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A Message from Michele
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Re: TAMF's Christmas Miracle? [Re: angel61] #2121472
01/19/11 01:32 AM
01/19/11 01:32 AM
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First ... TAMF ... what Alb said. Period. Read it twice.

Augtan,

Actions not words. You just do ... you do not need to send you H an email telling him what you are going to do, you just do it. Capiche?

Originally Posted By: augtan
And isn't sorry enough to come home and make it work.
This is dangerously close to being an expectation and letting the kids get in the middle and act as objects of guilt. Not good, IMO.

Originally Posted By: augtan
he can see the girls on your terms, when it works for you and them, and he can pick them up and take them somewhere neutral, not his apartment, not your house, not with OW, somewhere fun for them. You are in control, period, make him well aware of that, don't back down, you are strong!! Make it about you and the girls and not at all about him!!

No. Quite frankly, IF he pursues a relationship with the girls TAMF does not control it. At all. Nor should she. He is a wayward spouse not a child to be punished. And yes, his choices do affect his children but he is still their father and from what I know, a decent one. They are not pawns or prizes to be doled out when he behaves the way he "should". The marriage and his relationship as their father are two different things. TAMF, set your healthy boundaries around your home FOR YOU, IF he pursues the girls. And although it should go without saying, and maybe it does, do NOT ever bad mouth him in front of them or to them. I don't care how much you are "friends" with your daughters, as parents we have a responsibility to parent, not friend, our kids ... and that includes acting respectfully towards their other parent. Not because they deserve it, not because of something they have or have not done. Because that's what healthy DBers do, right?

Peace
PEI


Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
Re: TAMF's Christmas Miracle? [Re: Albuquerque] #2121473
01/19/11 01:34 AM
01/19/11 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted By: Albuquerque

I'm trying to be subtle here but hopefully my point is coming across wink


Subtle like a Mack truck. I like your style.

smile


Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
Re: TAMF's Christmas Miracle? [Re: angel61] #2121476
01/19/11 01:41 AM
01/19/11 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: angel61
A, my thought processes echoes what you did. I told H that if he chooses D, he has no control over us and I could go where I wat to, far away if need be, to live my own life and move forward. Some people say that this is bitterness, not forgiving, and punishing. But sometimes, it may be the best course for the LBS, and makes the WAS see that they cannot have their cake and eat it too.


angel,

Careful with this.

You may or may not have the legal right to move when custody and visitation get factored in.

"make the WAS see ..." oooooh ... what happened to doing things to be true to ourselves instead of to get reactions?

Bitterness? Maybe. Not forgiving? Most likely. Punishing? Absolutely, you even go on to say so. You know what else it is? Running. Running from the pain and difficulty and hard work that it takes to truly heal. Detachment by distance (hmm, that might be a new one guys!) is not necessarily loving detachment. What happens if his job transfers him and he moves to your new city for work or to see D13 ... do you uproot and run again?

What about D13 and her NEED to have her father in her life? Doesn't moving away make you the one that stopped the interaction, haven't you then interferred in the relationship?

FTR, I'm not talking about getting healthy, reevaluating your life and deciding from a healthy, healed place to start over or go back to school or move back to your home state.

Food for thought ... sorry for the small hi-jack TAMF ...
Peace
PEI


Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
Re: TAMF's Christmas Miracle? [Re: PEI] #2121487
01/19/11 02:12 AM
01/19/11 02:12 AM
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Augtan Offline
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I respectfully disagree, TAMF's H chose to leave and he hasn't contacted the girls since she told him to leave her alone. Therefore, if he wants to see them he needs to do it when it is right for the girls, not for him!! That is all I was saying, that is isn't about him, it is about them. I do think that when you do what he has done or what any of these WAS or MLCer's do, they are not good parents in this time of their lives, it all goes together, if he is accepting not seeing them because she says so, then he doesn't really care to see them, NO ONE would keep me from my kids no matter what.

