.

Disapointing at first and now angry for what she is continuing to choose and how it makes you feel.

Completely understand that. Investing in timelines is likewise as futile.

No one knows whether this is a long term thing or a short term thing.

No one can tell you that you know why?

Because the only one that controls whether your W wakes up is her.

I happen to believe there is not much you can do to speed up her process through this but you can damnn sure make it longer or f@ck it up entirely by your own actions.

You only control you and your choices.

You can choose to react to this with anger or let your emotion subside.

Choose what is best for you and your family.

Use your anger as a shield not a sword.

WTF does that mean?

If you let your anger dictate you here you will be defined by it and it will rule your life.

Hurt people HURT people. If you wish to be one of those people then wield away your sword.

Shield? As I have said many times in my posts your pain will guide you through this.

What is your anger telling you right now?


My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
Re: Need Insight IV [Re: Truegritter] #2123303
01/25/11 02:54 PM
01/25/11 02:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,299
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Coach Offline
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Coach  Offline
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There is plenty you can do to influence your wife. It's not angry, immoral, being an A$$ or wrong. A predator is attacking your wife and family. Do you like sharing your wife with another man? Is what you are doing lining up with your core values? There is a reason you are angry. Make sure your actions line up with your values, decide on a healthy & productive plan and then act. (BTW anger is a good sign from your wife, it means she is still interested in you.)

Look around here on DB, do you seen any man with his wife in a affair getting anywhere? To quote my Greek FIL, "There is a hole in the soup."

Sure hope those books you ordered showed up.


M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12
Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Re: Need Insight IV [Re: Truegritter] #2123312
01/25/11 03:28 PM
01/25/11 03:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 678
Jacksonville, FL
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InAPickle Offline OP
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InAPickle  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 678
Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
What is your anger telling you right now?


My anger is telling me to stick it to her, 'cause being mister nice guy has yielded no results. She's gone ahead with her D plans and full steam ahead with EA. But my anger is not going to control my actions.

In Dobson's book, "Love Must Be Tough" he says that in some cases the only thing left to do is to create a crisis. That's what I intend to do, nothing terrible, just give her the realization that her dream fantasy of househusband taking care of the yard and the kids, while she carries on with OM is not going to happen.

And when D17 asks why: "Daughter, you know that civil divorce is just a piece of paper and that in our faith (unless mommy gets an annulment) I will always be her husband in the eyes of God. I am risking you hating me for telling you this, but you must know that I have sound reason for not wanting to live with mommy. For the past six months she has been giving to another man what is strictly reserved for her husband, and she continues to this day and has no intention to stop. So I cannot be with someone who shows such disrespect for me and contempt for her wedding promises. I'm very, very sorry."


Me 53 XW 50
M 18 Years +2
S14 D19
Bomb 10-24-10
Served 1-27-11
Mediate 4-21-11
Civil D Final 6-2-11
No church anullment
"A man is not finished when he is defeated, he is finished when he quits."
Re: Need Insight IV [Re: InAPickle] #2123343
01/25/11 05:30 PM
01/25/11 05:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,698
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Truegritter Offline
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Truegritter  Offline
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Pickle

I understand your feelings and what your anger is telling you.

I also understand tough love tactics as I employed them in my sitch.

You must decide for yourself.

Then decide from the results of those decisions.

One piece of advice re: the kids.

Keep them out of it. They should not IMO be part of your exposure tactics.

Your job is not to repair any relationship between your W and the kids.

Your job is not to damage it.

Originally Posted By: Coach
Look around here on DB, do you seen any man with his wife in a affair getting anywhere?


This is absolutely true. Your M and any chance at reconciliation will not begin until her A ends.

Eventually you have to come to a place of love and compassion with what has happened to you...

Whether your W comes back or not.

That being the healthy goal. For you and your family.

Weigh it against what you decide to do now.


My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
Re: Need Insight IV [Re: Truegritter] #2123349
01/25/11 06:00 PM
01/25/11 06:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,694
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TimeHeals Offline
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Quote:
Your job is not to repair any relationship between your W and the kids.

Your job is not to damage it.


True. A parent's job is to protect their children, set a good example, and help raise them to be good, responsible citizens.

Do you think lying to them helps them feel 'safe'?

Where do you draw the line? When does witholding information begin to do more harm than good? When does it set a bad example?

These are all valid questions, and context is important.

This isn't some black-and-white thing. Making these judgements requires practical wisdom.

[added by dbmod: exposure, including to children is not recommended.]

Last edited by dbmod; 01/25/11 09:52 PM.

M-47,W-40,No kids
D-filed 5/27/2010
Piecing - 10/21/2010
-=Soon to be banned=-
Re: Need Insight IV [Re: Truegritter] #2123359
01/25/11 07:01 PM
01/25/11 07:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 678
Jacksonville, FL
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InAPickle Offline OP
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InAPickle  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Jacksonville, FL
Of course, I will consult with the atty before doing anything.

You're right, however tempting it is, it would be a mistake for me to expose EA to kids (but boy does W squirm when I threaten to). Think I'll threaten again whenever she tries to push my buttons just for the satisfaction of making her squirm.

Like I said before, the woman I am married to is not the woman I married. I will not miss the present version at all.

I believe we have to part ways for there to be any chance that she will come to any realization. Besides, it will do me wonders to get away from this version.

Yes - the children will suffer and will have to make major lifestyle sacrifices, but I will not lose sleep over that. W has painted me into corner, and these are the consequences of her choices.