That is my opinion, good parents don't hurt their kids regardless of what is going on inside them, they are parents first, he is not in his right mind, and is not being a good parent. She has to be in control of what is best for her kids, cause H sure isn't, someone has to be the parent and make it right for these kids, that is all I meant, that is what being in charge and being a parent is all about. He is not in a place to make proper judgement calls and she is, therefore it is in her control and she needs to have boundries about what is going to be appropriate for the kids and what isn't. And, I do think that a parent behaving inappropriate has little to no rights.

If they want to see him, I would let them, but it would be within what I think is right, good, and appropriate for them, cause I wouldn't trust him to know that right now, IMO, having an affair is not just about the marriage, it is about the family, and a lack of respect for all involoved. When you have kids you give up your right to make it just about you or just about the marriage, everyone is involoved and everyone suffers. You can keep your kids out of the adult problems and let them be kids, but in reality they know what is going on and it is their "forever family" that is affected, we can move on and find others, we can marry someone else, but that means their family is forever broken up, they have to go to different houses, we dont', they are the ones who lose the most, so it isn't just about the marriage, it is about the family and that is what these MLC'ers and WAW's don't get. I am all about a relationship with their Dad, just not on the terms that involves the kids being put second to an OW or anything else. He needs to have his own relationship with his kids, one that is appropriate, that is all I meant.

A


Me-40
XH-44
T-21
M-18
Div-19 mo.
D-18,S-15,D-11
Bomb-7/07 EA,PA
Mvd out-9/07-to give me space
mvd back-12/07
mvd out-7/08
back with OW since 2/08
OW broke it off-1/10
in and out of tunnel and our life since!!
Re: TAMF's Christmas Miracle? [Re: Augtan] #2121562
01/19/11 08:21 AM
01/19/11 08:21 AM
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Hmmmm. Reading your sitch. AND in light of what I have learned over the past 2 yrs, just reading it happening to someone else makes me want to scream WAKE UP! I am sorry but it seems as if he is playing you and the other woman. Have you thought maybe the other woman is pushing for a divorce from you and he isnt ready for that SO maybe he wants a backup plan. Listen if a guy wants to be with a woman he WILL. If he wants to be with his family he WILL. There is NOT anything stoppin him. SHE, whoever she is, interrupted YOUR life. Please stop doing this to yourself, DO NOT tell him you WILL wait, he is checking to make sure you WILL do just that. He is playing right now and he isnt done, OR he would be FULLY committed to coming home. He is GOOD at what he is doing. I am not saying he doesnt love you or want his family to work someday. THINK.....if you want something dont you go after it full force? This is his family for crying out loud, You dont have to answer ANY of his questions unless its about your children. He knows you are hanging on, he knows you love him and want your family to work, and he knows just how much line to throw you. Until he REALLY wants to committ to his marriage again, please do yourself a favor and pretend like he is GONE! I dont mean to sound mean but dont let him drag you along any longer. Sounds like that man is still very much confused, or being given some ultimatums and he doesnt know which way to turn. UNTIL he figures it out, and is SUPER honeset and ready......MOVE ON like there is NO TOMORROW!
While doing ALL this please TRUST IN THE LORD, turn to him for peace and guidance.

Praying for your family,
Sunshine


_________________________________________
M:42
H:40
S:18
M:20yrs/together 21yrs
Bomb:9/08 ILYBNILWY
Sep:9/18/08 "ow" :25
Filed:11/18/08
D:12/8/08
M:Different 26 yr. old 7/09.
Newborn 4/10
Re: TAMF's Christmas Miracle? [Re: sunshinelewis] #2121613
01/19/11 04:00 PM
01/19/11 04:00 PM
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HI TAMF-

some people will probably be shocked to see me back here... and I will only say that I was kindof skulking around, read your sitch, got kindof pissed and wanted to give my two cents.

cut him loose. get on with your life. don't let him know that you have an open door for him, but keep one open if that is what you want to do. his text to you was friggin infuriating. what is he. a 15 year old girl? to say not to date but understands but hang in there for me girl! what a load. he is a cake eating MF. you need to force his hand. this is a poker game. I will tell you my story and I will say that I have been reluctant to come back here for fear of "jinxing" the progress I have made but I think my realization is that there is no "cure" you are never "there" its all a work in progress... I will be "divorce busting" for the rest of my life... I just hope its more positive like "marriage building".

you can go back and read all the craziness. but here it is in short:

I spent 13 years post college going to medical school, doing a general surgery residency then a cardiothoracic fellowship. I met the person who I thought was the love of my life (still do) in medical school, we married a month before starting 9 years of hellish training. had two beautiful twin boys in 2002. finally finished my training, took dream job and then everything went to absolute s$&t. my wife left, took the boys 4 hours from me for what was a "year" to chase a "dream opportunity". I was now alone in a town in job that turned out to be a nightmare. my new partners were basically trying to ruin me, I was not doing any cases, and my skills were waning and thus my professional life was also terrible. I spent the fall of last year in a terrible fog. I lost 20 pounds and spent my weekends not on call driving 8 hours to see my boys. my wife had a male friend there that I found she was texting back and forth literally thousands of times a day. I was completely heartbroken, lost. I spent a lot of time on this site, got lots of 2x4s upside the head from Jack, Fig, Cat... lots of support from Bworl, Mach, Eric... was at a major crossroads in my life last winter and spring. I was going to abandon a career that I had spent my life learning to do-- be a heart surgeon. what many people here I think could not quite grasp was this was not just a job. it was a part of who I was--it was what I did. but still I wanted to be with my boys. eventually on the day I was going to move to this other town (where she was not working) to take a huge pay cut and do something that was going to be miserable for me one of my partners quit-- opening the way for me here to continue to try and be a heart surgeon. I decided that I would stay and do what I was meant to do and fight for my boys. at that point I just wanted my boys in the same town where I worked. I actually sued my wife for custody (really she had somewhat abducted my kids to some degree. she was starting to make it hard for me to see them. I was the sole bread winner and I wanted the boys to be living where I worked). I mentally moved on. I got strong. I made new friends. Started going bowling. I took my boys on a vacation to the beach. I finally realized that I could have a happy life without her, though it was not ideal. It was a the life of a healed amputee. but I was sleeping, gaining weight back, and I had some hope.
A number of things happened though all at once and it was all pretty remarkable. I passed my cardiothoracic boards-- somehow. This solidified my job as a heart surgeon. the other a##hole partner quit leaving me as the now busiest heart surgeon in town. my wife agreed to move back down. I had to spend thousands of dollars on movers and fixing her car but I got my boys back into town with me. I put her in my house and rented a small apartment. I put no pressure on her. I told her that I would support her in this town-- that I just wanted my boys in my life. I will say one important thing here was that I had a lawsuit against her... which eventually I dropped. I had been supporting her life away from me monetarily but by the end of spring I stopped. I made things very uncomfortable for her. But this was all because I was focused on getting my boys back into the same town as me.
After she moved back down here we started spending more and more time together. Things were getting better all the time and we decided to all move in together. that was back in august. i rented a place that had a carriage house that I could live in if things didn't work out.
Well its 6 months later and we are still together. I see my boys every day and put them to bed at night. to say its a vast improvement from last year is an understatement. Last year was a nightmare. Every day is like a dream now. Work is good and life is good.
I made a lot of changes within myself. I am much more attentive to my wife and my family. I am not critical. I try to be levelheaded and kind. I am much more social. I have many more friends than I ever did. I no longer take anything for granted. Are things perfect with us? No. but it seems better all the time. we are committed to communicating with one and other the things that bother us. dustups no longer turn into huge fights... I have learned she's got a lot of baggage from her childhood, her relationships with her parents and her father... never feeling loved for who she is and in fact still has doubts that real love can exist but I'm trying to show her. Our sex life is pretty much non-existent which is upsetting to me but I'm just trying to be patient as she says she has a lot of things that she is working out. All I will say is that we sleep in the same bed and most nights she falls asleep with her head on my chest. That would not have happened last year so I'll take it as progress.

my boys do not seem affected by any of it and they were just young enough I think that it will just be one of those weird memories that one day they will ask me about...

I did get a very good lawyer who helped me through this process. there were a number of crazy dates at the courthouse where she said she was going to move back, then did for a week and then bolted. I thought I had dropped the case (but he didn't) things like that.