Me 53 XW 50
M 18 Years +2
S14 D19
Bomb 10-24-10
Served 1-27-11
Mediate 4-21-11
Civil D Final 6-2-11
No church anullment
"A man is not finished when he is defeated, he is finished when he quits."
Re: Need Insight IV [Re: InAPickle] #2123424
01/25/11 10:04 PM
01/25/11 10:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,050
California
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angel61 Offline
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Pickle, my H and your W seem to be twins in how they see this whole OP thing. Cake eaters to the max. Sunday afternoon my H and I had one of our talks. I promised myself that next time he brings up R talk, I will keep quiet, but did notÖ..This is how it went (summarized):

H: I feel so stuck. I made a mistake. I am in a gray zone. You canít accept our situation. Why canít we have a legal S but still live together. For our Dís sake, so she still has 2 parents. Need the piece of legality to know you have accepted the end of our M.

Pickle, sounds familiar, eh?

Me: What for? So that you can pursue OW without guilt? I donít need a piece of paper. I accept you donít love me. I donít accept that your never did, nor that there is no hope for us. ButÖno way will I live together with you while weíre S and you are pursuing OW. That will be too painful for me. If thatís the case, lets just D completely and live our separate lives, and I could move on. Another thing: How abnormal could the situation get? Us being together with you pursuing OW Ė what will that teach our D? How will she feel about that? That it is acceptable to have that kind of situation? She will learn to be cynical before her time.

He also kept on saying that it was all his mistake, that at first he blamed me for everything but at the end of the day, realized he was just justifying his actions by saying itís my fault, and that ultimately he had to face his own mistakes (wow, that sure seems like a moment of lucidity!). I asked him then about how mature adults are supposed to handle their mistakes. Arenít we supposed to try to correct them? Arenít we supposed to suffer the consequences of our own mistakes? (In other words, donít make other people suffer from your mistakes!)

Pickle, just sharing this with you because these were my reactions to a very similar situation. Maybe the wrong thing to say or do, I dunno, but I think it made my H see a few things my way. He did not commit to anything during our convo, but since yesterday, I have noticed a change in him. He has suddenly become friendlier to me, called me up a couple of times these past 2 days, did not pursue the S topic.

One thing I would say to you though: Control your anger. And be careful on how you talk to your kids about this. I do not believe in lying to them, but neither do I think they should be exposed to the whole sordid details.

My D has known from before, and she is only 12 years old. I struggle in my interactions with her to make sure that she does not think bad of her Dad and at the same time letting her know that this is not an acceptable situation. I speak to my therapist on the best way for me to deal with her and she agrees that being honest with her is good if she seems able to understand. And she seems to, but what do I know? I can only pray that she is not being damaged too much by all this. She has asked me not to leave her Dad, and that she believes all of this will pass, even the pain, and that Dad is allowed to make mistakes as he is only human! I told her that I will try but may only have tolerance for up to a certain period or wrongdoings.

The way you are thinking of explaining to D17 is too inflammatory. If I were you, when you are ready to be honest with her, I would say tell her something to the effect that her Mom has changed and wants to leave the M because she has fallen out of love with you, she is interested in another person, and that you still want to keep the M and will keep on trying.


Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18
Bomb: 6/26/10
EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ???
11/5/11 Retrouvaille
Finally piecing....
Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
Re: Need Insight IV [Re: angel61] #2123435
01/25/11 10:44 PM
01/25/11 10:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 678
Jacksonville, FL
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InAPickle Offline OP
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InAPickle  Offline OP
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Posts: 678
Jacksonville, FL
Angel61, I know you are right.

Sometimes when I am posting, I'm just venting or ranting.
The talk with D17 I posted earlier was role playing, a fantasy of how I am feeling and how I feel about keeping the dirty secret.

But you know something. I've got a feeling the kids already have an idea of what's going on just from hints and comments I have let slip out and been unable to stifle.

When W went away to visit OM the weekend of 12/18, D17 was also out of town with a friend, so it was just me and S12. I asked him, "Where did mommy say she was going this weekend?" I was curious what she told the kids. S12 said she said she went to visit old friends from her time in the military. I responded, "Oh, is that what she told you?" There's a implication in that response I couldn't control. It was a half truth, W and exH did serve together.

The other morning after the fight I had with W, D17 came to the kitchen for breakfast. It was just me and her at the moment. She had overheard some of the previous night's squabble. Still hurting and angry, I couldn't control myself again; I said to her, "I'm sorry about last night, but your mother's done me wrong, real wrong." Now she could construe that one way, because W had already she wants to D me, or she could wonder if that's the only thing making pops so angry.

So I won't tell them the dirty secret.

But darn! I'v been hurting and angry so long I so enjoy watching W squirm!


Me 53 XW 50
M 18 Years +2
S14 D19
Bomb 10-24-10
Served 1-27-11
Mediate 4-21-11
Civil D Final 6-2-11
No church anullment
"A man is not finished when he is defeated, he is finished when he quits."
Re: Need Insight IV [Re: InAPickle] #2123601
01/26/11 04:08 AM
01/26/11 04:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 678
Jacksonville, FL
I
InAPickle Offline OP
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InAPickle  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 678
Jacksonville, FL
Nothing but silent treatment tonight.
Squirm baby squirm!

So I picked up my guitar and downloaded the chords of ELO's "Evil Woman" and practiced it much of the dinner hour.

You know they notice everything.

"Such an evil woman....You're an evil woman"

I'm about to get served; why not have some fun with it?


Me 53 XW 50
M 18 Years +2
S14 D19
Bomb 10-24-10
Served 1-27-11
Mediate 4-21-11
Civil D Final 6-2-11
No church anullment
"A man is not finished when he is defeated, he is finished when he quits."
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