So I would not say "Divorce Busted!". I don't think that I will ever say that, since as long as two people are both alive I think that nothing is ever guaranteed... a relationship between two people is like a fragile little plant- not a weed that can grown through anything unconditionally. love is not, as the story said, never having to say you are sorry. I don't know what it is. I know I love my wife though. I'm in love with her too. I know she loves me. Not sure yet if she is in love with me but my sense is she is working out a number of issues still and all I can do is continue to love her and show her what true love is and maybe some day she'll come around and want to jump my bones in bed again. oh yea we take showers together now too which is something we never did before.

so that's my story. I want you to read through the lines and perhaps see that it is important to do the impossible-- detach, and by doing that I think it is important to detach your happiness away from the concept that this person is the only one who can give it to you. but I think more importantly, if you ever want the person back, they need to feel what it is like to lose you. they need to FEEL YOUR DETATCHMENT. You need to do something to shake up the limbo. I'm not saying he will come back.. but I'm pretty sure he's going to keep messing with your head as long as he knows he's got you as a backup plan. its incredidbly insulting to you and disrespectful. if he knows your door is open then he knows he can cake eat all day and THAT SHOULD NOT STAND! just like John Goodman said in the Big Lebowski.

It angers me. for you. and I don't even know you. but I know you, you know?

and finally-- hello to all you peeps out there again. thank you for all you did to help me through my terrible time.


Best,

Brad

Re: TAMF's Christmas Miracle? [Re: bradley11] #2121639
01/19/11 06:42 PM
01/19/11 06:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 193
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Augtan Offline
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Posts: 193
Brad...I totally remember your story, I think we were here around the same time and both kinda took a break. I have been back the last few weeks and it has been helpful.

I love what you wrote and needed to hear it for me too and what Sunshine wrote hit home with me too. Thanks to both of you!!

A


Me-40
XH-44
T-21
M-18
Div-19 mo.
D-18,S-15,D-11
Bomb-7/07 EA,PA
Mvd out-9/07-to give me space
mvd back-12/07
mvd out-7/08
back with OW since 2/08
OW broke it off-1/10
in and out of tunnel and our life since!!
Re: TAMF's Christmas Miracle? [Re: bradley11] #2121682
01/19/11 08:33 PM
01/19/11 08:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 346
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TAMF Offline OP
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Posts: 346
To everyone who has given a response to my post - Thank you very much. It was hard to take, honestly. You feel a little beat up when everyone is telling you that your H is a jacka*@ and you are doing nothing but enabling him to do what he is doing.

I cried, because you are all right.

I cried, because it's not fair that H does this to me.

I cried, because my H is a really good man and I know he loves me and loves his girls. he is just in a really miserable cross road in his life. and to KNOW this man and see him go through this crisis is heartbreaking.

I cried, because I can't fix him.

I cried, because I really might not be here when he gets through this crisis. I just don't know.

Then I stopped crying and felt better. I can still detach without being angry. I can still detach and let him find his own relationship with his girls. I am strong enough to move past this. I am strong enough to take all of the 2x4s and learn from each of you. Because not one of you is telling me to do something that you have not already done and gone through yourself.

Thank you all again for your heartfelt words of wisdom. I am listening.


TAMF
m:41
xh:41
T: 20
M: 15
D: 16
D: 14
Bomb dropped: 7/3/10
separated: 7/15/10
H moved in to new apt. with OW: 7/1/11
divorced: 8/26/12
Re: TAMF's Christmas Miracle? [Re: TAMF] #2121730
01/19/11 10:34 PM
01/19/11 10:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
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beatrice Offline
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Tamf - to use Snodderly's wise words - I think you need to leave it to the man upstairs now. You have done what you can. Let go, and let God . . . . That is true detachment.

But it is tough, I do know!

Re: TAMF's Christmas Miracle? [Re: beatrice] #2121798
01/20/11 03:40 AM
01/20/11 03:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 412
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Albuquerque Offline
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(((TAMF)))
This isn't easy. We're here for you.


"Love me when I least deserve it, for that is when I need it the most"

M18
Me39,H42
D16
Bomb 1/10
Moved out 3/10
OW 6/10
H wants to R,OW gone 11/10
H moves back 5/11
H wants to wear rings again 9/11
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